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Are Humans the result of Hybridization?

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posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Noinden
 


In the case of this topic its not a very good example. I have been posting in forums like this since 1989 and have on occasion worked as a moderator. If you feel my response to you seemed defensive I apologize, that was not my intention. My experience has taught me that when a person starts a thread he or she should take responsibility for keeping the thread on topic.

Therefore avoiding the need for other to do the same thing, allowing moderators to deal with more serious problems.




we share soemthing like 98% of our dna with chimpanae's, so I would guess no

I would think a hybrid would have a larger degree of separation


Consider the Mule, a hybrid of Horses and Donkey.




we share soemthing like 98% of our dna with chimpanae's, so I would guess no

I would think a hybrid would have a larger degree of separation


Consider the Mule, a hybrid of Horses and Donkey.



Go downtown, it's full of neanderthals.
Seriously; slaves & drunken irishmen, conquistadors and natives, venusians and inuits, greeks and pliedeians, sure, why not. Looks like all of 'em abound and then some.






Macro and Micro evolution are terms which are abused greatly by creationist/intellegent design proponents. They have very specific meanings.


For me God creating reality is akin to a farmer preparing a feild for crops and from there evolution took over.

Understand that I am offering that Hybridization is the engine of evolution.

Any thoughts?

edit on 28-8-2012 by Kashai because: modified content




posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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I have been posting online for about as long, that has no relevance to the replies here, it is a misdirection. How was my post taking this off topic? You have dodged the whole comment on Macro and Mirco evolution being used inappropriately here. You also make some assumptions like there Is only one god. I’m a hard polytheist as well as a scientist, so I can actually understand the idea of the divine, in its many forms.

Again, your example of a horse and a donkey is no better than my examples. Equus ferus caballus (the horse) and Equus africanus asinus (the donkey). The mule/hinny is usually sterile due to different numbers of chromosomes (64 for the horse and 62 for the donkey). This is akin to Homo neanderthalus and Homo sapien. Same genus, different species as we see with the horse and the donkey. However it’s most likely that Neanderthals and modern humans were both haploid 23. Why? We inherited some of their genes (either from the closest ancestor, or more likely through breeding with them). There is absolutely no evidence that chimps and humans can interbreed (and scientists have tried) thanks to humans (haploid 23) and Chimps (haploid 24) having different numbers of chromosomes, despite being 98% similar (we are about 99.5% similar to Neanderthals as far as we can tell (small sample size)).

So hybridization? It would take something being VERY similar to us. Most likely the same genus only. Lets say that a god (be it your “one god”, or one of my deities) decided to get funky with two different species. They would have to either (a) genetically engineer from scratch, or provide some convenient bridge to get these species to reproduce, in a fertile manner. Which is the most important thing. Fertile. We have to be able to pass said new characteristics on, and they need to be advantageous to the species. It has been suggested that increased brain power is coupled with depression. So you get the advantage of increased cognitive thought, with some people also having the “black dog” to deal with. To me that is almost a borderline improvement, considering depression can lead to suicide (and thus not passing on genes).

Those would be the surface thoughts I have. It is less likely that hybridization is the engine of evolution (in the way that you are offering it) than the way I’ve talked about it, and others have on some similar threads.


Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by Noinden
 


In the case of this topic its not a very good example. I have been posting in forums like this since 1989 and have on occasion worked as a moderator. If you feel my response to you seemed defensive I apologize, that was not my intention. My experience has taught me that when a person starts a thread he or she should take responsibility for keeping the thread on topic.

Therefore avoiding the need for other to do the same thing, allowing moderators to deal with more serious problems.




we share soemthing like 98% of our dna with chimpanae's, so I would guess no

I would think a hybrid would have a larger degree of separation


Consider the Mule, a hybrid of Horses and Donkey.




we share soemthing like 98% of our dna with chimpanae's, so I would guess no

I would think a hybrid would have a larger degree of separation


Consider the Mule, a hybrid of Horses and Donkey.



Go downtown, it's full of neanderthals.
Seriously; slaves & drunken irishmen, conquistadors and natives, venusians and inuits, greeks and pliedeians, sure, why not. Looks like all of 'em abound and then some.






