I'm just wondering.....do we have anything but this kid's relatives and a very one sided newspaper article to back the circumstances being described for the photo? A photo can be worth a thousand words and a caption can contain a lie for every word it has.

In this particular case, I am curious enough to mention it because the boy doesn't seem the least bit perturbed or in fear of being hit with a projectile. I see no rock dust or fragments across the hoods...and no apparent rock scuffs or other signs the grills were hit since they'd last seen a wash bay.

Ultimately, he's tied to the grill. Indeed...but making as relaxed and large a target of himself as one could if under attack by rocks and such. I'd certainly pull my legs up and scoot broadside to the line of threat to the maximum extent possible...but this kid almost looks bored and annoyed at having his time and day interrupted.

A possible alternative explanation comes to mind.... Those are security vehicles and little jeeps at that. Not much room for a prisoner cage like modern police units. I am SURE the Israeli's aren't putting any Palestinian into a security vehicle that isn't 100% secure and with barriers to their gear, weapons and radios. So.... What to do with a pesky little prisoner? Cuff him to the bumper? Yeah.. I could see someone "forgetting" he was there. Perhaps to a side mirror? How long can the kid stand before dangling by a cuffed wrist? The alternative I'd have come up with all by myself and without the photo is to plop the kid on the hood..out of range of what he shouldn't be seeing, hearing or messing with.....but where he can sit comfy for the minutes or perhaps even hours before transporting to a proper facility. Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'm just wondering.....do we have anything but this kid's relatives and a very one sided newspaper article to back the circumstances being described for the photo? A photo can be worth a thousand words and a caption can contain a lie for every word it has.

Here's a Title that i think you would agree with then.

Israeli Soliders Rescue's Tired Palestinian Boy, Cuffs Him To front Of Car For His Own Safety, And Drive's Him Back To his Family Un Harmed.

Well, alrighty then... I attempted to bring a little logic to a thread that is almost entirely run on blind hate and emotion to drive assumption. We all know how assumption turns out.

I don't consider Palestinian Parents to be any more reliable a report than some buck private in the IDF. Both have agendas as wide as the Jordan river to lie and spew propaganda and both sides do it daily, and ad naseum. It's a fact of life over there as a number of videos I presented in another thread on Israel yesterday showed clearly for the killers that form Hamas.

In this case.... We have a boy on a truck. Nothing else. Nothing more. A kid under arrest and detention and at the moment that was taken.....apparently bored, pissed off and under NO threat of ANY real kind. If someone wants to tell me he was, then explain to me what living thing EVER exposes their entire front from head to toe and their head entirely unprotected to incoming rocks. Even animals have the instinct to get small when under attack... yet this kid who has grown up with combat and death as a daily fact of life, is all but spread wide as if at the Beach on a tired Sunday afternoon.

Well, Okay,... Why be subtle? I call this outright Horse crap. Who knows what MAY have happened before that picture was taken..or after it....but the lack of ANY sign that a rock hit any part of the vehicles exposed to the camera tells me the whole story is suspect.

That is..unless someone honestly expects us to believe the Israelis kindly dusted the hood off and made it all clean from the dust of rocks being thrown at it...so the kid wouldn't be troubled.

Naww.. B.S. If that had been a barrage of rocks, so bad as to strap a kid down as a human shield...just where is ONE rock. ONE chip of a rock..or even the scuff of a rock's impact to the hood, grills or roof of any exposed surface of the vehicles?

Deny Ignorance usually means taking evidence as it stands, not the wishful thinking of what we'd like to think we see or which we see by the reports of those with every reason to fabricate.

This is about as credible as the video I did post yesterday from P.A. Television saying the Israeli's were seeding the Temple Mount with corrosive chemicals expressly the weaken the foundations of the Al Aqsa Mosque and bring it to the ground. Yeah... RIGHT.... They'd be contaminating their OWN land..and the location THEY want as much as the Arabs, they willingly turn into a Super Fund site?

