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Originally posted by Saucerwench
As --I recall-- it was only under about a couple months after Jerome Hunsaker passed away, the last surviving alleged member of that original supposed MJ12 group, then the mystery envelope with the microfilm, was slipped to Jaime Shandera.
Oh no doubt about it. And I didn't meant to imply that I discount that as being one of the objectives by believing it was not the primary purpose (and I stress that is just my personal opinion).
Originally posted by The GUT
I'm absolutely sure you are right about Intel mapping how the MJ12 docs would spread, but they were created, it seems to me, as powerful memes as well.
Even when one knows better, they're kind of hard to shake. And look what they've done to the less discerning.
What's your take on the contactees and intel involvement? Did it happen, and if so what impetus?
Originally posted by The GUT
The question is what do they really want us to believe? WHY on one hand would they try and hush it up and on the other hand perpetuate the belief?
There are many reasons why your average professional scientist shuns away from studying UFO evidence or publicly admitting having an interest in the UFO subject. The primary reason is the implied threat to one's carreer, either directly via officialdom retributions or indirectly through the carefully cultivated public perception that the UFO subject is scientifically unrespectable. The latter was achieved by the psy-ops of the US Intelligence Establishment i.e. the officially sanctioned "debunking" and deception programme, euphemistically called "re-education of the public".
The anti-UFO propaganda has been waged upon the general populous since the 1950s, as outlined e.g. in declassified report of the Robertson Panel (commissioned by the CIA in Jan-1953)..
The Robertson Panel, as it came to be known, was hampered by men of Page's mindset and thrown off by the highly selective presentation of UFO cases by the CIA, charged one of the attending Air Force officers. "We were double-crossed," commented a Blue Book member. "The CIA (didn't) want to prepare the public - they're trying to bury the subject. Those agents ran the whole show and the scientists followed their lead. They threw out the Utah [Newhouse] film - said the Navy analysts were incompetent. We had over a hundred of the strongest verified reports. The agents bypassed the best ones. The scientists saw just 15 cases and the CIA men tried to pick holes in them."
Originally posted by Quaesitor
Whoever crafted this operation, the documents and everything else that it involved — like manipulating/influencing the people receiving the information on a personal basis — were people with extensive knowledge and experience in the arts of deception, disinformation and espionage tradecraft. This kind of work is done by people who, in achieving their objectives, kill many birds with one stone.
And it wasn't Doty alone. In fact he was probably at the bottom of that pyramid. And it probably wasn't even the work of a single agency.
...one of the casualties, and perhaps the biggest casualty — besides poor Paul Bennewitz of course — in my opinion was Stan Friedman.
Whatever one thinks of Stan's conclusions, no one can deny his skills as a researcher, at uncovering people and documents and all sorts of information. And just look at the time and effort he has spent (perhaps wasted) with the MJ12 affair. I wonder what else he might have focused his attention on and what fruits that would have beared.
Originally posted by The GUT
When I look at Stanton in that light, I can be more understanding. I'ma still have some issues with him for failing to include high strangeness aspects in some of the cases he's reported though.
Thanks again, you bring a lot to the table at this smorgasbord of ufological confusion.
Originally posted by FireMoon
What I can say is this, Max Burns is 100% on the money when he talks about "TV appearances" and the manoeuvring that goes on behind the scenes and it is widely known that A will not appear "live" if B is on a certain show. One should also take an interest in reviews of shows, by those in the field, who are not featured in that particular show.
Originally posted by Eidolon23
We appear to be caught in a Strange Loop right here on this very thread.
1. We have anomolous skyborne phenomena.
2. Intel agencies seize a golden chance, and begin producing their own phenom/molding public perception of it.
This memo to the Director of CIA indicates that what would be the recommendation of the Robertson Panel was already determined a year before: flying saucers cause to threats to the national security: one psychological threat (risks of mass panic may be exploited by the "enemy"), and the other an air security threat (neglect of UFO alerts may cause neglect of "enemy" air attacks.)
It also shows that CIA estimated current efforts of UFO research insufficient as far as national security is concerned and that the problem must be escalated to higher levels.
Originally posted by Cosmic911
What I often think of now is what will CIA and the USAF use as a cover for top secret advanced aircraft? They knowingly and willfully used the UFO phenomena as a cover for advanced black op aircraft. What are they going to use now as a cover? Or, they might just figure the gig is up, we know they're working on high tech black op aircraft and say to hell with the cover. The big bad Soviets are dead so no need to play cat and mouse with them anymore, right?