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Service to Self is better than Service to Others (Please read before judging!)
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They are just stating a universal truth. Does it matter if they say it or someone else?
The way i see it universal truth is out there and is an experience. Here its just bunches of new ages definitions on the self.
Personally Im just in this thread because i know the metaphysical ones always will break down into humoruous arguments. I respect everones opinionns on here and couldnt say who is right or wrong.
The right or wrong is what ever a person wants it to be. The OP i figure is a girl because her Avatar is pink, and the way she has cooked up a good cauldron of half truths, walked away and left it simmer.
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: if your gonna walk then walk, dont
talk!
Please remember folks that if you aren't physically attacked, you're not really attacked and so there's nothing to defend against. Threats seem to
appear, however they are false, raised by your mind. Try your best not to spread pain around to everyone. Also don't look at pain as something that
is real where if you give some of it to a person near you, it makes your load lighter. This is not reality, only insanity.
Read A Course in Miracles. It will blow your mind.
Read A Course in Miracles. It will blow your mind.
Originally posted by AthlonSavage
They are just stating a universal truth. Does it matter if they say it or someone else?
The way i see it universal truth is out there and is an experience. Here its just bunches of new ages definitions on the self.
Personally Im just in this thread because i know the metaphysical ones always will break down into humoruous arguments. I respect everones opinionns on here and couldnt say who is right or wrong.
The right or wrong is what ever a person wants it to be. The OP i figure is a girl because her Avatar is pink, and the way she has cooked up a good cauldron of half truths, walked away and left it simmer.edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: if your gonna walk then walk, dont talk!
Ok. So you have an argument of a higher order here. You're not concerned with the subject matter. You're concerned with the integrity of the poster. Lol! You're like a sand trap on a golf course.
reply to post by djr33222
And if you can, get the audio version if you find reading a bit scary. Especially that book. Back in the day, folks used to read a lot more and were more educated. We can only hope to turn that around some.
And if you can, get the audio version if you find reading a bit scary. Especially that book. Back in the day, folks used to read a lot more and were more educated. We can only hope to turn that around some.
Ok. So you have an argument of a higher order here. You're not concerned with the subject matter. You're concerned with the integrity of the poster. Lol! You're like a sand trap on a golf course.
Yes well
Really i just dont give a damn about the self. Its a waste of time. The real answer is out there somewhere. If i find it ill send the human race a post card
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: good judgment comes from experience, and alot of that comes from getting caught in
sandtraps
Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Ok. So you have an argument of a higher order here. You're not concerned with the subject matter. You're concerned with the integrity of the poster. Lol! You're like a sand trap on a golf course.
Yes well
Really i just dont give a damn about the self. Its a waste of time. The real answer is out there somewhere. If i find it ill send the human race a post cardedit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: good judgment comes from experience, and alot of that comes from getting caught in sandtraps
Hmm. To make the choice to not give a damn about the self to me seems that you are more with the borg mentality. We are a team and that's it.
reply to post by TheMatrixusesYou
no you had it right the first time. Im a just sandtrap.
Its a self serving universe out there!
no you had it right the first time. Im a just sandtrap.
Its a self serving universe out there!
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)
Service to Self is better than Service to Others
I completely agree on many levels, and am an instigator of Personal Development, empowerment and we do better to help others by showing what is possible, so others can aspire themselves to lift themselves up to that bar as such.
However, on an deep level, the true level of the truth, not the illusion we live in, well there is no "self" or "other"
When that level of seeing things as they really are is experienced, there is no one to serve, no one serving in fact, and the realisation as you serve others they are you you are them, by serving someone else we are infact doing it to ourselves.
The problems arise when people try to do good without that integrated real view, get used or burned in the process, the ego smarts and rebels expecting something "back" in return, making them less likely to serve others first, in the future, infact and act of love and kindness can become anger or revenge or low self esteem, wiping out all the benefits of doing it in the first place.