Macro and Micro evolution are terms which are abused greatly by creationist/intellegent design proponents. They have very specific meanings.


For me God creating reality is akin to a farmer preparing a feild for crops and from there evolution took over.

Understand that I am offering that Hybridization is the engine of evolution.

Any thoughts?

edit on 28-8-2012 by Kashai because: modified content



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by Noinden
 


My impression is that one God represented his-self to all cultures, this being the case of the similarities that inherently exist (Krishna being born of a virgin as an example).

I feel that the mule as an example, will eventually evolve the ability to reproduce with other mules and humans started off in the same situation.

There is actually an ancient account that implies that .

Any thoughts?



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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is My own impression is that all gods are separate and unique, oh and real (including the Abrahamic one, that one not however the only god, or all powerful) but this is personal gnosis, and thus off topic, and I'd "hate to scuttle your deabate".

There are chances that Mules or Hinny's can breed, but not great ones, again it's the difference in the number of chromosomes from the parents that cause the issues, rendering their reproductive cells non viable. I'd not take ancient accounts of something too seriously as they are usually overblown urban legends (for example that King David and son having this huge empire or King Arthur being a European war lord vs some minor king in the UK). When we talk about these things we have to deal with verifiable data, or retreat to pure belief.

Sorry to be a pedant about this, but it IS important. You can not prove anything by believing in it, or not believing in it either



Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by Noinden
 


My impression is that one God represented his-self to all cultures, this being the case of the similarities that inherently exist (Krishna being born of a virgin as an example).

I feel that the mule as an example, will eventually evolve the ability to reproduce with other mules and humans started off in the same situation.

There is actually an ancient account that implies that .

Any thoughts?




posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Noinden
 


I feel the same way actually but in relation to this particular account. It suggests that in respect to cause, humans were originally reproduced en mass as a food source, for cannibalistic proto-humans. As horrible a creation story as that might seem to of course many, implied a rather rational assessment, all things considered.

Any thoughts?

PS: The account is actually called "The One" and there is a hero invovled
edit on 28-8-2012 by Kashai because: added content



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by Noinden
 


I feel the same way actually but in relation to this particular account. It suggests that in respect to cause, humans were originally reproduced en mass as a food source, for cannibalistic proto-humans. As horrible a creation story as that might seem to of course many, implied a rather rational assessment, all things considered.

Any thoughts?


Can I have a source for this? I don't want the Bible as that thanks (read it, and several other Abrahamic texts). I am actually curious (not trolling) I'm willing to read most things, then judge them.

As for "cannibalistic proto-humans". There are several human cultures that have been that way too (the Celts, the Maori (I live in New Zealand), Papua New Guinee etc). Eating your own Genus is usually a bad idea (hells in the same family is also bad). Prion diseases spring to mind (ooh bad unintentional pun).

So can I see a bit more of what you are basing your idea on?

EDIT: The one as in that Jet Lee movie?
edit on 28-8-2012 by Noinden because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by Noinden

Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by Noinden
 


I feel the same way actually but in relation to this particular account. It suggests that in respect to cause, humans were originally reproduced en mass as a food source, for cannibalistic proto-humans. As horrible a creation story as that might seem to of course many, implied a rather rational assessment, all things considered.

Any thoughts?


Can I have a source for this? I don't want the Bible as that thanks (read it, and several other Abrahamic texts). I am actually curious (not trolling) I'm willing to read most things, then judge them.

As for "cannibalistic proto-humans". There are several human cultures that have been that way too (the Celts, the Maori (I live in New Zealand), Papua New Guinee etc). Eating your own Genus is usually a bad beleif idea (hells in the same family is also bad). Prion diseases spring to mind (ooh bad unintentional pun).

So can I see a bit more of what you are basing your idea on?


The "Account of The One" is actually of Chinese origin. I was taught about 10 other accounts that do not appear in the regular regimen of western interpretations. Amongst them is the "Account of the Experiments of Anubis", that offers that when survival is perceived as, at stake? Animals can replicate asexually ,through Mitosis at the multicellular level. (all jokes aside). I was taught these accounts by Taino Elders when I was about 4. While, for the life of me, I cannot remember the details of my birthday when I twas 9 years old? I remember the details of these accounts like they were described to me yesterday.

