The 800 Pound Gorilla Everyone Ignores

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posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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I'll just get right to the point. Can someone please tell me why I should vote in elections that cant be verified?

We've heard all the cliches "if you don't vote you don't have a right to complain."

"if we can just get enough people to vote for so and so we can change history."

Why do so many people ignore the obvious here? The reality is 99.9 percent of people have no idea if the votes are counted fairly and just have blind faith they are are largely fair... Think about that! It literally is insane to think that we are electing are so called reps on blind faith that the votes are being counted fairly?

Even in small towns very few of them have an open count that can be publicly verified and even then still all the numbers are sent electronically to who knows where and could easily be manipulated? I am sure there are lots of places where the initial count is done fair etc. but the final numbers are a different story.

There have been numerous incidents where voter fraud has been caught red handed and nothing is down about it. Black box and other watchdogs have literally filmed voter fraud and no one cares. Gee do we really think an unverifiable system would not invite the crooks rampant in the political system to take advantage of it? Are we really that stupid to think over all there is not that much fraud?

Especially when there is a simple way to verify the vote. This is perhaps the biggest conspiracy ever and we just pretty much ignore it and everyone is running around arguing about who is the best candidate. it is the cart before the horse wouldn't you agree?

In my small conservative state where lots of folks and reps claim to be constitutionalists etc. we could not get a law passed to simply make the vote count verifiable... Oh that would take too long was the cry.... OK so lets just continue with a system that is not verifiable and hope for the best... Sigh! That is just insanity!

I marvel at all the back and forth on here and else where about the candidates when no one even knows if the vote count is honest.... We are living in the Twilight Zone it seems... I suspect this thread will not get much activity and die off as people do not like admit they are doing something this stupid and obvious even if it is the 800 pound gorilla staring them in the face.

And then of course we have those who claim if we do not endorse an unverifiable system by participating in it we don't have a right to complain. Are you mad? WE have every right to complain when our fellow human beings think they can vote theft plunder and even murder onus and our families through an unverifiable system much less through a verifiable system...

edit on 26-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



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posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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Don't forget - even if your vote "counts", it could still be undone by the electoral college. You know, a bunch of guys we've never met and never voted for (ha!) that decides for us how we voted....



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


I agree with you! I mean if you look at our two choices, it seems the globalist, bankers win either way, while we the people bite the dust for another four years. If slavery EVER ended, it sure is making a comeback and color isn't an issue with these criminals running this country!



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Who even cares if the vote is verified. The people in place are predetermined beforehand anyway. If it was meant to be fair, it wouldn't cost millions to run for office. It would be a nomination and a vote. Simple.

Thats why I vote Dolph Lundgren.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Why should you vote??
You should vote and vote your conscience even if you have to write in your candidate!
You should do this just in case the shooting starts, a righteous person always has the high ground in mental warfare!
You can truly say that you did try for peace!

Those who make peaceful.... forget it, nobody listens anyway.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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This is exactly why I am refusing to vote this year. I don't trust those Diebold machines at all. Numbers can be changed with a simple stroke of the keys. Paper ballots can be recounted by impartial third parties. No wonder they were so eager to go paperless when it came to voting.

I want no part of this sham. And I do retain my right to complain, because this is still America. I used to vote third party, but the paperless system has made me into a non-voter.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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I take your point well and given that I don't live in a place that has (as of yet) dropped paper ballots, I'm not sure how I'll feel when they do. Right now, we're still on 'fill in the arrow with a pen' next to the name and then it gets fed by the voter into a locked ballot box with a computer scanner on the front of it for quick count to the state. We still had the paper as of Primaries this year......

Putting aside national level stuff entirely for a moment to avoid a debate about the Electoral College and how that system is seen as unfair by some, there is a VERY good reason to still vote. Two words.

Down Ticket.

I really don't like either guy.. Obama I hate..Romney I don't trust or like. I'm not going so I can vote for the President in November. It's just an area of the ballot I'll have to put something in. I'm going for the ballot initiatives, the city elected offices, School board positions and ....after Akin the Embecile opened his ignorant big mouth, I'm absolutely going to vote AGAINST HIM. Still though... All those local races aren't rigged in the way the Nationals very well may be.......and the President doesn't set my local tax rates and laws I'm having to follow or be ticketed and fined for.
edit on 26-8-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: Context correction about going to polls


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posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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i actually came in here to see a huge monkey, i am very dissapointed



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by hawkiye
 


Why should you vote??
You should vote and vote your conscience even if you have to write in your candidate!
You should do this just in case the shooting starts, a righteous person always has the high ground in mental warfare!
You can truly say that you did try for peace!