So unless one is enlightened and Duality does not exist anymore, or at the least is extremely weakened it is very very very much in both our and others (illusiory though that is) interests to make sure you cup is overflowing first in whichever way you are serving, and you only share that which is actually overflowing, never give from the actual cup until duality has dissapeared, then it does not matter anyhow.
Love
Elf
I completely agree on many levels, and am an instigator of Personal Development, empowerment and we do better to help others by showing what is possible, so others can aspire themselves to lift themselves up to that bar as such.
However, on an deep level, the true level of the truth, not the illusion we live in, well there is no "self" or "other"
When that level of seeing things as they really are is experienced, there is no one to serve, no one serving in fact, and the realisation as you serve others they are you you are them, by serving someone else we are infact doing it to ourselves.
The problems arise when people try to do good without that integrated real view, get used or burned in the process, the ego smarts and rebels expecting something "back" in return, making them less likely to serve others first, in the future, infact and act of love and kindness can become anger or revenge or low self esteem, wiping out all the benefits of doing it in the first place.
So unless one is enlightened and Duality does not exist anymore, or at the least is extremely weakened it is very very very much in both our and others (illusiory though that is) interests to make sure you cup is overflowing first in whichever way you are serving, and you only share that which is actually overflowing, never give from the actual cup until duality has dissapeared, then it does not matter anyhow.
Love
Elf
edit on 28-8-2012 by MischeviousElf because: (no reason given)
reply to post by MischeviousElf
Exactly!
You have explained a difficult concept very well. At the highest order, or lack thereof, there is no 'self' or 'other' - no object to direct effort towards one way or the other. The dismantling leads to this realization.
The only thing I would slightly disagree with though is your idea that one can directly give form their own cup. In my opinion this is not possible the same way it isn't possible to impart wisdom onto a person. What you gain is yours through direct experience, only to be 'shared' in a very indirect and nuanced sort of way.
It would like be like saying you gained wisdom from reading a book or watching a program on tv and not going out to gain it by experience.
Unless you gain it by interaction with someone who already has it... but that is a mystery and goes with the nuanced and indirect I mentioned before..
Exactly!
You have explained a difficult concept very well. At the highest order, or lack thereof, there is no 'self' or 'other' - no object to direct effort towards one way or the other. The dismantling leads to this realization.
The only thing I would slightly disagree with though is your idea that one can directly give form their own cup. In my opinion this is not possible the same way it isn't possible to impart wisdom onto a person. What you gain is yours through direct experience, only to be 'shared' in a very indirect and nuanced sort of way.
It would like be like saying you gained wisdom from reading a book or watching a program on tv and not going out to gain it by experience.
Unless you gain it by interaction with someone who already has it... but that is a mystery and goes with the nuanced and indirect I mentioned before..
edit on 28-8-2012 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Service to Self is better than Service to Others
I completely agree on many levels, and am an instigator of Personal Development, empowerment and we do better to help others by showing what is possible, so others can aspire themselves to lift themselves up to that bar as such.
However, on an deep level, the true level of the truth, not the illusion we live in, well there is no "self" or "other"
When that level of seeing things as they really are is experienced, there is no one to serve, no one serving in fact, and the realisation as you serve others they are you you are them, by serving someone else we are infact doing it to ourselves.
The problems arise when people try to do good without that integrated real view, get used or burned in the process, the ego smarts and rebels expecting something "back" in return, making them less likely to serve others first, in the future, infact and act of love and kindness can become anger or revenge or low self esteem, wiping out all the benefits of doing it in the first place.
So unless one is enlightened and Duality does not exist anymore, or at the least is extremely weakened it is very very very much in both our and others (illusiory though that is) interests to make sure you cup is overflowing first in whichever way you are serving, and you only share that which is actually overflowing, never give from the actual cup until duality has dissapeared, then it does not matter anyhow.
Love
Elfedit on 28-8-2012 by MischeviousElf because: (no reason given)
wow i actually understood all that. I have self piece of mind now! The OPs cup i believe will be self rightoulsy fuller than a camels hump after she read that!
