Service to Self is better than Service to Others (Please read before judging!)

reply to post by RealSpoke


He shared!
He did not give all away though. He took care of himself.
And he saw unfairness when the other one got something better - is this not self interest?

reply to post by arpgme
hey you learn quick! but see how quick we are misunderstood.Never mind,just be kind in your own natural way. thanks.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Be with whatever is arising.
Any belief about having to do life a certain way is going to be a rule - which is not freedom. A plan to act a certain way will fail, it will make you feel like a failure.
Accept whatever arises.

'Be good' is where all the trouble starts.

i heartily agree, freedom is a slippery fish. There is no way to freedom and many ways to bondage.

What the OP is trying to say, I guess, is that whatever you do, you do it for yourself. Whatever you do, you do it in order to be consistent with your own values. If you spend your life helping others without thinking one second for yourself, you do it to be in accordance with your own values, you do it because you have a certain idea of living life and you want to be in accordance to that idea, to yourself, to your values. If you give your life to save the lives of 50 children in a burning school, you do it because this is your idea of "honor", because this is your idea of how things should happen, your idea of how a life should be lived, and you want to be consistent with that. At the end of the day, it is always you, your ideas, your values and being consistent with yourself, with your ideas and your values. If you make a gift to your own mother, you do it for yourself. I would say that others are merely the mirrors of yourself. In other words, when it comes to the why we do things, to the motivation, it is always selfish, but it should be separated from the "result" (whether others benefit from your actions or not). The motivation is always selfish, the result of that motivation is another story.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


If he were working in his self interest he would have kept all of the nuts, he did not have to share with the other monkey. He had to put the nuts through the hole and willingly give them up, this is against his self interest, if he were being "selfish" he would have kept them all.

reply to post by RealSpoke


He wanted a grape because the other one had one. That is self interest.
The two monkeys worked as a team - he knows the other monkey will not share next time if he doesn't share his nuts.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Why are you ignoring the first experiment of the video? Which was the whole point. Monkeys will willingly share with one another against their own self interest.

The whole point of the 2nd experiment was to show that the monkeys actually understood the concept of "fairness". As he expected equal pay for equal work...it was demonstrating the first experiment was not just "by chance".

Of course humans and monkeys will work for their self interest at times, it is in our nature, however it is not to be "selfish" ALL of the time. I don't get your point.

reply to post by arpgme


When we look after our house, our health & meet up with all our needs, we are more content in life & as a result we are able to better look after others later. Starts from self & expands out. If we are to service others needs, we must put on a barrier as to how much we can help so as not to over come us, it is nice to help others from time to time. BUT self comes first always, never put your self second place..

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Love thy neighbour as thyself.
If you do not know how to love yourself - how would you know how to love another?

In a plane crash you are advised to put your own oxygen mask on before helping others.

Did you hear about the monkey who pulled the fish from the water to save it's life?

Very, very true! A table can not stand without a strong foundation! The moon would not shine without absorbing (and consequently reflecting) light!



reply to post by RealSpoke



Look at how many assumptions you've made just to try to prove your point. None of it you can actually know for sure, and even trying to attack my character by assuming things about my mentality:

Originally posted by RealSpoke
it is very obvious you have never been in need as a lot of the time....PEOPLE CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
You're dependent on a million different things yourself.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
There are a ton of animals that depend on one another, like most primates! Humans are one of them.....as we depend on social contact or we go absolutely insane.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Here you go again, showing your psychopathy. Maybe you do, since you have a ego problem

Originally posted by RealSpoke
It's all an interdependent system upon one another, I know, you hate to hear that, but it's true.

It is sad when people have to make assumptions just to defend their belief systems.


Now, on to actually responding to some things you said...

Originally posted by RealSpoke
If a person does not have any insurance and has a medical ailment requiring a prescription, if they do not get it, they will die.

This is not "a lot of the time" - as you claimed , this is one of those unfortunate situations.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
you are dependent on corporations to ship FOOD to your area, and another corporation to put it in a store, for you to purchase.

You are absolutely right. That is dependence, and even that is bad. If something bad were to happen and all of the supermarkets run out of food (because of a drought or there is no more gas or any disaster), then people will soon starve.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
This goes against your entire OP, as you said people should only be fixated on their own self interest. Now you are just backtracking.

What part of helping people do things on their own so that they won't keep feeding off of you, is not self-interest?

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Incorrect, most humans have the ability to feel empathy.

I never claimed they didn't. I was responding to your claim that being self-centered is psychopathy.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
But if I tend to help someone, say I give them a ride to work...I'm doing that to make myself feel better? Are you kidding me. I probably did it so they wouldn't get fired......

Would you do the same thing for a complete stranger that you don't know? Even if you would, most wouldn't just pick a person off up the street to drive them to work. Of course, if you are helping a friend / co-worker / family member to work then it is self focused since you don't want the people YOU care about to be in trouble, and you want them to know you did a good thing for them.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Incorrect, without the worker there would be no corporation, without the consumer there would be no profit in order to create a job.

What was I 'incorrect' about, are you saying that I'm wrong that people don't work in corporations, and I NEVER denied that it was a interdependent system. Just another assumption you made to try to defend your belief system.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
No, this is what happens when someone has a gun to your head. If someone robbed you at gunpoint, pretty sure you're going to give up all the goods, 99% of people do.