Those who make peaceful.... forget it, nobody listens anyway.


Wow I have to admit I am surprised someone came up with a halfway reasonable point to continue voting. Not that I agree with it but I like to give credit where it is due. I think that continuing to vote in a fraudulent system gives it the illusion of legitimacy and helps perpetuate the system.

I am not opposed to voting per say but I am opposed to voting in a system that only has the illusion of your vote being counted rather then hard evidence that it does count.

For me to be willing to endorse a system number one the votes have to be 100% verifiable!
Number two the things that can be voted on must be very limited. The constitution and state constitutions were written to limit what could be voted on to put a large check on mob rules socialist hell we see today. Most things voted on today have no business even being up for a vote.



edit on 26-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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I have worked as member of my county election board for over 20 years. We have always done our best as a board to make sure the process is legitimate and the final tally has always been verified at the poll prior to the results being forwarded to the county election commission. I cannot speak for all boards, but I know that no process is not without flaws.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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Well when you see the polls, the vote and the exit polling all show pretty much the same thing then you have a pretty good idea that voter fraud is few and far between. I believe the number of proven cases over that last 20 years has proven almost none. However, if you are one of those people that think everyone is in on it then you have no way to prove your vote counted. Of course most likley you do not leave your tinfoil wrapped basement to vote anyway.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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The way I see it there are two possible outcomes.

1. Your vote count.

In which case you not voting has caused you to give up one of your rights, and you've not fulfilled your societal obligation as a citizen in this Republic.

And if you did, well good job.

2. Your vote doesn't matter.

Not voting does nothing.

And if you voted, you wasted a small part of your day, and in many cases got off work.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Furthermore, there is no reason to not vote...A vote for one person is a vote against another...You do not like either MSM candidate, then vote for any of the other choices...

The current crop of people we have in office have done nothing to warrant any sort of consideration when it comes to retaining office. Vote against all incumbents.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I take your point well and given that I don't live in a place that has (as of yet) dropped paper ballots, I'm not sure how I'll feel when they do. Right now, we're still on 'fill in the arrow with a pen' next to the name and then it gets fed by the voter into a locked ballot box with a computer scanner on the front of it for quick count to the state. We still had the paper as of Primaries this year......

Putting aside national level stuff entirely for a moment to avoid a debate about the Electoral College and how that system is seen as unfair by some, there is a VERY good reason to still vote. Two words.

Down Ticket.

I really don't like either guy.. Obama I hate..Romney I don't trust or like. I'm not going so I can vote for the President in November. It's just an area of the ballot I'll have to put something in. I'm going for the ballot initiatives, the city elected offices, School board positions and ....after Akin the Embecile opened his ignorant big mouth, I'm absolutely going to vote AGAINST HIM. Still though... All those local races aren't rigged in the way the Nationals very well may be.......and the President doesn't set my local tax rates and laws I'm having to follow or be ticketed and fined for.
edit on 26-8-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: Context correction about going to polls


On a local level votes are more likely to be counted fairly. Still you mention paper ballots but you still have no way to verify if the actual count you were told is correct. And then the count is sent to the state how do you know the number given to the state was not changed? Do you see my point? You really do not know if the vote is counted fairly.

A simple way to verify it is to make all the counts by hand and public so people who wish can view the count and done out loud etc. Then to post the final numbers publicly where they were counted so they are visible. it gets sent to the state and and is posted public-ally at the capital and on a website so they be verified by anyone that was at the count to make sure they match and so on. it is that simple hand count take longer but maybe a few days so what. it is worth it to make sure. But few even care it seems.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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Its better to vote, and come back and fight your vote being manipulated. Than it is to not vote, and hope someone takes you seriously when you try and tell them voting doesnt count.

Vote with the hopes it matters, and go from there. If you feel your vote is not counted, sue your government, start a petition, talk to your friends, gather minds to combat the issue.. Not participating and then complaining never seems to be a valid way in my mind to handle almost any issue.

