Service to Self is better than Service to Others (Please read before judging!)

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posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Sorry. Doesn't matter which way you try to say it, which way you try to explain your point. Fact is..if you can look at someone genuinely hungry, cold, dirty, no clothing, no shelter, sick, in need in anyway, and not help them, when you yourself have what you need to live, that does not make you "free" that makes you a sociopathic Jerk, with no feeling, no heart, no conscience at all. I personally would not associate myself nor befriend a person who could be so selfish, and cruel and just so self absorbed. I mean...what does that mean then..when you have kids.. "oh, sorry kid, if I feed you..I'm your slave" "oh, sorry mom..if I help you while you have cancer, I'm your slave" I mean..and then imagine the tables being turned...your hungry, your cold, your sick, you have no shelter, but I say..Sorry, bud, if I help you out I'm your slave...take a hike. Thoughts like this, and reasoning are exactly whats wrong with this world and country. And tonight it just really hits me worse than others.. no, not pmsing..just really fed up with the way people think these days.




posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by arpgme
 


Sorry. Doesn't matter which way you try to say it, which way you try to explain your point. Fact is..if you can look at someone genuinely hungry, cold, dirty, no clothing, no shelter, sick, in need in anyway, and not help them, when you yourself have what you need to live, that does not make you "free" that makes you a sociopathic Jerk, with no feeling, no heart, no conscience at all. I personally would not associate myself nor befriend a person who could be so selfish, and cruel and just so self absorbed. I mean...what does that mean then..when you have kids.. "oh, sorry kid, if I feed you..I'm your slave" "oh, sorry mom..if I help you while you have cancer, I'm your slave" I mean..and then imagine the tables being turned...your hungry, your cold, your sick, you have no shelter, but I say..Sorry, bud, if I help you out I'm your slave...take a hike. Thoughts like this, and reasoning are exactly whats wrong with this world and country. And tonight it just really hits me worse than others.. no, not pmsing..just really fed up with the way people think these days.


That's not what he said. Keep reading the posts. No one would act like what you were describing as long as the person had enough to spare.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by arpgme
 



I simply said that instead of helping people all the time, we should teach them to help themselves so that they can be independent and free from depending on others.


No one helps others every waking minute. And by the way you are speaking it is very obvious you have never been in need as a lot of the time....PEOPLE CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES.

If a person does not have any insurance and has a medical ailment requiring a prescription, if they do not get it, they will die. If you buy it for them, or give them your left over pills, it is against your self interest, but it means the world to the person receiving it. They have absolutely no way to get the funds on their own. They are also dependent on;

1. Pills
2. Pharmaceutical companies
3. Trucks that drive the pharmaceuticals to the store
4. Doctors to write the prescription
5. Petroleum fuel
5. Everything else....

You're dependent on a million different things yourself. This "dependent" argument is senseless because you cannot make everything you may need in life to survive, like medicine. Unless you live on a farm, you are dependent on corporations to ship FOOD to your area, and another corporation to put it in a store, for you to purchase. You can in no way believe any sort of "independent" ideology unless you are 100% self sufficient. Money doesn't buy true independence.


Helping a person in their struggle is OK. Becoming "service to others" and always giving, giving, giving, instead of teaching them to be independent and do things by themselves is another story.


This goes against your entire OP, as you said people should only be fixated on their own self interest. Now you are just backtracking.


in fact it did since even animals knew better than to keep depending on others and to actually DO for themselves.


There are a ton of animals that depend on one another, like most primates! Humans are one of them.....as we depend on social contact or we go absolutely insane.


Then every single human and animals alive is a "psychopath" if that is what selfishness is. Everyone is selfish to some extent and to say otherwise is to be a liar.


Incorrect, most humans have the ability to feel empathy. Psychopaths who are born such, tend to have damage to areas of the brain that process emotion. You can be an incredibly selfish person and still feel guilt for the things you do, psychopaths won't.


People help others to feel good about themselves, that they "did" something for another.


Here you go again, showing your psychopathy. Maybe you do, since you have a ego problem. But if I tend to help someone, say I give them a ride to work...I'm doing that to make myself feel better? Are you kidding me. I probably did it so they wouldn't get fired......



And you know what the corporations are doing? GIVING people jobs!


Incorrect, without the worker there would be no corporation, without the consumer there would be no profit in order to create a job. It's all an interdependent system upon one another, I know, you hate to hear that, but it's true.


People sit like slaves in a factory working all day for a "dollar" knowing that they are being taken advantage of but they allow it to happen, why? Because they don't think about They have low SELF-esteem, so they don't speak up.


