Coal miners say they were forced to attend Romney event and donate

reply to post by Bilk22


Go to the first source, radio host David Blomquist;
WWVA News Radio - Highlands Hot Topic

"Yes, we were in fact told that the Romney event was mandatory and would be without pay, that the hours spent there would need to be made up my non-salaried employees outside of regular working hours, with the only other option being to take a pay cut for the equivalent time," the employees told Blomquist. "Yes, letters have gone around with lists of names of employees who have not attended or donated to political events."

"I realize that many people in this area and elsewhere would love to have my job or my benefits," one worker explained. "And our bosses do not hesitate in reminding us of this. However, I can not agree with these callers and my supervisors, who are saying that just because you have a good job, that you should have to work any day for free on almost no notice without your consent."

"We do not appreciate being intimidated into exchanging our time for nothing. I heard one of your callers saying that Murray employees are well aware of what they are getting into upon hire, or that they are informed that a percentage of their income will go to political donations. I can not speak for that caller, but this is news for me. We merely find out how things work by experience."

Blomquist also spoke with Moore over the allegations;

"There were no workers that were forced to attend the event," Moore said. "We had managers that communicated to our work force that the attendance at the Romney event was mandatory, but no one was forced to attend the event. We had a pre-registration list. And employees were asked to put their names on a pre-registration list because they could not get into the event unless they were pre-registered and had a name tag to enter the premises."

"What about not getting paid for an eight-hour day?" Blomquist wondered. "If the mine was shut down for the visit, I understand, but wouldn't it be fair -- let's use the word 'fair' -- to still pay these individuals for that day? I mean, it wasn't their fault they weren't working."

"Our management people wanted to attend the event and we could not have people underground during Romney's visit," Moore insisted.

"But why not still pay then their wage for that day?" Blomquist pressed.

"By federal election law, we could not pay people to attend the event," Moore replied. "And we did not want anyone to come back and see where anyone had been paid for that day."

"I'm not saying pay then to attend the event, I'm saying, 'Hey look, we have to close down the mine, if you want to attend this event, that's fine, but you're still going to get a day's pay for the work that you would have done,'" Blomquist pointed out. "Why not do that?"

"As a private employer, it was our decision and we made the decision not to pay the people," the Murray chief financial officer said.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
This rally stunt was offensive on two levels. The first was the absurdity of the miners, covered in soot, arranged behind Romney. Did they just crawl out of a mine? If anything, it just looked comical.

The second is a little more serious. Where were their rights? Forced to attend a rally by their employer, and not paid for it. Obviously, we used to have unions to protect against these sorts of abuses. But that was then. Circulating memos that named those miners who refused to partake is disgusting.

And the Unions do the same thing to the miners when the Democrat politician comes to town. The two party system needs to change, IMHO.

Yes, i think it's called a political Dog & Pony Show.

BTW, right now it's the very cheap price of natural gas that is shutting down

coal fired power plants and replacing them with - higher profit margin -

natural gas power plants from GE and Siemens.

Let the shareholders decide.

Higher profit margins translate into higher share price for the stock.


Natural gas is also cleaner to burn. It's a win - win.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Unions aren't employers, outside of their small office staff. On the contrary, unions will often pay it's members to attend functions or to protest.

This was a company (Murray Energy) telling the employees of one of it's mines (Century Mines) to attend this rally without pay.

If I choose to join a union, that is going to fight for my benefits, than that is my choice, and if my union asks me to attend a rally, that is also my choice. I've never once heard of an employee of a company being fired for not attending a union rally.

This is a case of an employer taking advantage of its employee's.

And the company did not force them to attend without pay either, except for a few managers that seem to have spoken out of school. Whenever a presidential candidate, on either side, visits a company it shuts down for that day: GMC, Lockheed, whatever. Of course no one gets payed that day, if you work by the hour.

When I was on active duty, I was forced with many others to pose for an Obama photo op when I was against it. All of those soldiers and Marines who pose behind the POTUS usually are ordered to be there. I'd never met a troop who wouldn't rather have a day off.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by queenannie38

 

The idea that we have to keep an industry afloat because people would lose their jobs irritates me. Yeah, it would really suck for people to have to lose their jobs, but that doesn't mean that we should keep using dirty coal and a dangerous jobs around just for the sake of the unemployment rate. The reasoning is flawed.

here's the thing about that. Pretty much all the studies on the amount of CO2 released from coal and released from natural gas is skewed by whatever interest is funding the study. From coal, it completely depends on what type of coal you are burning. Lignite and Subbituminous coals come from the strip mines in the west (Wyoming, the Dakotas, etc). These coals have lower btu and are the "dirtiest" coal. This type though is the cheapest to mine as the seams are huge and they don't have to dig down too far to get it.