Yeah, but I wouldn't let the same thing happen everyday. Eventually, I'll become smarter and learn to avoid the situation.

reply to post by RealSpoke
I SEE what you mean in a way, but I bet you feel better now you have shared that. At the end of the day, who knows maybe your selfless in other words you doing everything for others and not for yourself, But if you look at it clearly, it is still the self helping itself.(don't forget where you are posting, look up at the heading and rethink about where you are writing. Metaphysics and philosophy has many levels and the logical explanation will not be sufficient. It easy to get trapped in ones own selfish view, i know its happened to me loads of times.)

reply to post by arpgme


Yada, yada,yada. You my friend are too SELF absorbed. Try to help others when you can, dont put yourself first.
Your thinking with your lower ego fight or flight mechanism that helped us survive when we were a more primitive society.
That's the sort of thinking of a two year old who hasn't yet learnt to share.
Grow up brother and come and join us adults at the big table. Learn to work in a team situation. Many hands make light work, ring a bell? I bet you were an only child.

reply to post by arpgme

.... The moon would not shine without absorbing (and consequently reflecting) light!

Do you not know the difference between absorbing and reflecting? If the moon absorbed light, we wouldn't be able to see it.

I believe life is about giving and sharing, not 'absorbing'. To take and not give or share is called a parasite, and a parasite cannot survive on it's own.

reply to post by kudegras


Why is it that some of these so called "Service to Other" people are so judgmental and make many assumptions that they don't even know is true? Such as this:

Originally posted by kudegras
Yada, yada,yada. You my friend are too SELF absorbed

Originally posted by kudegras
Grow up brother

Originally posted by kudegras
I bet you were an only child.

So many assumptions that you make to defend your belief systems. Things that may not even be true, you assume about me.



reply to post by doobydoll

Originally posted by doobydoll
Do you not know the difference between absorbing and reflecting? If the moon absorbed light, we wouldn't be able to see it.

You are taking it way too literally. I'm talking about the fact that the moon does not make its own light, but it still shines, it takes the light from the sun.

Originally posted by doobydoll
I believe life is about giving and sharing, not 'absorbing'. To take and not give or share is called a parasite, and a parasite cannot survive on it's own.

Very interesting. Because a parasite does not give "To YOU" you assume that it does not give at all. Now that is really selfish (which is very ironic since you seem to be against STS). Parasites give by taking from you to create eggs to create more parasite life.

Like I already said before, it is impossible to take without giving back. If you do things for yourself and become happy, when you talk to others, people will sense your happiness and you will influence them.

i agree!. Still if i see on old grandma needs a hand across the street i will help, or a dog lost wandering wil take back to home. Self serving doesnt mean a person has to turn into a....I_)*#*+

DEEP SUBJECT

Originally posted by arpgme
Think about it. Service to others is slavery. Service to self is FREEDOM.

Okay .. let's think about it ...

Service to others is slavery? If you feel guilted or forced to help others than - Yes.
If you service others because you want to and it's self fulfilling - then no, it's not slavery.

Service to self is freedom.? If you do so of your own free will then is it freedom?
If you serve yourself because you are forced to or because you have to - then no, it's slavery.

We all MUST serve ourselves first. It's called survival. So we are all slaves to the human condition. And we are all forced to serve others ... we pay taxes to the state that in turn supposedly helps others. In primative cultures no man is an island and the tribes help tribal members. So we are all really slaves to the state (or tribe or whatever).

Therefore ... true freedom doesn't exist anywhere on this planet. We are all naturally slaves to the human condition and slaves to some form of government. And when we die and are free of being slaves to the physical world .. slaves to the human condition ... slaves to the government ... slaves to laws of physics ... then what? My guess is more 'slavery' in some form or other.

ill be honest the way i feel is i dont give a damn about other people. I care so little for them that it doesnt care me at all if i decide to help them. And if i manage to make someones day better, i dont feel guilty. Why would i feel guilty when i couldnt care less. If i help them its because i wanted to do it. I didnt need a reason or anyones permission i helped them because thats what i wanted to do. Lol beat that one !

reply to post by arpgme


If this were true you would have died as a young baby, as your parents especially your mother put service to her self over service to you.

Very sad thought process, I hope you can figure things out before it is too late for you.

He is a great youtube channel which may aid in your awakening:

Sanestal's Youtube channel - on the soul, spirituality, meditation and many other topics

Why should I do the DIS-service of serving people when I can BETTER serve them by teaching them to be strong and NOT depending on others?

reply to post by arpgme


When have you evever taught someone to be strong? What have you done in that space? Its easy to talk on here but where is your track record??

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by arpgme

 

I like helping other people and animals in need. You can take your Ayn Rand cult fantasies elsewhere. Selfishness and lack of empathy for others is what we call psychopathy. Corporations work in this very manner, usually screwing over their employees in the process, along with whole economies. Why pay them a 1$ more an hour?! If I keep it, it'll be in my self interest and my happiness will magically trickle down unto them. Righhhhht.

I totally agree, RealSpoke! Excellent comment

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Why are you ignoring the first experiment of the video? Which was the whole point. Monkeys will willingly share with one another against their own self interest.

The whole point of the 2nd experiment was to show that the monkeys actually understood the concept of "fairness". As he expected equal pay for equal work...it was demonstrating the first experiment was not just "by chance".

Of course humans and monkeys will work for their self interest at times, it is in our nature, however it is not to be "selfish" ALL of the time. I don't get your point.

edit on 27-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Sharing is not against self interest.