Mental Illness--how the hell do they expect to make it? (Anxiety, Rage, Bi-polar, Ect)

reply to post by moniesisfun

So I'm really not concerned. I think it will be challenging and am kind of looking forward to it. If it gets incredibly berserk, just a quick hanging will suffice. No worries here.

Self fulfilled prophecy.

If you say it, it might just one day happen.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by moniesisfun

 

So I'm really not concerned. I think it will be challenging and am kind of looking forward to it. If it gets incredibly berserk, just a quick hanging will suffice. No worries here.

Self fulfilled prophecy.

If you say it, it might just one day happen.

No clue what you mean by that. I'm not in control of society.

reply to post by moniesisfun


I mean if you say you will hang yourself, you will likely find yourself in that scenario one day.

If life, and living, and being, aren't something worth suffering for, then I guess you would have no choice but to kill yourself.

I could never bring myself to say that, let alone think about doing that. But not saying it - is the beginning and first step in not doing it.

The fact that you say it so easily as if it weren't a problem means you probably would do it.

I just can't imagine how anyone could so easily say that; well, what I mean to say is, I know what it takes to say that - in terms of your personality -but it just saddens me to see other people speak so frivolously of the gift of living.

You know, after you 'end it' that's it. No more consciousness; at most, just semi-conscious suffering.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by moniesisfun

 

I mean if you say you will hang yourself, you will likely find yourself in that scenario one day.

Damned, that's some bizarre reasoning you got there! I guess you have no clue how much I've imagined as being possible for my future life! It must be that I'll live passed 1,000 by your reasoning!

While this may hold true for you, it certainly doesn't for me. Sorry, that just reads like complete nonsense from my point of view.

I meant it exactly as I said. That I'm good for an awesome challenge, but if it gets far too rough, screw it I'm out. Life is very easy for me right now, and I see no reason to off myself unless civilization collapses, essentially.

If life, and living, and being, aren't something worth suffering for, then I guess you would have no choice but to kill yourself.

I could never bring myself to say that, let alone think about doing that. But not saying it - is the beginning and first step in not doing it.

Again, bizarre. Have you never done things unconsciously that you don't "think" about? Have you never had new thoughts? Are you afraid to have dark thoughts? I just don't get this line of reasoning. Thinking is...thinking...doing is...doing.

The fact that you say it so easily as if it weren't a problem means you probably would do it.

Erm, you just don't know me. Please refrain from making these stupid assumptions. I don't process like you. This black and white assumptions really ticks me off, tbh.

I just can't imagine how anyone could so easily say that; well, what I mean to say is, I know what it takes to say that - in terms of your personality -but it just saddens me to see other people speak so frivolously of the gift of living.

Dude, get real. People off their selves all the time. If the scenario is hardcore, and I'm not willing to have a decent chance of being ass raped before my innards are pulled out my spine while I'm still alive...I'll off myself. You can choose to not think of this possibility, and live through hell...good luck!

You know, after you 'end it' that's it. No more consciousness; at most, just semi-conscious suffering.

Um, no. Nothing happens. Lights go out, and I stop existing....and what? Life goes on elsewhere...new chapter...happy ending.



Let me guess...you're an INFJ! You need to temper your Ni with some solid Ti, bro. It's going berserk and leaping to nonsensical conclusions!

reply to post by moniesisfun

Damned, that's some bizarre reasoning you got there!

The idea of a self fulfilled prophecy is bizarre reasoning?

I guess you have no clue how much I've imagined as being possible for my future life!

I just just think it's healthier to resist talking about what you 'could' do. Many others would claim the same.

I meant it exactly as I said. That I'm good for an awesome challenge

You look as it, frankly, from the viewpoint of someone hopped up on energy, i.e. emotion, not thinking very clearly.

While the idea of a major 'challenge' sounds fun to you, there are other ways to cogitate whats ahead, ways which avoid ebullient outbursts which bring you in two opposite extremes: either you are up for the challenge, or if you lose, you kill yourself.

