Why Obama's Birth Certificate Doesn't Matter!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Now, the document doesn't say he has to produce a Birth Certificate. Although Obama is the *FIRST* one to outright refuse.

Obama did not refuse. In fact he released his birth certificate in 2008 of his own accord. No one asked him to do that. No one asked him for a birth certificate before the election. After the election sore losers started demanding everything except an autopsy on his mother and father.

I'm in my second college course on Photoshop and being trained professionally how to use the program as part of my undergraduate degree program.

What relevance is Photoshop or your 'opinion' about what the PDF should or should not look like? The PDF document was never processed in any way by Photoshop. If you had even the most rudimentary understanding of Photoshop you could find that fact out for your self. Any cloak of credibility you may be trying to claim for your self here is completely negated with that assertion.

Originally posted by micpsi
It has NOT been shown that he was born in Hawaii.

Yes it has, that is why he is the legal POTUS....

The proof has never been made public.

Yes it has, but you refuse to accept reality.....

The certificate released by the White House is a proven forgery made on a computer.

Proven by whom? The "experts" that claimed it was a forgery were not actually experts, as the rubbish they gave as "proof" was not acceptable in court.

The real idiots are those who don't want to lose face by admitting that they were wrong all along.....

Very true, they are commonly known as birthers!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I just want to make sure we are on the same page with respect to what you are saying here.

Okay, point #1. I have a thread linked in my signature. It applies VERY well to some people. Very well indeed. You might want to go check it and see how closely it may just apply in your case. I'll leave that, right there......

It seems to me that you are saying that it is OK for YOU to express your opinions about people by, for example, making serious unsubstantiated criminal accusations against them, but it isn't OK for others to ask you to justify those views.

Have I got that right? Is that the essence of your message about Political Trolling?

And before you answer, the following are your words:

Kinda like how anyone can put out a fabricated and layered Photoshop document and claim it's legitimate.

With that statement you are accusing everyone from the Obama's Mother, Father, and Grandparents, the Hawai'ian State Department of Health, two Hawai'ian State Governors from rival political parties, Obama's Lawyers, White House Staff, not to mention the President himself, and countless others in a decades long coverup and perpetrating forgery of Government documents.

Furthermore, you are making the reckless claims that the Birth Certificate was fraudulently 'fabricated' using Photoshop, that a PDF document created by Photoshop can't have layers. These claims are trivially proven false (Photoshop wasn't used in any way, PDF's do have layers, and Photoshop can produce layers) and yet you imply that 'anyone who can put out' such a document should be condemned.

I understand that to fall within your definition of aggressive 'political trolling' that you claim to be opposed to.

Understand me here. I have no problem with you slinging as much mud as you want to. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and much of this site's reason for being is to give you the opportunity to express them. But you are just plain naive to think that people will agree with everything you say and that no one will challenge you to justify yourself. It's a cliche maybe, but an accurate one: Every one is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled to their own facts.

Here is something else you said that should be rethought in light of your "political trolling" rant:

Maybe someday we'll find out WHAT about that document is so critical to hide. I figure daddy wasn't daddy as it's been presented.... Who knows... We absolutely won't while Obama has the full power of the Government behind him to block any access to that piece of paper.

First it doesn't matter if there was something earth shattering on the document that we haven't seen (and I do not concede that there is the remotest possibility that there is) . What we have seen is all that is required to confirm the Constitutional requirements have been fullfilled: he is old enough and he was born a citizen. Case Closed.

So, please tell me what it is I don't understand about your Political Trolling message. Am I right that it doesn't apply to you, only others?

reply to post by micpsi

It has NOT been shown that he was born in Hawaii. The proof has never been made public.

Actually it has been made public. Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it any less legitimate.

I could sit here and decry that you don't exist. However, the fact remains that you do exist despite my objections. Facts are facts, and Obama has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was indeed born in Hawaii, and thus a natural born citizen of these United States.

I can no more force you to believe the facts than I can force Bill O'Reilly to believe that tides flow in and out according to the position of the moon and sun.

Of course, you are free to believe anything you wish. All I can do is remind you of the legitimate facts of the matter. I'll even use a right wing publication to show that this is indeed the case.

www.theblaze.com...#

Yes, that's theblaze.com a very conservative web publication started by Glenn Beck. You know that he wouldn't let anything on there that was pro Obama unless there was no other way to spin it.

I see the same old arguments reappear on this subject.

I'm not saying honesty,integrity,and loyalty don't matter. I'm all for those qualities in a president. I wish we had honest government,but we haven't had for a long time,and this thread is about the fact that being a "natural born citizen" legally carries no weight at this point. It is irrelevant. Under the old republic it did matter,but if we are a corporation,as seems to be the case,it does not,and arguing about it just further keeps us from seeing the bigger picture.

O.k. lets say for the sake of argument that America really is a corporation and it's run like one and all the old rules no longer apply.