"The One" was born at a time, in relation to the "heyday" of this proton-human culture. He was a slave to what then would have then been considered a scientist. Humans at the time were considered inferior, because they could not reproduce. From there the account offers that proto-humans had discovered a means to survive, intellectually intact, the effects of crustal pole shifts. Implied is that photo-human had somehow learned somehow to overcome the effects of such an event, which effectively erased all memory of knowledge and technology they developed to that point. During such an event "The One," circumvented this means and so proto-humans reverted to a stage,. were they were no different, than our common understanding of what Proto-humans were capable of. Like many accounts in relation to Human history, the details seem "mixed' but overall this particular account. Is suggestive of an event where (as I have offered), suggests that humans were once Hybrids , incapable of reproduction and used as a food source.

780,000 years ago a magnetic pole shift occurred and potentially as a result, the food chain was affected. This due to migratory animals not being where they were supposed to be. I consider that at this time alternatives were considered and proto-humans began interacting with each other sexually so as to generate a food source.

To date it has been verified that not all cave drawings are the result of human intervention.

Any thoughts?
edit on 29-8-2012 by Kashai because: added and modifed content



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by Kashai
 


Nice story, I doubt the veracity of the story however, as oral traditions tend to degrade (like all data) over time. Look at the murinos of Spain. People of Jewish decent who in four or 500 years forgot almost everything about Judaism, because they had to hide it (to stay alive). Or the fact there is no reliable information on pre-christian Celtic spiritual Practices (I'm a neopagan Druid, so I know this) from 1500 years ago.

Again eating similar species is a great way of getting their diseases. Viz CJD (a prion disease), possibly HIV, Ebola etc.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by Noinden
 


I do respect my elders but I also share your skepticism. Though in respect to this account I do consider the possibility of an event where a proverbial Eden was lost, to an interruption in the food chain. This being due to factors outside the control of those who saw themselves as unique. Therefore survival of the species at all cost, became the theme.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Kashai because: modified content



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by Noinden
 


I do respect my elders but I also share your skepticism. Though in respect to this account I do consider the possibility of an event where a proverbial Eden was lost, to an interruption in the food chain. This being due to factors outside the control of those who saw themselves as unique. Therefore survival of the species at all cost, became the theme.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Kashai because: modified content


There might be a kernel of truth in there, the timeline may just have become vastly inflated.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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My impression of Flood Mythos is that they are events related to the end of the last Ice Age.When what was land now sits deep below the oceans.

Any thoughts?



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by Kashai
 


Perhaps, not all cultures have one, including some closely related ones. No known flood myths exist in the various celtic or Germanic languages, while the Greeks have one (Atlantis). All are related cultures (Indo-European). They all separated after the last ice age. So it sort of puts pay to that idea. *Shrug*



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Noinden
reply to post by Kashai
 


Perhaps, not all cultures have one, including some closely related ones. No known flood myths exist in the various celtic or Germanic languages, while the Greeks have one (Atlantis). All are related cultures (Indo-European). They all separated after the last ice age. So it sort of puts pay to that idea. *Shrug*


What actually happened is relevant . If in reality, Toltecs (a word meaning scientist or master craftsman) needed to develop models, before they applied Mayan Sound Technology, to full size Pyramids? That would have been consistent with rational behavior, in relation to, constructing something accurately.

The Models in and of themselves would have been developed....

In so far as flood Mythos? We have identified very large structures deep underwater. .that are clearly man made.

Any thoughts?


edit on 31-8-2012 by Kashai because: Modifed content



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Kashai

Originally posted by Noinden
reply to post by Kashai
 


Perhaps, not all cultures have one, including some closely related ones. No known flood myths exist in the various celtic or Germanic languages, while the Greeks have one (Atlantis). All are related cultures (Indo-European). They all separated after the last ice age. So it sort of puts pay to that idea. *Shrug*


What actually happened is relevant . If in reality, Toltecs (a word meaning scientist or master craftsman) needed to develop models, before they applied Mayan Sound Technology, to full size Pyramids? That would have been consistent with rational behavior, in relation to, constructing something accurately.