Fail on both as pure propaganda in the 100% and TOTAL absence of proof where proof should be clearly visible as even a casual glance. (being subtle was worth a try once anyway..... nuanced points and subtlety seems a completely and totally lost art these days. )

@ By the way.... Why do *ALL* of the Israel OR Arab threads ...which are ONLY about one side or the other always have to call on the bad deeds of the OTHER side to justify the crap the side a thread is about? I KNOW Israeli Soldiers have been busted on some real vile abuse. It happens in every military on Earth. Some more than others..and the fact Israel *IS* busting their people for it means they don't encourage it. Show me a nation with troops in contact with any opposition where abuse does not take place though. I'l love to see...any one. Any example in the world for sustained operations with an opposing force.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Why do *ALL* of the Israel OR Arab threads ...which are ONLY about one side or the other always have to call on the bad deeds of the OTHER side to justify the crap the side a thread is about?

One word.

Agenda.

Even if a disclaimer is posted, right at the beginning of the thread, to make it seem like there isn't one.

Wouldn't you agree??

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Why do *ALL* of the Israel OR Arab threads ...which are ONLY about one side or the other always have to call on the bad deeds of the OTHER side to justify the crap the side a thread is about?

One word.

Agenda.

Even if a disclaimer is posted, right at the beginning of the thread, to make it seem like there isn't one.

Wouldn't you agree??

edit on 28-8-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

Agreed. We *ALL* have an agenda... Whether it's to make Israel look good/bad, the Arabs look good/bad, a combination of both...or just the desire to see a middle ground acknowledged if not accepted. Indeed... Whether everyone will admit it, even to themselves in private, we all have one. I agree entirely there.

***Disclaimer: How you respond to this is your Karma - not mine***

Having read this thread and many others of similar theme, no one is addressing the elephant in the room so I will..........

When my 2 children fight over the possession of something I will take said possession off both of them - irrespective of ownership - I am the father and I teach them to share and to give more than take - period.

Not once, I repeat, NOT ONCE, has this never not worked - 100% full proof way of resolving the issue in my house.

I am the lord and master of my house and I run a tight and well oiled family, with the blessing of my wife - I care not for my childrens excuses as to why each deserves the possession in question - they learn their lesson(s) very very quickly when neither gets it. Guess what happens now - they share and have respect for each other............and they know damn well that if they spiral back into it again I will come down on both, equally, and without pity.

This is the wisdom of Solomon - this is how I was raised.

We, all of us, who are not there in this most cherished of lands are the lords and masters of this house we are currently discussing - we ALL are because this situation is effecting all of us in one way, shape or form.

Neither side in this perpetual situation deserves the possession they are so dedicated to preserving.

As lords and masters - the way to resolve the situation is simple - take it away from both of them and if that means a paradigm shift for history to record then so be it. - they will eventually learn to share and not fight - for only then will they understand the value of the possession.

Now............easier said than done right?......yes that is a no-brainer.

Do we as masters have the means and resources?............you bet your bloody bottom dollar that we do.

How is this achieved?

(Hint: Enron / China builds huge ghost cities in South Africa / Crooked Billionaire bank accounts and lifestyles / refer ATS website for further examples)

Paradigm shifting stuff is needed.................or we just keep going and going and going..............

And of course prove to me one side deserves it more than the other WITHOUT using history & religion - those two excuses flew out the door long long ago.

I'll repeat " I care not for (insert which ever side suits you) excuses as to why each deserves the possession in question - they learn their lesson(s) very very quickly when neither gets it"

Since I can remember this has always seemed like the only way to resolve this issue that we all feel so passionate about.

In adopting this strategy - the logistics will fall into place.

End of rant...flame away

Originally posted by arit_
An outsider would not understand it...
***snip***
We were happy to return to Israeli territory after each visit to the West Bank and Gaza.

Two sentences separated by a story about everyday life for an israeli soldier. I think I understand how you must have felt. Perhaps you could try to understand how they feel? After all - you are the outsider when entering West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Those two sentences are important. Perhaps the whole situation could be eased considerably if Israel went back to their own territory and concentrated their efforts around defending their borders from within Israel.