So this thread is now overflowing overthe brim of the cup of enlightnement, and the self opinions have all disappeared and we are all now one big happily in agreement, a Family...Family!...We can now form the Family self cult we and worship our overflowing duality,,or is that self oneness...wow im confused again!
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: return to dust!
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: Sandtraps are
people to.
edit on 28-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: A sandtrap a day keeps the self rightous at Bay!.
reply to post by AthlonSavage
What? The whole point of starting this thread was to see if anyone can make a good argument against my point of view, and not many have been made yet.... it seems to just be me defending why my perspective makes sense...
Karma is just an illusion... It can seem real if you believe in it... or another can "force" you into believing in it and ruin your perspective of reality.
Ah, more judgments based on assumptions....
I didn't make this thread to "kill time", I already explained my reason. In fact, I was sort of hoping someone would make a good argument for Service To Others...
It is not about the "Money" it is about the "Me". I don't slave for anything nor do need anything to make myself feel "better". I am absolutely perfect as is.
Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Are you on a crusade here? What point are you trying to make now?
What? The whole point of starting this thread was to see if anyone can make a good argument against my point of view, and not many have been made yet.... it seems to just be me defending why my perspective makes sense...
Originally posted by AthlonSavage
karma is a chain?
Karma is just an illusion... It can seem real if you believe in it... or another can "force" you into believing in it and ruin your perspective of reality.
Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Are you on a crusade here? What point are you trying to make now? That religion is false and karma is a chain?
I have to ask what actually is your profession? Im curious because im certain with you views your either a wealthy elitess, or a workshop teacher of new age principals and if not them things just a everyday person startng a thread on ATs as a form of amsuement to kill time?
Ah, more judgments based on assumptions....
I didn't make this thread to "kill time", I already explained my reason. In fact, I was sort of hoping someone would make a good argument for Service To Others...
It is not about the "Money" it is about the "Me". I don't slave for anything nor do need anything to make myself feel "better". I am absolutely perfect as is.
reply to post by arpgme
You aren't even a good Troll. You are going to have to get something much more controversial and exclude all common sense perception in it to succeed at Trolling.
You aren't a perfect troll
You aren't even a good Troll. You are going to have to get something much more controversial and exclude all common sense perception in it to succeed at Trolling.
You aren't a perfect troll
edit on 28-8-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by arpgme
Yes, I can't sense your "emotion" just by text. I can assume and make an educated guess, but I can tell you are being defensive by the seemly desperate responses to defend your belief system.
No, you can't. If anything, I'd say you sound defensive but I'm not going to attempt at making a logical fail and pretend I know how someone feels. An educated guess means nothing.
If you become Service To Self, you will love yourself and therefore will feel "jealous" less since you already think you are awesome; feel "greed" less since you already feel satisfied with who you are rather than "things".
I'm still not sure why you feel you can't have unconditional love for yourself and still give service to other people?? It is quite simple, really.
As I have said earlier, servicing others will reap you much more benefits than just service to yourself. You can't give yourself what you already have, but others can give you what they have. Perhaps, you need to actually go out and apply this logic in real-world examples. While you may think caring about only yourself makes sense, you may find different results when practiced. While I am perfectly content with myself and do not need the validation of others, I get no greater joy than helping other people. In the long run, helping others helps yourself. You can help yourself and not help others, or you can help yourself and help others. I prefer the latter.
It can be both, lets find a balance.
Let's spread our light from self to others. Let's express our self In a way that goes well and good with nature and all that it contains.
Let's rejoice in the fact there is a balance to be had from self to others.
Step outside of your self and help others..... This is freedom!
We are ALL in this together!
Let's spread our light from self to others. Let's express our self In a way that goes well and good with nature and all that it contains.
Let's rejoice in the fact there is a balance to be had from self to others.
Step outside of your self and help others..... This is freedom!
