Service to Self is better than Service to Others (Please read before judging!)

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posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by sylvie
 


Very wise words.
edit on 27-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: guess this is another Ats thread successfully solved. None of us are selfish where just doing whats best for ourselves!




posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by sylvie
 


Very wise words.
edit on 27-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: guess this is another Ats thread successfully solved. None of us are selfish where just doing whats best for ourselves!


Glad you managed to grasp the essential meaning of the thread ! perhaps I note a touch of cynicism but as long as you managed to get something out of this. It would be pleasing to know. I wont hold it against your self if you didn't though.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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. I wont hold it against your self if you didn't though.
reply to post by ancientthunder
 


Yes i was trying to be cynical as possible lol. Still least i hung around for the debate the openner of thread drops us a huge curve ball for debate then got up and ran away!

edit on 27-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-8-2012 by AthlonSavage because: lol not exactly in the spirit of a D -Day landing!



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage



2- there is no distinction between self and other. "Ignorance" means denial of this fact. Meditate.
reply to [url= by IandEye[/url]
 


I liked point 1. But point 2 was just too esteroical for this thread!



lol- probably too esoteric for this site...
if you are really interested in this topic I suggest you find a copy of Santideva's Guide to the Way of the Boddhisatva Way of Life (or some such translation from the Sanskrit) explains in great detail what I foolishly tried to summarize in 2 points.
peace
edit on 27-8-2012 by IandEye because: wrong book



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by AthlonSavage



2- there is no distinction between self and other. "Ignorance" means denial of this fact. Meditate.
reply to [url= by IandEye[/url]
 


I liked point 1. But point 2 was just too esteroical for this thread!



lol- probably too esoteric for this site...
if you are really interested in this topic I suggest you find a copy of Santideva's Guide to the Way of the Boddhisatva Way of Life (or some such translation from the Sanskrit) explains in great detail what I foolishly tried to summarize in 2 points.
peace
edit on 27-8-2012 by IandEye because: wrong book


Please make a new thread on point 2 and i will look at it from there tommorow after i sleep.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 



Originally posted by arpgme
Service to others is slavery.


I think you need to study what slavery is.
If I serve someone else because it is what I desire, then it IS service to myself, while also serving others. Why does it have to be one or the other?



Service to others will keep you weak. It will keep you pretending for approval just to be a "service" to others.


It will "keep" me weak? I am not weak, so service to others actually makes me no stronger or weaker than I already am. When I serve others, it is NOT for approval, as many times, the people I'm "serving" have no idea who I am. If you NEED to serve others to feel approval, then there's a problem, but for a well-adjusted person to serve others, it's not about the approval from outside, it's about me doing the right thing.



Why should I do the DIS-service of serving people when I can BETTER serve them by teaching them to be strong and NOT depending on others?


Boy, that's some ego at work there.




You begin to feel less "lack" and therefore less greed. You are happy with YOURSELF without all the stuff...


You know... I am completely happy with myself and without all the "stuff". AND I am in service to other people as well. It really doesn't have to be one way or the other. We can do both! Which, for me, is the way to go.



I am not sure why people see service to SELF in such a negative light when there is so much truth and wisdom there.


I am not aware that people see service to self in a negative light. As long as there's a BALANCE (which is the point you seem to be missing) service to self (taking care of one's self) is a good thing. And so is service to others.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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I’m thinking your logic behind this thread is *you cannot help someone that will not help themselves* which is true, as many things come from within.

But… I know what the edict behind this post is; *do as thou wilt* ::Beware The Mystery Schools::

Dead on posters that mention Ayn Rand, because both The Fountainhead and especially Atlas Shrugged champion the self above the others, under the guise of individualism vs. the collective.

OP: Read Covey’s The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People – he does a great job explaining interdependence, which is what your shooting for but missing the mark.
edit on 27-8-2012 by ConspiracyBuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Service to self, or self preservation, is the good kind of greed. Without serving yourself, you will not be in a position to serve others if you choose to. If everyone thought this way there would be very few people that were in need of service from others, because they would take care of themselves and be much more independent and self reliant.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


I think that what you are saying is that we cannot truly serve another unless we ourselves are whole and complete. There are very few of us as individuals who are whole or complete.. which means that we all in the name of serving each other are really just serving the ego's illusion.

We are sooooo consumed with having to give to (or serve) other when we ourselves are not even full so when we give to (serve) another we have less as a result of it. When we give from a place that is whole and complete it is a joy to serve because we are serving from a much different perspective of the self or the individual because we are giving (or serving) from a cup that is overflowing (with love, peace, freedom, abundance, etc...). We are not any less as a result of what we give or how we serve. We are just sharing that which we have more than enough of...


All of this is about to change...



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by ConspiracyBuff
 


That's true. It's shocking how many businesspeople -- and many of our politicians -- subscribe to Ayn Rand's theories. It's the most inhumane philosophy I can imagine.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
When have you evever taught someone to be strong? What have you done in that space? Its easy to talk on here but where is your track record??


Ah. That was very clever of you - try to discredit the idea by attacking me personally (ad hominem fallacy)


Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Your post doesnt come across happy it comes across angry. Are you genuinely a happier person?


