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My only suggestion to a soution is that a grassroots movement for campaign reform and vote verification must begin. This would seem to be an issue that little folk of all political persuasions could agree on. The little guy/gal needs to be separated from the Republican and Democratic parties. Both these parties are controlled by monied interests.
Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by hawkiye
Why should you vote??
You should vote and vote your conscience even if you have to write in your candidate!
You should do this just in case the shooting starts, a righteous person always has the high ground in mental warfare!
You can truly say that you did try for peace!
Those who make peaceful.... forget it, nobody listens anyway.
Originally posted by totallackey
Furthermore, there is no reason to not vote...A vote for one person is a vote against another...You do not like either MSM candidate, then vote for any of the other choices...
The current crop of people we have in office have done nothing to warrant any sort of consideration when it comes to retaining office. Vote against all incumbents.
Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by hawkiye
We've voted the same way for hundreds of years and so who is to say any of the past presidents were legitimately voted in? Do you think people were more honest years ago and no voter fraud or miscounting of the votes occurred? You say that people were caught voting fraudulently on film. I'd like to see that film. It is not a crime to register to vote under a fictitious name, a dead person or a criminal. It is a crime to commit voter fraud but to do that you have to follow up and actually VOTE. BTW, I think it should be a crime not to vote.
Originally posted by BravoBull
reply to post by hawkiye
You must vote. Forget about the lesser of 2 evils philosophy. That will definitely get you more of the same. If you're a Ron Paul supporter, then vote Libertarian. If you leanings are to the left, vote green or anything else you like, Will there be fraud to negate your vote? Who knows maybe. But the more votes that are not to either Republican or Democrat, the harder it will be for TPTB to exercise their fraud.
IMO, they want voter apathy. They would prefer you give up entirely. They want their hypnotized kool-aid drinking minions to be the ones that vote and no one else. That way they don't have to conduct any fraud, It legitimizes their power. So DON'T give them what they want!! Don't make it any easier for them. Fight them any way you can and VOTE!!
Originally posted by hawkiye
Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by hawkiye
Why should you vote??
You should vote and vote your conscience even if you have to write in your candidate!
You should do this just in case the shooting starts, a righteous person always has the high ground in mental warfare!
You can truly say that you did try for peace!
Those who make peaceful.... forget it, nobody listens anyway.
Wow I have to admit I am surprised someone came up with a halfway reasonable point to continue voting. Not that I agree with it but I like to give credit where it is due. I think that continuing to vote in a fraudulent system gives it the illusion of legitimacy and helps perpetuate the system.
I am not opposed to voting per say but I am opposed to voting in a system that only has the illusion of your vote being counted rather then hard evidence that it does count.
For me to be willing to endorse a system number one the votes have to be 100% verifiable!
Number two the things that can be voted on must be very limited. The constitution and state constitutions were written to limit what could be voted on to put a large check on mob rules socialist hell we see today. Most things voted on today have no business even being up for a vote.
edit on 26-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by hawkiye
Originally posted by BravoBull
reply to post by hawkiye
You must vote. Forget about the lesser of 2 evils philosophy. That will definitely get you more of the same. If you're a Ron Paul supporter, then vote Libertarian. If you leanings are to the left, vote green or anything else you like, Will there be fraud to negate your vote? Who knows maybe. But the more votes that are not to either Republican or Democrat, the harder it will be for TPTB to exercise their fraud.
IMO, they want voter apathy. They would prefer you give up entirely. They want their hypnotized kool-aid drinking minions to be the ones that vote and no one else. That way they don't have to conduct any fraud, It legitimizes their power. So DON'T give them what they want!! Don't make it any easier for them. Fight them any way you can and VOTE!!
Wow you go right into the spiel and even admit you have no idea if there is fraud or not. Sorry my friend I guess I am odd man out since I like to make sure there is no fraud before I participate in any thing as important as voting. I am simply amazed at peoples willingness to just ignore the obvious like it doesn't matter and continue to blindly participate like some mindless drone hoping for the best but never wanting to verify if they are wasting their time or not...
My point is that by not voting and leaving it to the sheeple, then fraud doesn't even have to be perpetrated. Because the sheeple believe in the 2 party system. then TPTB will always get what they want. Why make it easy for them?
Originally posted by BennyTheBlade
reply to post by newcovenant
a crime not to vote? Please explain the logic in that. It should be a crime to force someone to do something they dont wish to do or be involved in something they dont beleive in. Sound a bit like slavery when you say if you dont do what we tell you to do you go to jail.
Originally posted by doobydoll
reply to post by BravoBull
My point is that by not voting and leaving it to the sheeple, then fraud doesn't even have to be perpetrated. Because the sheeple believe in the 2 party system. then TPTB will always get what they want. Why make it easy for them?
This fraud has been going on for so long that they are already expert at it, it is already easy for them. They don't care who you vote for, because they'll make sure their man will win anyway. It is the one's who do vote who are allowing them to perpetuate this fraud by participating in it.
It would really scupper their fraud if absolutely no-one turned out to vote. It would be difficult for them to mis-count zero votes.
Originally posted by BennyTheBlade
reply to post by newcovenant
a crime not to vote? Please explain the logic in that. It should be a crime to force someone to do something they dont wish to do or be involved in something they dont beleive in. Sound a bit like slavery when you say if you dont do what we tell you to do you go to jail.
Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
It is true however that electronic voting has exacerbated the problem ten-fold, if not more, as it is much easier to do, and carries much less risk. I wish the majority would take up a campaign calling for major election reforms, and until those demands are met, no one voted. But even if that were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised to see the numbers come up in the usual fashion, the majority of votes simply fabricated of course.
It has been brought to light, by persons affiliated with designing the machines, that they could be rigged. ANY voting methods that are available for use today in the USA are fixable. We need a computer based system with open-source code, with built-in counter-measures, along with personal accountability via surveillance of anyone involved in tabulating the count, etc...There needs to be a system that is either impossible to rig, or a system that would need the complacency of many, many people to succeed in being rigged. That would be better than what we have now, seeing as at least someone may blow the whistle.