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Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by arpgme
Sorry. Doesn't matter which way you try to say it, which way you try to explain your point. Fact is..if you can look at someone genuinely hungry, cold, dirty, no clothing, no shelter, sick, in need in anyway, and not help them, when you yourself have what you need to live, that does not make you "free" that makes you a sociopathic Jerk, with no feeling, no heart, no conscience at all. I personally would not associate myself nor befriend a person who could be so selfish, and cruel and just so self absorbed. I mean...what does that mean then..when you have kids.. "oh, sorry kid, if I feed you..I'm your slave" "oh, sorry mom..if I help you while you have cancer, I'm your slave" I mean..and then imagine the tables being turned...your hungry, your cold, your sick, you have no shelter, but I say..Sorry, bud, if I help you out I'm your slave...take a hike. Thoughts like this, and reasoning are exactly whats wrong with this world and country. And tonight it just really hits me worse than others.. no, not pmsing..just really fed up with the way people think these days.
Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by arpgme
I simply said that instead of helping people all the time, we should teach them to help themselves so that they can be independent and free from depending on others.
No one helps others every waking minute. And by the way you are speaking it is very obvious you have never been in need as a lot of the time....PEOPLE CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES.
If a person does not have any insurance and has a medical ailment requiring a prescription, if they do not get it, they will die. If you buy it for them, or give them your left over pills, it is against your self interest, but it means the world to the person receiving it. They have absolutely no way to get the funds on their own. They are also dependent on;
1. Pills
2. Pharmaceutical companies
3. Trucks that drive the pharmaceuticals to the store
4. Doctors to write the prescription
5. Petroleum fuel
5. Everything else....
You're dependent on a million different things yourself. This "dependent" argument is senseless because you cannot make everything you may need in life to survive, like medicine. Unless you live on a farm, you are dependent on corporations to ship FOOD to your area, and another corporation to put it in a store, for you to purchase. You can in no way believe any sort of "independent" ideology unless you are 100% self sufficient. Money doesn't buy true independence.
Helping a person in their struggle is OK. Becoming "service to others" and always giving, giving, giving, instead of teaching them to be independent and do things by themselves is another story.
This goes against your entire OP, as you said people should only be fixated on their own self interest. Now you are just backtracking.
in fact it did since even animals knew better than to keep depending on others and to actually DO for themselves.
There are a ton of animals that depend on one another, like most primates! Humans are one of them.....as we depend on social contact or we go absolutely insane.
Then every single human and animals alive is a "psychopath" if that is what selfishness is. Everyone is selfish to some extent and to say otherwise is to be a liar.
Incorrect, most humans have the ability to feel empathy. Psychopaths who are born such, tend to have damage to areas of the brain that process emotion. You can be an incredibly selfish person and still feel guilt for the things you do, psychopaths won't.
People help others to feel good about themselves, that they "did" something for another.
Here you go again, showing your psychopathy. Maybe you do, since you have a ego problem. But if I tend to help someone, say I give them a ride to work...I'm doing that to make myself feel better? Are you kidding me. I probably did it so they wouldn't get fired......
And you know what the corporations are doing? GIVING people jobs!
Incorrect, without the worker there would be no corporation, without the consumer there would be no profit in order to create a job. It's all an interdependent system upon one another, I know, you hate to hear that, but it's true.
People sit like slaves in a factory working all day for a "dollar" knowing that they are being taken advantage of but they allow it to happen, why? Because they don't think about They have low SELF-esteem, so they don't speak up.
LOL?! Are you kidding me? They do it because they live in extreme poverty and are forced to or starve. You should also study history a bit, when workers would organize, form unions, or protest...they would end up killed a lot of the times BY THE CORPORATIONS. It still happens in lesser developed countries, with those slave wages. They are there by force, threats, and no other choice.
colombiajournal.org...
This is what happens when you begin to hate the SELF or try to put focus on another. You get scare to speak up when you are being taken advantage of
No, this is what happens when someone has a gun to your head. If someone robbed you at gunpoint, pretty sure you're going to give up all the goods, 99% of people do.
edit on 27-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by arpgme
Sorry. Doesn't matter which way you try to say it, which way you try to explain your point. Fact is..if you can look at someone genuinely hungry, cold, dirty, no clothing, no shelter, sick, in need in anyway, and not help them, when you yourself have what you need to live...
Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
Well thanks for the rendition. I originally intended for you to only read my posts from this thread. Not ALL of my posts I've made. Sorry you had to do that.
Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
The main thing I'd like to address here is that most people here are misunderstanding OPer in that he never said that helping others would not make him feel better. What it sounded like is that he was stressing the importance of focusing on the self, but since he doesn't try to confirm my posts, I guess I'm just speculating. I admit, it's a bit cryptic and I'm beginning to get bitter about it, but in the same line I think he was also trying to say, "Give a man a fish and you feed him one meal. Teach a man to fish and you feed him forever." So several posters are just taking it and running with it saying, "you're evil for being selfish! You should help those in need." They're missing the mark. It's also odd that he's not trying to clarify in ways that are meaningful to folks
He was definitely right in saying that everyone is at least a little selfish. I'd even say we are 100% selfish as every action we take, we do to somehow feel better. If helping someone out makes me feel better, I'm going to do that because I'm selfish.
Your concern that he as the OP needs to know what he was talking about. That was a snippet between another poster and myself. They were not concerned with what he was saying, but whether he knew what he was talking about. I thought it doesn't matter whether he was correct or not if I were able to explain it to folks in a way they understood, doesn't that solve the issues caused by the topic itself?
Originally posted by arpgme
Originally posted by Gnobody
reply to post by arpgme
Hi OP
Been following this thread since you created it, I don't happen to agree with you and I'll just leave it at that.
However, I do have a question (please try not to be offended) is English your first language?
I'm not sure if it is my writing style or what - but people always misunderstand me and I wind up having to put more details. Maybe it is a misunderstanding of defined words.
When I say "self love" people may think one thing when I think another. I do not believe in controlling other people! By self love I meant actually loving yourself and filling the lack - need to control / jealousy / etc. with your self love - it will also keep you from being destructive.
Originally posted by SilverStarGazer
I'm so glad you broke this down... Not for the OP bc psychopaths will never be swayed in their dysfunction, but for the people who read such circular logic and get caught up in it without applying any further analysis. This is how most have been led astray by the psychopaths in power.
I believe the OP knows EXACTLY what he's saying and that it's inflammatory. Psychopaths feed off this crap. He's not trying to spread infectious happiness... Quite the opposite in fact and LOVING every minute of it.
Originally posted by salmoneggs
You should be servicing your fellow manedit on 28-8-2012 by salmoneggs because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Hefficide
We're social animals and have evolved in a social environment. The very nature of society is such that service to others is service to self.
Alone we tend to fall short. By pooling our collective resources we conquered nature and dominated the planet. This is the truth of it. If we all focused only upon ourselves - we'd likely still be cave dwellers or nomads. Cooperation and putting the group before the individual is what enabled us to achieve what we have.
~Heff
It is not about the "Money" it is about the "Me". I don't slave for anything nor do need anything to make myself feel "better". I am absolutely perfect as is.
There are beings/people who seem to be "apathetic" but really they are helping people in secret, so be careful who you judge.
The Universe on all its dimensions and channels is like a giant game of snakes and ladders.
reply to post by SilverStarGazer
I believe the OP knows EXACTLY what he's saying and that it's inflammatory. Psychopaths feed off this crap. He's not trying to spread infectious happiness... Quite the opposite in fact and LOVING every minute of it.
Originally posted by arpgme
Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by arpgme
Sorry. Doesn't matter which way you try to say it, which way you try to explain your point. Fact is..if you can look at someone genuinely hungry, cold, dirty, no clothing, no shelter, sick, in need in anyway, and not help them, when you yourself have what you need to live...
Did I say "not" help people? No. I said help them to help themselves. Help them and teach them to be SELF dependent, so that they can be FREE of depending on you.
Originally posted by Gnobody
Have you taken the time to try and understand why? Is it a fault on their part or yours?
I feel that you need to remember that this is a public forum that attracts many a different mind. The words, phrases or definitions you are using to try and express yourself may be OK for a certain forum, or for a group of people that are familiar with the terms you use, such as a dedicated spiritual/metaphysical forum or blog, but this is general conspiracy forum with many different levels of understanding of these subjects.
Originally posted by salmoneggs
Furthermore what if what I want is to rape the OP? Should I just go and rape you because it is what I want?
Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
No. People are being led astray by the Borg mentality aka group think and can't think for themselves hardly anymore...
Originally posted by AthlonSavage
"I am absolutely perfect as is." If your so perfect then why are you here?
Originally posted by Tardacus
How do you teach a blind person to see again?
Originally posted by Tardacus
Whats so wrong with depending on other people?
reply to post by arpgme
To hear other perspectives and see if one resonates with me more than I have now. Doesn't make me any less perfect, I just increase in my perfection. Perfection is infinite a pattern like Fibonacci (I believe).
Are you offended that I said that? Do you feel that you are "not" perfect? Because you are. But that perfection can always expand even more. There are no mistakes only opportunities to find a perspective which resonates more with you.