Was this interesting?

Yes. Thank you.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
***snip***
Naww.. B.S. If that had been a barrage of rocks, so bad as to strap a kid down as a human shield...just where is ONE rock. ONE chip of a rock..or even the scuff of a rock's impact to the hood, grills or roof of any exposed surface of the vehicles?

It's too easy to make that shot

Most rock have a tendy NOT to defy gravity. They fall to the ground, hence the absense of rocks in the picture.

If you can't see the marks on the vehicles you should try tossing a few rocks onto yur car and see what the damage will look like.
Apart from that I'm sure it is simply for better vision that windows and glass is screened by mesh. Those stories about rock throwing are vicious lies. Just as they were in Northern Ireland. Even if we saw pictures and videos of it. Lies I tell you.

***snip***
I KNOW Israeli Soldiers have been busted on some real vile abuse. It happens in every military on Earth. Some more than others..and the fact Israel *IS* busting their people for it means they don't encourage it. Show me a nation with troops in contact with any opposition where abuse does not take place though. I'l love to see...any one. Any example in the world for sustained operations with an opposing force.

I'm sure that "every army does it", makes it all right.

Perhaps OP just wanted to make sure that we all see that those who call themselves Gods chosen people behave very unlike chosen people. Rather than being the God Loving people they claim to be.
Perhaps it is because we need to understand that jews believe in "An Eye For An Eye" (eg. revenge is good) rather than the christians who defend them who believe in "Turn the other cheek."

But we have a common enemy here. Muslims who say that "we are peaceful - but woe to those who step on us."

Ring a bell?

The government of Israel, lead by their very founders (labeled as terrorist organizations by the British Government) the Stern, Leahy and Irgun gangs, lost the moral high ground before the country was ever formed.

I don't really see anything wrong with it..if all these people are throwing rocks, and this child also.. When they put the boy on the vehicle why didn't his own people that were throwing rocks stop, clearly it's not really the police's fault if his own people are stupid and aiming at the poor kid. It was a tactic to stop them from throwing rocks, but the crowd was to stupid to stop, and clearly was aiming at the poor child. It's not as bad as the Taliban using children as shields and actually shoot while hes infront of them, same with other middle east countries do that, hide behind women and children..It's a sad world, they're cowards if you ask me..If you're man enough to hold a gun and shoot it, but not man enough to face the consequences for your actions that you have to take an innocent child to protect you.. Than you sir, should be shot...

Both sides use human shields and it's just daft to use this point to differentiate between them, they both feel complete justification for the many morally indefensible acts they commit.
While there may be no realistic solution to this conflict in the short to medium term at least, both sides have nationalism and religion as their motivation, so it is really not so hard to see the root of the problem.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
That photo is hilarious. A boy with what looks like bomb gear strapped to himself yet he is wearing a Nike shirt which is a western brand may I add. Confused?

the nike shirt is most likely donated clothes aid, or a locally produced fake... it's unlikely that he went to to the nearest retail park and purchased expensive imported clothing for the kudos of the brand.

edit on 28-8-2012 by skalla because: clarity

One day we will learn to live together with love in our hearts, not hatred. We won't fight and kill each other over some dusty bit of land. We won't try to starve each other over some dusty old religion. But while people would rather throw poo at each other on the internet, never forgetting the past, never hoping for a better future, just walking along with hatred in one hand and revenge in the other hand, this will continue.

This thread is full of the same hatred and blatant wilful misunderstanding and misrepresentation which permits horrible acts to occur ON BOTH SIDES.

It is time to stop arguing about "who started it" (I remember Junior school where "He Started it" was the first thing every kid shouted when the teachers arrived, grow up ffs).

If we loved each other as we are told to by Christianity, Judaism, Islam and all other religions, discussions like this one would never occur.

Open your hearts brothers and sisters. This thread and those like it serve only to prolong all our misery.