We are ALL in this together!
edit on 28-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by arpgme
This was a brave and interesting post to read. It made me better understand how people like you think and for that I thank you very much. Im reading your post and I notice quite a few differences compared to how I think myself, which is very interesting.
Your key points as I understand them:
1) People who do service to others work hard (is spinning on their heads) to make others happy. Why do that when they can make themself happy by doing service to self? Why do they do service to others for their approval?
Well, I get my best feelings of happiness when I can make a difference for others. I love making other people smile and laugh, and I love seeing them being happy and spreading a good mood. So far, I have not really seen happiness in a group where people are working for self, because it becomes a game about using other people to get yourself in a position where you get advantages and the others lose out on them.
The only happiness in that group is in the winner. And that winner is worried about losing his position to one of the other people in the group. This should be compared to a service to others group of people, where everybody is happy helping eachother because they feel good just being who they are. There is no need to become anything or rise to any position because nobody is competing from their egos. They dont need a position to feel good about who they are. This is a strength rather than a weekness. They already like themselves, which is the goal you are trying to reach by doing service to self.
I dont do service to others for their approval. This is your biggest misunderstanding I think. I do it because I feel good helping others. And If I notice someone not wanting me around, I move to someone else who needs my support. Its a strange perception that helping someone somehow puts you below them. It really doesnt.
2) If you are not willing to take, you dont have anything to give!
We all have different abilities to help others with. These are not taken from others - we are born with them. You can use your high IQ intellect to build bombs, or to build shelters. You can use your emotional abilities to make others feel good, or feel bad. So far I have not run out of empathy because it gets re-energized everytime you see how you make a difference for someone else.
3) When you focus on strength in yourself, you begin to love yourself instead of hate. You become happy because you are strong, and strong leads to self respect, and happiness.
I think the issue here is that you start the circle with hating yourself because you are not strong, so you must move from there to work on your self respect by being strong in order to be happy.
I build my self esteem from liking who I am. I dont need to change anything really because Im someone who contributes a lot to making other people feel better in this world, and by doing that, I also feel better myself. And if everybody did that, everybody would feel good about themselves and the world would be pretty awesome.
I think service to self creates a world where its pathetic to be weak, and you will not get love until you are strong enough to be respected by the other strong people. Its conditional love rather than unconditional love. See the difference?
Im not claiming to be a guru here... just trying to give you my point of view. And its really interesting, all of this. Thanks for your post!
edit on 28-8-2012 by PrimitiveWorld because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-8-2012 by PrimitiveWorld because: (no reason
given)
reply to post by arpgme
arpgme, what happens if 1 CREATOR CREATION feels ALL* other creations are invalid for some reason and feels the space they take up belong to it and its SERVICE TO SELF is to ELIMINATE ALL* energies in its WAY except for energies it OKs. Is this OK in the service to self argument?
So arpgme, if say an ANGEL of LIGHT found this DARK realm and recognized ONLY the LIGHTS that vibrate like itself and no other CREATOR CREATIONS AND IT WANTED TO MAKE A KINGDOM OF ONLY LIGHT/LUX
[color=cyan]
is it ok for the ANGEL of LIGHT AND ITS KIND to ASSIST ONLY the LIGHT ENERGIES IN SPIRITUAL ADVANCEMENT EVEN IF THAT MEANS IT WILL DESTROY THIS DARK REALM AND ALL OTHER NON LIGHT ENERGIES TO MAKE ITS LIGHT KINGDOM HERE AS WELL? (SERVICE TO IT SELF NO OTHER EXCEPT FOR ITS KIND) and destroys the other energies for say DARK ENERGY CONVERSION even if the other energies ARE positive and just as good but are not LIGHT like LUX? [/COLOR]
Please respond back arpgme as some may wish to really know how the brain activities/CONSCIOUS of some CREATOR creations think.
NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******
transmission pending-
arpgme, what happens if 1 CREATOR CREATION feels ALL* other creations are invalid for some reason and feels the space they take up belong to it and its SERVICE TO SELF is to ELIMINATE ALL* energies in its WAY except for energies it OKs. Is this OK in the service to self argument?
So arpgme, if say an ANGEL of LIGHT found this DARK realm and recognized ONLY the LIGHTS that vibrate like itself and no other CREATOR CREATIONS AND IT WANTED TO MAKE A KINGDOM OF ONLY LIGHT/LUX
[color=cyan]
is it ok for the ANGEL of LIGHT AND ITS KIND to ASSIST ONLY the LIGHT ENERGIES IN SPIRITUAL ADVANCEMENT EVEN IF THAT MEANS IT WILL DESTROY THIS DARK REALM AND ALL OTHER NON LIGHT ENERGIES TO MAKE ITS LIGHT KINGDOM HERE AS WELL? (SERVICE TO IT SELF NO OTHER EXCEPT FOR ITS KIND) and destroys the other energies for say DARK ENERGY CONVERSION even if the other energies ARE positive and just as good but are not LIGHT like LUX? [/COLOR]
Please respond back arpgme as some may wish to really know how the brain activities/CONSCIOUS of some CREATOR creations think.
NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******
transmission pending-
VENUS CONSCIOUS met/eval transmitted
edit on 8/28/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
This is the same thing like governments - killing and destroying in order to take over and form a kingdom. The highest service to self would be to love oneself and to understand you don't need to control because you are infinite and all is within you. Do not let the
Do not let the feeling of "lack" to overcome you and make you steal, kill, or have jealousy. Understand that you do not "lack" you are awesome as is and love self and then this "lack" feeling of need to take will go away.
The best method is to 'ease' thoughts into accept that all is well. This is a self service....
Also keeping an awareness that even though you may be an individual - at higher levels ALL is connected. But some are playing roles as evil and separate.
This is the same thing like governments - killing and destroying in order to take over and form a kingdom. The highest service to self would be to love oneself and to understand you don't need to control because you are infinite and all is within you. Do not let the
Do not let the feeling of "lack" to overcome you and make you steal, kill, or have jealousy. Understand that you do not "lack" you are awesome as is and love self and then this "lack" feeling of need to take will go away.
The best method is to 'ease' thoughts into accept that all is well. This is a self service....
Also keeping an awareness that even though you may be an individual - at higher levels ALL is connected. But some are playing roles as evil and separate.
edit on 28-8-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)
reply to post by arpgme
To me, service is repaying the debt that I owe to the people in my life. My parents, my friends, and in some respects my employers. For example, my friends and parents have made sacrifices for me. The best way to repay their loyalty is to provide them with the best service that I can. This action of service proves that I appreciate what they have done and continue to do for me far more than words ever could. In regards to employers the concept is the same. The difference is if the employer deserves my loyalty. If the employer treats me fairly I will do the best job that I am capable of. On the other hand if the employer treats me poorly I feel no obligation to treat them well.
Perhaps you and I see the concept of service in a different light. I see the concept in a spiritual light. From what you have posted I would guess that you see the concept in a materialistic light. Allow me to ask you a question:
Do you think you are improving yourself if you ignore the obligations that you owe to the people that have done right by you?
To me, service is repaying the debt that I owe to the people in my life. My parents, my friends, and in some respects my employers. For example, my friends and parents have made sacrifices for me. The best way to repay their loyalty is to provide them with the best service that I can. This action of service proves that I appreciate what they have done and continue to do for me far more than words ever could. In regards to employers the concept is the same. The difference is if the employer deserves my loyalty. If the employer treats me fairly I will do the best job that I am capable of. On the other hand if the employer treats me poorly I feel no obligation to treat them well.
Perhaps you and I see the concept of service in a different light. I see the concept in a spiritual light. From what you have posted I would guess that you see the concept in a materialistic light. Allow me to ask you a question:
Do you think you are improving yourself if you ignore the obligations that you owe to the people that have done right by you?