If thats the only two things you can imagine, I can only hope you find some spiritual mooring in your life, because life and living deserves more than to be seen as a video game.

Again, bizarre. Have you never done things unconsciously that you don't "think" about?

I try not to. That's the idea of spiritual growth; those 'dark areas' where conscious is controlled from without by impromptu emotional spurs, need to be 'enlightened' by consciousness.

Yes, everyone acts that way. Human beings are most relaxed and themselves when not self conscious i.e transcending themselves, or put another way, not conscious of their actions. But that doesn't mean we don't have a moral responsibility to ourselves and others, which in turn demands reflection upon our actions to make sure they are in accord with our highest aims, the good of our loved ones and ultimately societies general good.

I think saying something like "I will kill myself" and many psychologists and spiritual minded people would agree with me, is more than just a stupid thought put into words, but a forecast for what may possibly happen.

If you lack the restraint to think and speak a certain way, you will almost certainly lack the resolve to not act in accord with your impulse.

re you afraid to have dark thoughts

I have had too many dark thoughts in my life. I'm not afraid of them, I just think very little of them. They serve no purpose but to destroy and create dysfunction.

Erm, you just don't know me. Please refrain from making these stupid assumptions. I don't process like you. This black and white assumptions really ticks me off, tbh.

It's basic psychology. If you don't like it, complain to God or nature for making our minds work this way. I'm merely noting and presenting to you the facts of what usually happen. If you say it so easily, you will probably do it.

I know, I had a mother who used to threaten suicide often and actually did it a few times. I always saw her willingness to speak that way - to speak so flippantly of the value of her life - as a direct force in her actually attempting it.

Say what you will, what I'm saying is true.

Dude, get real. People off their selves all the time. If the scenario is hardcore, and I'm not willing to have a decent chance of being ass raped before my innards are pulled out my spine while I'm still alive...I'll off myself.

Aye, that's a bit superficial. People tend to not kill themselves for such fantastical reasons. It's just depression, or anxiety - a neurosis - or an essential unhappiness with the course of their lives, that usually lends to thoughts of suicide.

In the scenario you described, ya, it's understandable that someone would kill themselves. I don't vilify those Jews who committed suicide rather than go to Hitlers concentration camp; personally, I would prefer to die in the way of fighting rather than just off my self in dejection, or in protestation.

Certain scenarios make suicide morally plausible, but overall, I think there's a grace and value in suffering. I would never utter the words 'i will kill myself' because I fear the effect they could have on my unconscious thinking;

Words are also things.

Um, no. Nothing happens. Lights go out, and I stop existing....and what?

Yes, that is the modern narrative, life ends, game over.

You're not afraid of that? It's pretty natural to be.

But what about the remote possibility, posited by all mystical traditions that the consciousness persists after death in another form? If you killed yourself in a state of existential worry, suffering and agitation, chances are you would persist in that state for quite sometime until those forces which led to that state exhausted themselves; and you, the semi conscious self, experiencing this spiritual turmoil in a fragmented condition, would still suffer,

It's hard to know exactly, but I believe it. I think a residue subsists, and I think you should get yourself in a positive state before you check out.

reply to post by dontreally


I will win the lottery!

I will kill all humans!

I will be king kong in my next incarnation!

So they will likely happen, because thoughts are things, and I'm likely to manifest them because I say it so easily



It's idiotic. You're projecting the way YOU process onto the whole of humanity.

If you want to believe in "human nature" you go right ahead, but you won't grasp the individual, you'll just sum up what has already been in general terms.

Many of these mental issues become unimportant when faced with death. Fear can be a miraculous cure! Depression and anxiety seem to disappear when people are struggling to survive.

reply to post by moniesisfun

I will win the lottery! I will kill all humans! I will be king kong in my next incarnation!

Can you think in a way different from reductionist logic?

I will win the lottery, and I will kill all humans, are different statements. Each has their own internal logic. I will win the lottery? Well, everyone who buys a lottery ticket wants to win the lottery, so that makes it to mostly an issue of sheer luck. I will kill all humans - that is not something you are likely to do, and if you did say it, it would probably be in a comical way, not meant seriously. And the king kong thing is clearly to ridiculous to bother explaining.