Bituminous coal is higher in btu than the other two (still considerd a "dirty" , soft coal) has a higher sulfur content and is slightly more expensive to mine. However, Anthracite (hard coal) has the highest BTU of all the 4 coal types. It is much cleaner and is often used in steel mill blast furnaces...well..used to be anyway. Pennsylvania produces a lot of Anthracite whereas Kentucky and West Virginia and the bulk of the Appalachian operations are mostly Bituminous mines.

Point being, there are ways to "improve" the "dirty" coal, but the coal companies and power plants prefer not to spend that money to do it...so they don't. Blending the different grades is one way, smokestack CO2 scrubbers is another. This is THE MOST plentiful source of energy we have and what do we do? Try to figure out a way to stop using it and use something more expensive and just as dirty.

Renewable, eco energy is still in it's infancy. Solar DOES NOT work unless the sun is shining (nighttime anyone?) and wind only works where the wind blows all the time. Ever seen a windless day? Happens all the time.

When you patent an energy source as efficient as coal (energy per unit), that is available 24/7 - 365 and is pollution free....let me know. Till then, we need to be working to improve what we already have...not throw it away...at least until we have met the above three criteria

Originally posted by AdamOver
This is a most strange situation.

Why didnt the workers make signs stating they were here against their will, this is a live broadcast, they were standing directly behind Romney, they could all have held them up as the cameras were rolling.

Alternatively. One of them could have pushed Romney aside and addressed the cameras directly. Sure there would be some interception. But there would have been a good few seconds, plenty of time to speak, before the hail of bullets.

And even if there were bullets. It would sure make for a greater representation of what these politicians really stand for. (Supposed supporters gunned down on live tv).

Look at Tiananmen Square, one man can make a difference.

If America is truly the bastion of freedom and justice, one would hope, the (protesters) would not be prosecuted. And for the forced day off, how can that be justified. Could they not sue for this.?

why? they would get fired, or start getting writtten up for all kinds of little things and then get fired. when you have mouths to feed, and you are in you 30's, 40's, 50's, you ask how high, when your employer tells you to jump...this isn 't some "good guy beats the system" type of movie, this is real F U life. i've been there, and done that, they have you by the short hairs, and there is nobody around to "come save the day"

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer


Natural gas would indeed appear cheaper. Hydro is also cheaper than coal, but obviously limited in where it can be used.

Cheaper as far as what it would cost to the people who are deciding these things...but then when you factor in the 'costs' of fracking...well...not cheap at all if money isn't the only concern.

Check this out:
Dangers of Fracking

Originally posted by Jeremiah65

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
This rally stunt was offensive on two levels. The first was the absurdity of the miners, covered in soot, arranged behind Romney. Did they just crawl out of a mine? If anything, it just looked comical.

The second is a little more serious. Where were their rights? Forced to attend a rally by their employer, and not paid for it. Obviously, we used to have unions to protect against these sorts of abuses. But that was then. Circulating memos that named those miners who refused to partake is disgusting.

It used to be called "black balling/yellowlisting" and the Unions worked to get it made "illegal"...now the unions have lost their power due to corruption and the propaganda that "right to work" is a good idea. "Right to work" simply means that your employer can cut you loose for no reason at all and there is nothing you can do about it.

I have family members that were Union miners before the unions got gutted. They were thankful for the safety and "humane" treatment that the unions fought for. Then slowly, that all changed. Reagan gutted the air traffic controllers in the 80's and after that, they steadily lost power and influence.

no one today will do what was done "back in the day". If you ever get bored, look into the Matewan march. Where hundreds of tired and enslaved miners marched from the hills of West virginia to Washington DC to protest for safety and workers rights. The Coal companies hired Pinkerton security and paid off local law enforcement to open fire on them to stop the march. The miners fought back. Our society today is completely incapable of this risk and sacrifice...they might lose their cell phone service.

well of course, miners should risk getting shot and killed by corporate thugs, just so they can show they are capable of taking the risk.
in today's workforce, how else are you going to get fair pay and work safety protections?
those miners simply think government rules and regulations will protect them...how stupid are they anyway?

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by Bilk22

 

Go to the first source, radio host David Blomquist;
WWVA News Radio - Highlands Hot Topic

"Yes, we were in fact told that the Romney event was mandatory and would be without pay, that the hours spent there would need to be made up my non-salaried employees outside of regular working hours, with the only other option being to take a pay cut for the equivalent time," the employees told Blomquist. "Yes, letters have gone around with lists of names of employees who have not attended or donated to political events."