Are we citizens then all employees of the corporation? Don't we all have our names registered to our corporate entities on the global market? If so, How do we like shareholders of any corporation, fight this? Don't we have the collective power because we have the greater numbers? Can't we do a hostile takeover?

Originally posted by xuenchen
..... should we put all parties responsible on trial (posthumously) for treason?

This has real potential. If we showed enough blood, guts, gore and veins-in-our-teeth, we could probably compete with "Dancing with the Stars".

See by itself the BC doesn't mean squat. But if we also get to see those school records that maybe a different story. A little misdirection and anything pertaining to his BC gets shot down as being false.

The United States was never a country.

It's a Republic

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


With even a rudimentary knowledge you should realize that Photoshop is not what created the layers. Those layers of type were created because it was a copy of a copy, and the OCR is what created them. Photoshop has nothing to do with it, its the scanning that was done to put it online in the first place.

Obama did not refuse. In fact he released his birth certificate in 2008 of his own accord. No one asked him to do that. No one asked him for a birth certificate before the election. After the election sore losers started demanding everything except an autopsy on his mother and father.

You're suggesting the State Government of Arizona (and other states for that matter) just missed this having been released in 2008 in a proper, legal and functional form. That was not Sheriff Joe who compelled Hawaii to certify this. It was the State of Arizona. His deal is a separate matter and running parallel to what the State was doing. So... I anxiously await the proof you claim has existed for 4 years in the public domain now, yet states and Courts have entirely missed. In the mean time, unlike many, I DO link to what I say. His Long Form Birth Certificate was released by the White House on April, 27 2011

Although, frankly, we're really debating nothing and for no reason here. Why people aren't dropping this is becoming baffling. Hawaii *DID* properly and legally certify the man has one. They did legally and properly certify it actually established his presence as a newborn on American Soil. I can wonder about the fraud they pawned off in April of 2011 but wondering is all it amounts to until additional inquiries start for the sake of an accurate historical record of this period in America.

At SOME POINT....the real and proper document will be seen and will be known. We'll ALL know what this crap was all about then. His being born on American soil WAS NOT IT, obviously, as Arizona established to their legal satisfaction..

If he released a Birth Cert in 2008, you will have a link or Screen Cap image of that 2008 release, correct? I'm sorry I won't take anyone's "word" on this in a debate. Not now..and pretty much, never again on Obama related topics. Everyone has an opinion... MOST are wrong or totally without proof or backing beyond that personal opinion.

Now... You're saying nearly four YEARS of court battles, fighting and general national debate over this was actually solved clear back in 2008. I do have where the Selective Service Card was released, but that raised far more questions than it answered. I can see, based on that one alone, why they play games.

He's apparently perfectly legal to serve as President but that is a LONG WAY from saying there isn't a rat here somewhere and it STINKS. For election purposes though. All that matters for legal status has been answered with that inter-state certifying earlier this year.

What relevance is Photoshop or your 'opinion' about what the PDF should or should not look like? The PDF document was never processed in any way by Photoshop. If you had even the most rudimentary understanding of Photoshop you could find that fact out for your self. Any cloak of credibility you may be trying to claim for your self here is completely negated with that assertion.

On your last point... The relevance is what I linked to refresh everyone's memory. The "document" released in April last year had been modified, edited and layered as Photoshop DID clearly show. This was testified to under oath in a Court Room and before a Sitting Judge. It's NOT theory.

It's insane that someone was THAT sloppy. It would have been a couple clicks to remove and combine the layering and remove that entirely. Whoever is playing with this stuff in the White House needs some of that job training to go back and learn how to do it a bit better. They just don't know what they're doing.

Was it modified to JUST clean up the appearance of an old document or was it edited to change material facts? I don't know and no one who hasn't seen the real one in the book does know.

That's the point. They are morons in the White House to even have touched it...for ANY reason. It should have been faithfully reproduced with no touch-ups of any kind, whatsoever. THAT isn't what they released tho....and the ORIGINAL, without the layering, still must exist on White House computers somewhere. Why not show how it was all just to remove the smudging and dirt from an old archive document? Easy enough....if nothing else about it had been altered.

I hope any further claims of this or that come with more than your personal opinion, assertions, claims or otherwise lacking something beyond your own text to show it's validity.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
If he released a Birth Cert in 2008, you will have a link or Screen Cap image of that 2008 release, correct?

Or you could have done a search for "2008 obama birth certificate" and clicked on the first link... But you refused to do that as you know it destroys your silly conspiracy theory!

I'm sorry I won't take anyone's "word" on this in a debate. Not now..and pretty much, never again on Obama related topics. Everyone has an opinion... MOST are wrong or totally without proof or backing beyond that personal opinion.

then you said:

The "document" released in April last year had been modified, edited and layered as Photoshop DID clearly show. This was testified to under oath in a Court Room and before a Sitting Judge.

So you have no clue at all what you are saying, first you say you will accept no ones word on the document, then you accept the word of some one at a court.... you are very confused!