LOL?! Are you kidding me? They do it because they live in extreme poverty and are forced to or starve. You should also study history a bit, when workers would organize, form unions, or protest...they would end up killed a lot of the times BY THE CORPORATIONS. It still happens in lesser developed countries, with those slave wages. They are there by force, threats, and no other choice.

colombiajournal.org...


This is what happens when you begin to hate the SELF or try to put focus on another. You get scare to speak up when you are being taken advantage of


No, this is what happens when someone has a gun to your head. If someone robbed you at gunpoint, pretty sure you're going to give up all the goods, 99% of people do.


edit on 27-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)


I'm so glad you broke this down... Not for the OP bc psychopaths will never be swayed in their dysfunction, but for the people who read such circular logic and get caught up in it without applying any further analysis. This is how most have been led astray by the psychopaths in power.

I believe the OP knows EXACTLY what he's saying and that it's inflammatory. Psychopaths feed off this crap. He's not trying to spread infectious happiness... Quite the opposite in fact and LOVING every minute of it.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by arpgme
 


Sorry. Doesn't matter which way you try to say it, which way you try to explain your point. Fact is..if you can look at someone genuinely hungry, cold, dirty, no clothing, no shelter, sick, in need in anyway, and not help them, when you yourself have what you need to live...


Did I say "not" help people? No. I said help them to help themselves. Help them and teach them to be SELF dependent, so that they can be FREE of depending on you.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
Well thanks for the rendition. I originally intended for you to only read my posts from this thread. Not ALL of my posts I've made. Sorry you had to do that.


Lol, no problem, I thought you may have made your own thread regarding this subject, but in a different way.


Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
The main thing I'd like to address here is that most people here are misunderstanding OPer in that he never said that helping others would not make him feel better. What it sounded like is that he was stressing the importance of focusing on the self, but since he doesn't try to confirm my posts, I guess I'm just speculating. I admit, it's a bit cryptic and I'm beginning to get bitter about it, but in the same line I think he was also trying to say, "Give a man a fish and you feed him one meal. Teach a man to fish and you feed him forever." So several posters are just taking it and running with it saying, "you're evil for being selfish! You should help those in need." They're missing the mark. It's also odd that he's not trying to clarify in ways that are meaningful to folks

He was definitely right in saying that everyone is at least a little selfish. I'd even say we are 100% selfish as every action we take, we do to somehow feel better. If helping someone out makes me feel better, I'm going to do that because I'm selfish.

Your concern that he as the OP needs to know what he was talking about. That was a snippet between another poster and myself. They were not concerned with what he was saying, but whether he knew what he was talking about. I thought it doesn't matter whether he was correct or not if I were able to explain it to folks in a way they understood, doesn't that solve the issues caused by the topic itself?


But what if you or anybody else is not here to clarify what the OP is trying to say?

For a start, lets look at the title of this thread, "Service to self is better than service to others", now thats quite a statement! There are plenty of other titles that would have been better used to describe this topic. By reading this title, people who happen to disagree will already be in a defensive mood!

Then when the message is not very clear, it just makes things a lot more difficult overall.

Also, like you say, "What it sounded like is that he was stressing the importance of focusing on the self, but since he doesn't try to confirm my posts, I guess I'm just speculating" there is no confirmation from the OP that what you are trying to clarify is what he/she is originally trying to saying.

Like I have already stated, I'm not trying to attack the OP of this thread, I just wanted to remind the OP of the importance of words, especially the written word in a forum like this.

I understand the underlying meaning of this thread but I feel that for someone who is new to this kind of subject or topic, a simple message should be simply expressed and words carefully chosen...

Gnobody



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by Gnobody
reply to post by arpgme
 


Hi OP

Been following this thread since you created it, I don't happen to agree with you and I'll just leave it at that.

However, I do have a question (please try not to be offended) is English your first language?



I'm not sure if it is my writing style or what - but people always misunderstand me and I wind up having to put more details. Maybe it is a misunderstanding of defined words.

When I say "self love" people may think one thing when I think another. I do not believe in controlling other people! By self love I meant actually loving yourself and filling the lack - need to control / jealousy / etc. with your self love - it will also keep you from being destructive.



"but people always misunderstand"

Have you taken the time to try and understand why? Is it a fault on their part or yours?

I feel that you need to remember that this is a public forum that attracts many a different mind. The words, phrases or definitions you are using to try and express yourself may be OK for a certain forum, or for a group of people that are familiar with the terms you use, such as a dedicated spiritual/metaphysical forum or blog, but this is general conspiracy forum with many different levels of understanding of these subjects.