If my word don't "come across happy', that is YOUR judgment. It is YOUR mind filtering the text.

A person can type anything, you do not know how they feel in reality...

If I put a bunch of exclamation marks (!!!!!!) do you believe I am yelling in reality?




Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Your just playing with words. You talk the talk but do your walk the walk!


It doesn't matter if he "walks the walk" or not. That does not determine whether or not what he say is TRUE.

Is it a lie that cigarettes give cancer just because a smoker says it but still smokes? No, it is truth, whether they still smoke or not.



Originally posted by sylvie
That's true. It's shocking how many businesspeople -- and many of our politicians -- subscribe to Ayn Rand's theories. It's the most inhumane philosophy I can imagine.


Just to clarify, I do not believe in Ayn Rand, or politics. Life can work just fine without wars and money (but that is a whole 'nother subject).



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


I agree with you in a sense arpgme. I do think you made a slight mistake by using the word 'service' however. Doing things that come naturally, i.e. self-preservation, self-mastery, helping others, empathy etc., aren't services that are offered, but natural effects that extend to oneself and those he comes into contact with. Once it becomes a service, it becomes a job and a vain duty.

It seems that someone who helps others at the expense of himself is only persisting the problem. For instance, once someone takes someone's burden and puts it on his own shoulders, there are now two people burdened where before there was only one. Logically, this perpetuating of suffering seems counterintuitive to life, but the pain of living with one's own bad conscience is even greater, and one would rather suffer with others than suffer alone. So in the end, helping another in need becomes helping oneself gain a better conscience, thus a mutual betterment is uncovered.

I think this is natural and not a service. Once it becomes a service, it's done for church or ideology, it enters the realm of personal vanity.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Ayn Rand's political philosophies, those which champion laissez-fair capitalism, are a neo-cons wet dream. But she is right in a sense, that there are those that live off the work of others, ride the coat-tails of others and are downright lazy. She is right to say that if the creators and intellectuals of the world upped and left, there would be a monstrous collapse (atlas shrugged). The people that rely on the work of others to serve their own self-interests would be in trouble.

Her philosophies work disturbingly well in a society based on a monetary system, so despite the dangerousness of her ideas, she is showing how living in a monetary system results in men doing evil things.

Also, she wouldn't advocate anything a corporation does these days because they lessen the value of the individual. Rational self-interest doesn't create the dangers we see today. Irrational self-interest does.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


work is service to others, because your labour just doesn't benefit you.

if you work then you are in service of other people.

money is irrelevant.

you're confused as to what service is.

maybe you'll slip and fall, break your leg and meet someone like you.

then you'll be left there in pain and agony.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


I agree on this, but i also do believe that to be truly happy in this life means to have a perfect balance of both aspects.

Spiritualism as well as Materialism.
-Progressing spiritually as well as rewarding yourself along the way.
-Helping yourself as well as others in need.
-Having a job to provide for your family, as well as to splurge a bit on clothes or something you'd like, like something as simple as a CD that you'd like to buy.

To be able to employ yourself to doing things for others though, you have to first do what you deem necessary to make sure that you are comfortable with your own self and are able to fix your own problems.

You should at least be comfortable with where you stand before making others comfortable so that they do not stand on top of you.

..and please by all means reward yourself for a job well done, and buy yourself that CD.
Mike



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


I see what you're getting at, but I don't look at the material needs when it comes to giving to others. I believe we each have a bank of emotions. And in order to remain balanced we must give AND receive on an emotional level. If we just give and give and give we start to feel used and abused, especially when WE have a need and no one is there for us, or the other person giving to us makes us feel as though it's a real bother.

If everyone keeps making withdrawals on our emotional bank, with no one making any deposits, we can get real sick.
edit on 8/27/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Every person acts upon their own rational self-interest. What that interest is, however, is subjective to that person.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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narcissism is a necessary and good step along the path to the true self.

the secret is that one must go THROUGH narcissism, accept it and embrace it, to obtain the proper context of true selflessness.

the problem, then, is that due to the social stigma, most people give themselves a MANDATE of service to others, rather than actively choosing to perform the selfless act. because of this, they take on only the APPEARANCE of selflessness.


ironically, taking on such an appearance is the very definition of a narcissistic personality.

as with most things in life, we become that which we avoid. it is sad that our modern world is so chock-full of these self-loathing narcissists.... transparent to their very core!.... exhausting.


EMBRACE THE SELF!!!!



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


in my personal experience, we are ALWAYS "allotted " the requisite amount of emotional currency which we choose to expend.

you are drawing upon an account which will never expire.

many people use your reasoning to issue themselves a "license " to behave selfishly.... or to condemn the selfish nature of others in order to satisfy their own sefish desire.

no such licence is necessary, selfishness is a virtue. your anxiety is a fallacy.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


in my personal experience, we are ALWAYS "allotted " the requisite amount of emotional currency which we choose to expend.

you are drawing upon an account which will never expire.

many people use your reasoning to issue themselves a "license " to behave selfishly.... or to condemn the selfish nature of others in order to satisfy their own sefish desire.

no such licence is necessary, selfishness is a virtue. your anxiety is a fallacy.





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