The Models in and of themselves would have been developed....

In so far as flood Mythos? We have identified very large structures deep underwater. .that are clearly man made.

Any thoughts?


edit on 31-8-2012 by Kashai because: Modifed content


You've now entered an area I consider whsihful thinking (sound tech etc). As for the underwater structures. Sure they are there, beyond that we don't know. Get me the Doctor and we can go look



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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Take a look at this....


Unexplained Acoustics

Actulally the word Toltec means Master Craftsmen and/or Scientist.

They also found Mayan Ball Courts on the Island of Puerto Rico....where I come from.

People like to live near water and when the last Ice Age ended many of those settlements were
completely wiped out, by flood.


Proto-humans were probably a lot more intelligent that we often give credit for. A case in point being, even in respect to the issue of the End of days. 780,000 years ago there were no humans on earth, despite that fact we celebrate the end of days very soon. A time in history that we generally do not relate to as the beginnings of agriculture and the domestications of animals.

Though for sure, a time when the last magnetic pole shift occured.

Any thoughts?
edit on 2-9-2012 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on Sep, 2 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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Sorry not convinced, and I will be honesst, I am not interested in Toltecs
The Celts yeah, each and every Celtic culture interests me. The Maori too. But the Toltecs? Nah. Sorry. I am also not convinced of an "end of days" anytime soon either.

As for "proto humans" if it's of the genus Homo then it is human. 780K years back, we at least had Homo erectus (and others) who made tools, used fire, and at least physiologically should have been able to speak (those are the things we KNOW from fossels and digs, we have no DNA to see more of their physical self, or time machines to see how they acted.


Originally posted by Kashai
Take a look at this....


Unexplained Acoustics

Actulally the word Toltec means Master Craftsmen and/or Scientist.

They also found Mayan Ball Courts on the Island of Puerto Rico....where I come from.

People like to live near water and when the last Ice Age ended many of those settlements were
completely wiped out, by flood.


Proto-humans were probably a lot more intelligent that we often give credit for. A case in point being, even in respect to the issue of the End of days. 780,000 years ago there were no humans on earth, despite that fact we celebrate the end of days very soon. A time in history that we generally do not relate to as the beginnings of agriculture and the domestications of animals.

Though for sure, a time when the last magnetic pole shift occured.

Any thoughts?
edit on 2-9-2012 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by Noinden
 


Part of my upbringing included indigenous teachings by the Taino of Puerto Rico, were there are Mayan Ballcourts.

They really do work like that, as do the Pyramids present in Mexico.

I certain we feel as strongly about our respective cultural backgrounds.

Given they could speak one can conclude they worked together towards there common good. With fire, as has often been offered, intellectual considerations began. We know from what we can observe that they were migratory, keeping up with other migratory animals for food.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Part of my upbringing was Cymric and Gaelic myths and legends


We can guess what earlier members of the genus Homo did, but we can not know for certain.


Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by Noinden
 


Part of my upbringing included indigenous teachings by the Taino of Puerto Rico, were there are Mayan Ballcourts.

They really do work like that, as do the Pyramids present in Mexico.

I certain we feel as strongly about our respective cultural backgrounds.

Given they could speak one can conclude they worked together towards there common good. With fire, as has often been offered, intellectual considerations began. We know from what we can observe that they were migratory, keeping up with other migratory animals for food.




posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Noinden
 


Suggesting proto- humans were fixed to a partilcular location. Would offer much more evidence in relation, to a culture like perhaps the Egytians, which remained at one particlular location. Proto-humans moved around, much like cultures that still rely on this method to access food. Consider Native Americans who followed the Buffalo as an example.

Even the idea that Homo-sapient, interacted with Neadrathals and Desinovians indicate migratory behavior, in general.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by Kashai
 


I do not think ANYONE is questioning Homo sapien or Homo erectus and their migratory behaviour, Denisovians and Neanderthals also probably did this.









 
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