Anyway, I hope I caused you no offence, and I hope that you can make yourself clearer to others in future threads or posts.

Kind regards

Gnobody



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by SilverStarGazer


I'm so glad you broke this down... Not for the OP bc psychopaths will never be swayed in their dysfunction, but for the people who read such circular logic and get caught up in it without applying any further analysis. This is how most have been led astray by the psychopaths in power.

I believe the OP knows EXACTLY what he's saying and that it's inflammatory. Psychopaths feed off this crap. He's not trying to spread infectious happiness... Quite the opposite in fact and LOVING every minute of it.



No. People are being led astray by the Borg mentality aka group think and can't think for themselves hardly anymore and this might include you. NOT to inflame you, but to get you to see what I see and trying to be effective about it. Not trying to insult you and the OPer isn't either.

This is similar to what it was like when Jesus said his father was God and that he was also God. He also told people that they didn't have to go through the Priest anymore. That they could have strength through God and that royally pissed off most everyone else. This OP is trying to give you guys a gold nugget, but you won't see it. It goes against everything you were taught. Unfortunately we weren't taught many useful lessons in life. Just follow the guy in front of you and you'll be fine.

This is where courage comes into play and this is what courage looks like when he says something that obviously generates passion. See through your own prejudices to look at some truth and please hold back on calling people ugly names like psychopath...It makes you look like a _________.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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The moon analogy you use is as ridiculous as your philosophy. The moon doesn't absorb anything, it reflects light. Furthermore what if what I want is to rape the OP? Should I just go and rape you because it is what I want? Of course not. You should be servicing your fellow man by being helpful and in turn you service your selfishness by feeling good for the good you have provided to the world. Everyone wins
edit on 28-8-2012 by salmoneggs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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We're social animals and have evolved in a social environment. The very nature of society is such that service to others is service to self.

Alone we tend to fall short. By pooling our collective resources we conquered nature and dominated the planet. This is the truth of it. If we all focused only upon ourselves - we'd likely still be cave dwellers or nomads. Cooperation and putting the group before the individual is what enabled us to achieve what we have.

~Heff



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by salmoneggs
You should be servicing your fellow man
edit on 28-8-2012 by salmoneggs because: (no reason given)


You forgot to say no pun intended.


The OP is not expressing his or herself very well...



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

We're social animals and have evolved in a social environment. The very nature of society is such that service to others is service to self.

Alone we tend to fall short. By pooling our collective resources we conquered nature and dominated the planet. This is the truth of it. If we all focused only upon ourselves - we'd likely still be cave dwellers or nomads. Cooperation and putting the group before the individual is what enabled us to achieve what we have.

~Heff


This is what everyone on this forum is saying and I don't think the OP is in opposition to that. I keep saying that at least part of what he's saying is that you can't forget yourself in all this. You need to build that up first, which is something people seem to forget. They get so caught up in what others are doing, they don't even know what they themselves are doing.

Know thyself and thou shalt know the Universe. When you know yourself, you know what you need as well as others. You are better equipped that way. This is an improvement, not a digression. Look at all the people on the government's dole right now that could help themselves, but don't. And yes. They can get up and work, they just don't want to make less than the government will give them and be working for it as well.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 





It is not about the "Money" it is about the "Me". I don't slave for anything nor do need anything to make myself feel "better". I am absolutely perfect as is.


"Its not about Money" then i take that as you have never charged anyone ever $$$ for your enlightened advice.

"I don't slave for anything nor do need anything to make myself feel "better". So whats your definition of slaving, do you see the ordinary guy working a job as slaving? Do you see a mother staying at home bringing up the hosueholder a slaving? Lets me perfectly clear on what you are say please.


"I am absolutely perfect as is." If your so perfect then why are you here?




There are beings/people who seem to be "apathetic" but really they are helping people in secret, so be careful who you judge.


If ascension to self leads to ultimately conception of the whole, then a person must make a decision at that point whether to become a controller of the whole and lose individuality of self, or maintain individuality of self and relinquish all controlling desires. Those who choose the last will have to relinquish all concerns of the self to attain total freedom and strength which allows the unity of self to be maintained inside of totality.

Any forms of the self practice that lead to desires for control over the external the person will be deluding themselves they have reached a perfect form.
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 





The Universe on all its dimensions and channels is like a giant game of snakes and ladders.


Your the wisest person on this thread Unity. What better and simple way to explain about the role of the self and how it fits intro life.!!