What we say to ourselves i.e. "I would kill myself if it became too hard", already determines how you will act when the time comes. Aren't you committing yourself by that affirmation to that particular action? Yes? Then it is likely that your future thoughts will follow the same pattern. If you are ever so disheveled by the difficulties of life, and the thought pops in your mind "end it", then you, having already committed yourself a number of times to "killing yourself", will feel less restraint not to do it, since it made sense to you before, why shouldn't that understanding predispose you to thinking and acting the same again?

So they will likely happen, because thoughts are things, and I'm likely to manifest them because I say it so easily

This isn't a new age 'thoughts are things' idea, but rather, thoughts gradually become things; its how we think which first determines our actions; the thought appearsin the action, making the thought and action virtually indistinguishable.

I'm saying if you commit yourself to one way of acting in thought, then you are highly likely to confom to that thought in action.

It's basic.

Even psychology admits that thinking builds emotional 'contents' within the collective unconscious (which doesn't have to be understood as ontological). If you do the same thing in thought over and over again, this dynamic begins to live a 'life of its own', perpetuating that action like a habit which acts independent of the wills volition.

It's idiotic. You're projecting the way YOU process onto the whole of humanity.

The mainstream would agree with my interpretation of your saying "I would kill myself".

If you want to believe in "human nature" you go right ahead, but you won't grasp the individual, you'll just sum up what has already been in general terms.

Take Nietzsche. Nietzsche thought up a doctrine that sees man as essentially will; that the 'superman' acts independently from external circumstance. But look at Nietzsche. Isn't it a massive irony that Nietzsche suffered a nervous breakdown - itself a capitulation to external emotions which commandeer the conscious mind - and then had to be taken care of by his sister for the final 11 years of his life. His life should be seen as a touchstone for what God (or if you prefer, universal law) thought of his elitist philosophy.

I'm not trying to bother or bug you; I just would like you to realize - so you never have the thought of suicide pass through your mind - the importance of not saying something which have feelings that you would possibly do.

But thats the thing: you don't care about dying, meaning, you don't care whether your thought and saying will actually lead to action; but you still complain that "theres no relationship to thought and action".

It's stupid. You're wrong.

And just for clarity, i'm stupid for even bothering to impress this point on you.

reply to post by dontreally


Dude, you're just dumb.

Not worth my time.

Originally posted by earthdude
Many of these mental issues become unimportant when faced with death. Fear can be a miraculous cure! Depression and anxiety seem to disappear when people are struggling to survive.

Which brings to mind a previous post I made here in this thread. See, I came back to the thread to see what happened. And your comment immediately grabbed my attention. See, I stated to another member in the thread that perhaps mental illness in modern times is a result of oudated genes or instinct. Something similar can be seen with obesity. Back before machines and clocks and electromagnetic induction and various other technologies, we would eat in times of plenty to survive in times of scarcity. We would eat in spring and summer to fatten up for the winter. But in modern times this song and dance doesn't work. Instead it produces lots of fat people. So maybe what you say in your post is related.... I often think about it since I've had work off and on in my life. When I'm not employed I get depressed about my life. When I'm working, I generally feel much better and in command. It may be our natural state to work and maybe that's how it has always been. I realized that circumstances can produce anxiety, that it's not universal, just as you suggest. Similarly, I believe I have a social anxiety disorder. When I am around other people I am extra conscious of them and exaggerate my importance in the scheme of things, but when I'm alone or with familiar people I generally am comfortable. As for where my SAD comes from, it may or may not be related to the teasing I experienced early in life. I wonder if my genetics caused this or specific circumstances.

Is mental illness universal, from culture to culture, and equally distributed? I would expect if it were like the obesity problem that we may see less of it in more primitive cultures?

I haven't stated it, but I do not like all the psychotropic drugs. I have a couple family members on them and I honestly think the cure is as bad as the illness. I don't see a benefit. There're studies that say the drugs are good, but there're studies that say they're almost useless too.