"I realize that many people in this area and elsewhere would love to have my job or my benefits," one worker explained. "And our bosses do not hesitate in reminding us of this. However, I can not agree with these callers and my supervisors, who are saying that just because you have a good job, that you should have to work any day for free on almost no notice without your consent."

"We do not appreciate being intimidated into exchanging our time for nothing. I heard one of your callers saying that Murray employees are well aware of what they are getting into upon hire, or that they are informed that a percentage of their income will go to political donations. I can not speak for that caller, but this is news for me. We merely find out how things work by experience."

Blomquist also spoke with Moore over the allegations;

"There were no workers that were forced to attend the event," Moore said. "We had managers that communicated to our work force that the attendance at the Romney event was mandatory, but no one was forced to attend the event. We had a pre-registration list. And employees were asked to put their names on a pre-registration list because they could not get into the event unless they were pre-registered and had a name tag to enter the premises."

"What about not getting paid for an eight-hour day?" Blomquist wondered. "If the mine was shut down for the visit, I understand, but wouldn't it be fair -- let's use the word 'fair' -- to still pay these individuals for that day? I mean, it wasn't their fault they weren't working."

"Our management people wanted to attend the event and we could not have people underground during Romney's visit," Moore insisted.

"But why not still pay then their wage for that day?" Blomquist pressed.

"By federal election law, we could not pay people to attend the event," Moore replied. "And we did not want anyone to come back and see where anyone had been paid for that day."

"I'm not saying pay then to attend the event, I'm saying, 'Hey look, we have to close down the mine, if you want to attend this event, that's fine, but you're still going to get a day's pay for the work that you would have done,'" Blomquist pointed out. "Why not do that?"

"As a private employer, it was our decision and we made the decision not to pay the people," the Murray chief financial officer said.

Where's the actual email(s)? Surely someone can post one and the source they received it from.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Jeremiah65

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
This rally stunt was offensive on two levels. The first was the absurdity of the miners, covered in soot, arranged behind Romney. Did they just crawl out of a mine? If anything, it just looked comical.

The second is a little more serious. Where were their rights? Forced to attend a rally by their employer, and not paid for it. Obviously, we used to have unions to protect against these sorts of abuses. But that was then. Circulating memos that named those miners who refused to partake is disgusting.

It used to be called "black balling/yellowlisting" and the Unions worked to get it made "illegal"...now the unions have lost their power due to corruption and the propaganda that "right to work" is a good idea. "Right to work" simply means that your employer can cut you loose for no reason at all and there is nothing you can do about it.

I have family members that were Union miners before the unions got gutted. They were thankful for the safety and "humane" treatment that the unions fought for. Then slowly, that all changed. Reagan gutted the air traffic controllers in the 80's and after that, they steadily lost power and influence.

no one today will do what was done "back in the day". If you ever get bored, look into the Matewan march. Where hundreds of tired and enslaved miners marched from the hills of West virginia to Washington DC to protest for safety and workers rights. The Coal companies hired Pinkerton security and paid off local law enforcement to open fire on them to stop the march. The miners fought back. Our society today is completely incapable of this risk and sacrifice...they might lose their cell phone service.

well of course, miners should risk getting shot and killed by corporate thugs, just so they can show they are capable of taking the risk.
in today's workforce, how else are you going to get fair pay and work safety protections?
those miners simply think government rules and regulations will protect them...how stupid are they anyway?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say there...confused me! There will come a time that we return to "the company stores" and pure indentured servitude. Are there any among us today with the guts to do what the Matewan men did? I don't think so. Maybe, after years of subjugation...

No, the Government is NOT going to protect fair pay for a deadly job nor are they going to be there to support safe working conditions. Why? Because the politicians are bought and paid for by the companies these policies would impact.

Funny...there WAS a time that men went to Washington to do good things for their neighbors, to make a difference for their community, state and nation...now they go to serve their own selfish interests. Both parties...all parties...there is no honor among thieves...

"Men have became as water...they follow the path of least resistance...so you end up with crooked rivers...and crooked men."

reply to post by nunya13


Yes, it is. Very flawed.

Especially when you consider other things such as the reason why...when you call to complain about something you bought in your hometown...you dial a toll-free number that shunts you to a call center in India...we had a call center here in town that is now closed...it was a big deal and a lot of people who previously couldn't find a job here were hired and all that I spoke to really liked the job...it wasn't all that hard and there were benefits and flexible hours. The supervisors were also local people trained for that and so it was a good thing for our struggling local economy. It was all that much more disappointing when it was closed somewhat suddenly. It didn't make sense, either, because a call center would not depend upon local business trends and would seem to be a relatively safe bet as far as job security or longevity as a operating business. It isn't like people just quit calling the companies contracting through the call center. But now it makes perfect sense. They just re-routed those calls somewhere else. Not to another town or even state...but another country on another continent.