And what was the outcome of that court case? The judge decided

"The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support plaintiffs’ allegations"

so the "witnesses" did not know what they were on about!

I hope any further claims of this or that come with more than your personal opinion, assertions, claims or otherwise lacking something beyond your own text to show it's validity.

and that is all birthers have, their own opinions and claims, that time and time again have shown to be just wrong!

My question is why are people still crying over this whole certificate thing? Woah, what if you find conclusive proof of it tomorrow? You're gonna knock the last 4 months of his presidency off? Oooh, congratulations guys, great work! No. And if he gets reelected this will continue.....and just like the loch ness monster or bigfoot, you'll all keep looking, with a few "blurry" pictures every now and again, which everyone will look at differently. Nothing conclusive will ever come about. That's the reality of it.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
O.k. lets say for the sake of argument that America really is a corporation and it's run like one and all the old rules no longer apply.

Are we citizens then all employees of the corporation? Don't we all have our names registered to our corporate entities on the global market? If so, How do we like shareholders of any corporation, fight this? Don't we have the collective power because we have the greater numbers? Can't we do a hostile takeover?

We probably couldn't do it for the same reasons TPTB are so successful in the first place..."Divide and Conquer"!
You know how hard it is to imagine people being actually organized and on the same page about anything!

But I agree,as "employees",you'd think there'd be a way to bargain for a better deal,but of course,being that our overlords are not the benevolent kind,good luck with that idea!

Originally posted by Dawnbreaker
My question is why are people still crying over this whole certificate thing? Woah, what if you find conclusive proof of it tomorrow? You're gonna knock the last 4 months of his presidency off? Oooh, congratulations guys, great work! No. And if he gets reelected this will continue.....and just like the loch ness monster or bigfoot, you'll all keep looking, with a few "blurry" pictures every now and again, which everyone will look at differently. Nothing conclusive will ever come about. That's the reality of it.

This thread is about pointing out the irrelevancy of the whole issue in the first place,regardless of all the details surrounding it's authenticity or not. Seriously,the two sides of the debate have been rehashed endlessly. It's time we move beyond it and focus on something else,realizing it may have just been a brilliant distraction in the first place.

This thing about the Corporation vs. the Republic ought to be the topic,but any and all comments are welcome.

Of course it doesn't matter. We let immigrants vote, why wouldn't we let them be President?

I thought this video was brilliantly done,given the fact it makes a solution not sound so far-fetched,...except we sorta need a government,of some kind,that isn't so bought off to begin with!

This talks about the need for our government to print our own currency,pay off the "debt",if necessary,and no longer be slaves to a fiat currency! Voila! Imagine life freed up from constant debt ! Wow! That money could go to real situations in the here and now.

Watch this if you get the time. Good history lesson. Of course,people have been killed for trying to impose this solution,but hey,they're killing us anyway,right?

Bill Still's Wizard of Oz Documentary



(This debt being the basis of our dilemma,apparently.)
From
www.serendipity.li...

TextThe Congress realized our country was in dire financial straits, so they cut a deal with the international bankers — (in those days, the Rothschilds of London were dipping their fingers into everyone's pie) thereby incurring a DEBT to said bankers. If we think about banks, we know they do not just lend us money out of the goodness of their hearts. A bank will not do anything for you unless it is entirely in their best interest to do so. There has to be some sort of collateral or some string attached which puts you and me (the borrower) into a subservient position. This was true back in 1871 as well. The conniving international bankers were not about to lend our floundering nation any money without some serious stipulations. So, they devised a brilliant way of getting their foot in the door of the United States (a prize they had coveted for some time, but had been unable to grasp thanks to our Founding Fathers, who despised them and held them in check), and thus, the Act of 1871 was passed.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
Of course it doesn't matter. We let immigrants vote, why wouldn't we let them be President?

Again,..President of the Corporation!

Letting illegal immigrants come here just gives TPTB cheaper labor,(along with overloading the system until it breaks!) What might look inviting to them now is really just a trap. There is nothing FREE without strings attached. Like the saying goes,"If it sounds too good to be true,it probably is."

They'll be no better off than the rest of us in the future. Or maybe the idea is to replace Americans altogether if they don't care for the way things are done?

reply to post by On the Edge


The decisions being made by our politicians today a short-term, selfish, myopic, and greedy. Conspiracy or not, they are setting us up to fail, including our children, our economy, our foreign relationships, our future even! This isn't about left vs right, or liberals versus conservatives anymore, and it hasn't been for the past 50 years. They have all turned into thieves and criminals. No one cares about the American public anymore but the American public.

Originally posted by On the Edge
Wouldn't this explain why our elections are such a sham also? Since shareholders decide who will run a corporation,right? Are the choices we're given really more like auditions for those shareholders,to see who holds up the best in front of the people?

Sure seems that way.

His history does. No jobs,... Yeahhhhh,,,,, Go Obama. NOT. He is shameful.....