Wow your replies always amaze me.




edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:57 PM
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I believe the OP knows EXACTLY what he's saying and that it's inflammatory. Psychopaths feed off this crap. He's not trying to spread infectious happiness... Quite the opposite in fact and LOVING every minute of it.
reply to post by SilverStarGazer
 


I think the OP has taken a battering on here. Mabey we should cut her some slack because. It was a good thread, evern if there was some inconsistences in her arguments on self, all the same it was very entertaining i found. I think some of the confusions have come about because she is used to addressing a meta physical audience which i presume is the social circle she mixes in. Personally i am a layman i have had no exposure to metaphysical concepts ever and couldnt ever tell you the name of one of the new age leader crowd.
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: because its all smoke and mirrors



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by arpgme
 


Sorry. Doesn't matter which way you try to say it, which way you try to explain your point. Fact is..if you can look at someone genuinely hungry, cold, dirty, no clothing, no shelter, sick, in need in anyway, and not help them, when you yourself have what you need to live...


Did I say "not" help people? No. I said help them to help themselves. Help them and teach them to be SELF dependent, so that they can be FREE of depending on you.



How do you teach a blind person to see again?
Whats so wrong with depending on other people?



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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Just do what you want.
What you really want, do you know what it is?
First try to know what you want deep down, not what others want, what YOU want!

Then do it.

If people did this, the world would be a much better place to live.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Gnobody
Have you taken the time to try and understand why? Is it a fault on their part or yours?

I feel that you need to remember that this is a public forum that attracts many a different mind. The words, phrases or definitions you are using to try and express yourself may be OK for a certain forum, or for a group of people that are familiar with the terms you use, such as a dedicated spiritual/metaphysical forum or blog, but this is general conspiracy forum with many different levels of understanding of these subjects.


Which is why I EXPLAINED what I meant by the words that I was using. Most just didn't care to see the definitions/interpretations I've given (which means they didn't actually READ my whole original post) and they assume the first thing and then reply with ignorant comments like this:


Originally posted by salmoneggs
Furthermore what if what I want is to rape the OP? Should I just go and rape you because it is what I want?


This is not my problem if people refuse to read the entire original post and therefore have confusion of what I meant.

Makes me think that what this guy said is true:


Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
No. People are being led astray by the Borg mentality aka group think and can't think for themselves hardly anymore...


I used words and I even GAVE my interpretation of those words but still people cling to the borg mentality.


Originally posted by AthlonSavage
"I am absolutely perfect as is." If your so perfect then why are you here?


To hear other perspectives and see if one resonates with me more than I have now. Doesn't make me any less perfect, I just increase in my perfection. Perfection is infinite a pattern like Fibonacci (I believe).

Are you offended that I said that? Do you feel that you are "not" perfect? Because you are. But that perfection can always expand even more. There are no mistakes only opportunities to find a perspective which resonates more with you.


Originally posted by Tardacus
How do you teach a blind person to see again?


You don't, you just teach them how to guide themselves even though they can't see. Teach them to use the other senses more to "feel" the environment. What happens if this person doesn't have any family or friends to depend on? They'll just be left in darkness and hopeless... So why not teach them to be independent by feeling for the environment so they can become very skilled at it?


Originally posted by Tardacus
Whats so wrong with depending on other people?


It takes your energy, and it keeps the other person weak instead of growing stronger...

Dependence is Bondage / Slavery. Independent is Freedom. Why would you want to keep someone "dependent" on you when you can teach them to be a free and strong being?



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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OP: I just wanted to add that I think the reason you came off to a number of people as "thinking in black and white" is that you used some very generalized terms in your arguments, without too many specifics. e.g. "service to others."

I think some might even define teaching a man to fish (as opposed to giving him one) as a way of "serving" his fellow man.

I think that both compassion for others, and respect for self are vital parts of a truly healthy personality. If one or the other is too strong, one can see negative effects manifest-- as it is with all things.



posted on Aug, 29 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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To hear other perspectives and see if one resonates with me more than I have now. Doesn't make me any less perfect, I just increase in my perfection. Perfection is infinite a pattern like Fibonacci (I believe).

Are you offended that I said that? Do you feel that you are "not" perfect? Because you are. But that perfection can always expand even more. There are no mistakes only opportunities to find a perspective which resonates more with you.
reply to post by arpgme
 



No not offended. Your right. I dont want war with you!. Peace and love will bring unity to our differences.
edit on 29-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: im not perfect i just work at being the best i can.



posted on Aug, 31 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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I think serving a master is much different than being of service to your brother. Whenever you are serving a master you are searching for approval where it need not be gained, where as when you serve a brother, you approve of your-self..




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