And I'm not saying that to point fingers at or away from either candidate...I am speaking more to the general trend. I just know SOMEONE outsourced customer service calls to India...and I know it isn't rumor because I had been wondering, lately, why every time I called a customer service rep...well, not every time but at least half of the time...the person I spoke to had a decidedly east Indian accent.

If jobs are disappearing it is because the WORK is going away...but employment in the energy industry wouldn't have that risk, I don't think. It is just a question of redirection...and funds, of course, since it takes money to train and ready people to do work they've never done before.

There just might be a class action lawsuit for "unpaid extras in a major production" coming out of this.

They might not be afraid of the de-fanged miners union - but wait until SAG gets a hold of Gordon Gecko and these Mine bosses.

Ironic that this is exactly what Conservatives have been complaining about unions over for a couple of decades. The vast majority of union political donations and rally support historically has gone to Democrats in return for their glad handing of the union chiefs. It is a bit unfortunate to see the GOP sink as low as the Democrats have and, in turn, also join in on the disgustingness of forcing a worker to politically support someone just because the support equals a lot of profit for the union chief.

On the positive side, I suppose if this happens often enough more Democrat law makers will wake up to the fact that ever state should be a right to work state and the unions should be broken.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

When I was on active duty, I was forced with many others to pose for an Obama photo op when I was against it. All of those soldiers and Marines who pose behind the POTUS usually are ordered to be there. I'd never met a troop who wouldn't rather have a day off.

Well...but is that not a very different situation?
Orders are orders, right?
I mean, isn't that an understanding made clear at enlistment?
And the reasons are obvious.

But coal miners are not soldiers. They did not enlist nor were they drafted...they were employed to do work for a set amount of wages.

Are the soldiers paid to stand, as ordered, behind the President?
Are they deprived of a day off in order to do so?
Or is it fairly compensated as far as those things are concerned?

Originally posted by NavyDoc
[When I was on active duty, I was forced with many others to pose for an Obama photo op when I was against it. All of those soldiers and Marines who pose behind the POTUS usually are ordered to be there. I'd never met a troop who wouldn't rather have a day off.

I am confused? Is Mitt Romney the Commander and Chief of Murray Energy? Did those miners enlist? Where you docked a days pay for attending an event with the Commander and Chief of the US Military?

You think that is the same thing?

What a silly analogy...

Honestly...an outright desperate analogy.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Ironic that this is exactly what Conservatives have been complaining about unions over for a couple of decades. The vast majority of union political donations and rally support historically has gone to Democrats in return for their glad handing of the union chiefs. It is a bit unfortunate to see the GOP sink as low as the Democrats have and, in turn, also join in on the disgustingness of forcing a worker to politically support someone just because the support equals a lot of profit for the union chief.

On the positive side, I suppose if this happens often enough more Democrat law makers will wake up to the fact that ever state should be a right to work state and the unions should be broken.

there were several reasons why unions were formed in the first place. workers lost their lives, were paid poorly, and worked long and miserable hours. i don't think the companies now days will be thoughtful and benevolant toward their workers as one would hope. they will, as they did in the past, exploit the labor to squeeze out as much profit as possible, regardless of harm to the workers themselves

A group of coal miners in Ohio feel they would have been fired if they did not attend an Aug. 14 event with presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and contribute to his campaign — and to make matters worse, they lost of day of pay for their trouble.

I guess they now know how teachers feel that have no choice but join a union. A union that uses their dues to support a political party that those teachers may not personally support.

/TOA

Until someone posts or puts the email in a news source, this is total BS.

Originally posted by The Old American

A group of coal miners in Ohio feel they would have been fired if they did not attend an Aug. 14 event with presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and contribute to his campaign — and to make matters worse, they lost of day of pay for their trouble.

I guess they now know how teachers feel that have no choice but join a union. A union that uses their dues to support a political party that those teachers may not personally support.

/TOA

question? why would a teacher support the republican party?...they want to take away benefits, retirement, lower their pay, they would be able to fire a teacher at will even if it's right before her retirement, or for that matter any reason whatsoever...republicans for decades now, have shown little regard for teachers and the work they preform

reply to post by Bilk22


You've been given the link TWICE, it's an AUDIO file, click it and listen. You can also listen to how the CFO (Moore) of the mine was responding, on air, to the comments/emails from the miners.

reply to post by Indigo5


No, maybe just from that scowling guy in the back but no I think the thought bubbles are all yours.