Like this one:
abcnews.go.com - Study: Antidepressants,...

Now, some people would harm others without the drugs. Or they'd end up killing themselves. But on the drugs they're not much better than zombies. It might help someone, but it doesn't help the person suffering directly from it very much. Ultimately, I see it as society wanting to protect itself from them but yet not to see them on the streets or have to hear about their frequent suicides. It's like sweeping a problem under the rug for convenience. I'm sure there're many success stories where people on these drugs claim that without the drugs they'd be on the streets or dead. I hear that and I'm not ignoring it. But going on these drugs should be a choice. I believe that too many kids are put on these drugs not by choice but essentially by parental force. It's a generation of drug addicts.

I don't want to be cured of SAD or OCPD or INTP or whatever else I might be diagnosed with. I'm just not trust anymore of our institution. But I am willing to work through it and notice my faults. However, I'm not going to sit back lightly and let a stuffed shirt run down a list of my problems and treat me as damaged goods. I believe that, damaged goods or not, I am who I am and I'm not going to live the rest of my life led like a sheep, trying to resist my own natural impulses and interests.

Now this is a great question and I fear there may be a not so great answer. I fear that many with mental illness would die. There are people from all over the world even right now, living in the streets, starving and even dieing because they are not getting the help they need, either because they can't afford it or just don't know they need help....Or countless other reasons as well...

Now, imagine we live in a world where all that help no longer exists. Those who do get help can't just run up to the pharmacy to pick up their prescription or up to the doctor to tell them whats going on.... So we would be in a world where lots of people who need help cannot get it and eventually, if their symptoms and suffering are bad enough, I suppose they would die


But really, the same could be said for people with other kinds of illness as well. what if you have cancer or something and are unable to receive treatment? Or a brain tumor or....Again countless other things?

Long answer short is that lots of people would be screwed and I can see lots of the population dieing off fairly quickly

Originally posted by Socrato
I understand exactly what you are talking about. Someone closest to me is very frail mentally and I have been fighting to keep her off meds for as long as we have been together. I'm afraid she would go utterly suicidal like the wife in the movie The Road if society collapsed... but then again, who wouldn't?

My only hope is the fact that most of these mental illnesses are "diseases of society" so to speak so maybe when TSHTF these folks will suddenly come into their element and be alive like never before.

I believe many of them will "step up to the plate" as their DNA makeup includes the "will to survive."
I think "diseases of society" also include all the cool technology that many of us fear we can't live without.

reply to post by moniesisfun

He's just saying that by opening your mind up to the option of hanging yourself that it leaves you vulnerable to it in the future. Honestly, you opened a door and you might not be able to close it. Now that the door is open your mind might come across it in the future when you confront adversity. You mentioned an extreme example, but what if less extreme examples cause you to pause at the door?

But then again is this just all wild paranoia or slippery slope thinking? I'm sure there's a psychology book somewhere that says you're more likely to off yourself since you left the option on the table, so maybe it's not irrational paranoia. But then again, maybe the fact that you have it on the table now just means that you could do it when the time comes, but it doesn't guarantee it will happen. Another words, we know you're a determined if impulsive man, but whether or not you'll actually kill yourself in the future is still an open question, although we've established that if the right conditions fall into place that you have the recklessness and impassioned will to follow through with it.

The way I said it doesn't make you look so bad anymore. Determined if impulsive. I mean, you got a centered look in your eye but hiding behind your composure is a flame that yields to no one.

To be honest, I worry about people close to me but myself... honestly, the reality of what could happen is a reason in weaning off meds I was prescribed for temporarily anyway. Nothing big, I've never really been diagnosed with anything but ADHD, but this was for mood stuff. I'm hardly on anything now, though I would likely have panic attacks without even the small amount of benzo I'm on... I think the adrenaline in a situation like the one you're describing would override that. I can't speak for others, and I worry about the mentally disabled, as well.. something I've thought about,... we shouldn't be scared just prepared haha. but thanks for bringing it up OP.