This forum is full of a lot of problems, but everyone is waiting for someone to come and solve it.. We need to be taking these ideas and spreading them. We need to be our own MSM. When you run a business, they tell you nothing is more powerful then word of mouth. I believe talking to people about these issues would incite a desire for immediate change



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 





I agree with you! I mean if you look at our two choices, it seems the globalist, bankers win either way,


Only because people stupidly continue to play the same game and vote for "the lesser of two evils" rather than refusing to play the game anymore. Oh no, if I don't vote for the Democrat I'll have to vote for the Republican. Nope, not so.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


No one likes to have their sincerity questioned. Even with the paper ballots, all we did was to make sure the number of ballots matched the total number of people who came in to sign the ballot book. If there was 200 signatures in the ballot book, then we needed to have 200 ballots in the ballot box. We did not care about mismarked ballots or dimpled chad or unfinished ballots. The counts had to match. That was all.

In the general election, a person does not need to vote for every candidate. In other words, I could go vote and make a selection for the US Senate seat and US Congressional seat, but choose to leave the selection for US President BLANK. It does not (nor should it) nullify my other choices.

This is why the dimpled chad argument in 2000 was such a colossal fraud. There was no legal basis for the case to begin with. People are IGNORANT of the election process...Those who are actually need to stay the # out of it.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 

On your points here about the counting, I won't even break it down....because I agree with you across the board for that. There should be better and more transparent ways for this process to work and I don't see the problem except that transparency is not the priority among those setting the rules.

To consider all aspects though, the poll watchers and observers are members of the general public in as many cases as not and you can volunteer to be one yourself if you are so inclined. If you think your personal area has fraud occurring, be there to see that it doesn't.

You're right though, in saying we have no idea what happens in the process after the counts leave our local areas and that's why I share the cynicism of many regarding national counts and how accurate that has ever been. In some places, I think more dead people voted for Kennedy than living ones in terms of it being a long running issue.

State level is likewise out of my personal knowledge or control, as it is for everyone. I rely and have some faith in the observers and the idea that plenty of them volunteered to be observers because they feel much the same as you do.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by MrSpad
 



Well when you see the polls, the vote and the exit polling all show pretty much the same thing then you have a pretty good idea that voter fraud is few and far between. I believe the number of proven cases over that last 20 years has proven almost none. However, if you are one of those people that think everyone is in on it then you have no way to prove your vote counted. Of course most likley you do not leave your tinfoil wrapped basement to vote anyway.


Wow so you believe with blind faith that exit polling by media is also fair... You also believe the number of cases proven is almost none, really care to provide some evidence? It appears you believe a lot of things on blind faith instead of real evidence.

It doesn't matter what I believe there is a simple way to make elections verifiable and I cannot think of any reason why we shouldn't can you?

reply to post by benrl
 



The way I see it there are two possible outcomes. 

1. Your vote count. 

In which case you not voting has caused you to give up one of your rights, and you've not fulfilled your societal obligation as a citizen in this Republic. 

And if you did, well good job. 

2. Your vote doesn't matter. 

Not voting does nothing. 



How am I giving up my rights by not participating in a fraudulent system? My Rights have been nullified by their fraud continuing to endorse the fraud does NOT preserve my rights. It is not my societal obligation to support fraud it is our obligation to expose it and do away with it!

We have not had a Republic for over 100 years it has been bastardized into a socialist democracy allowing our neighbors to dictate to us through mob rules and fraudulent voting.

Not voting does a lot it removes the illusion the your vote counts and helps expose the fraud. It just amazes me how people want to continue with something they know is a fraud and think it will somehow fix itself if they just keep supporting it.

How about we fix it by making it verifiable?

reply to post by totallackey
 



Furthermore, there is no reason to not vote...A vote for one person is a vote against another...You do not like either MSM candidate, then vote for any of the other choices... 


I just gave several reasons above not to vote. You have not given any reason why I should vote in an unverifiable election.

reply to post by SamLuv
 



Its better to vote, and come back and fight your vote being manipulated. Than it is to not vote, and hope someone takes you seriously when you try and tell them voting doesnt count. 

Vote with the hopes it matters, and go from there. If you feel your vote is not counted, sue your government, start a petition, talk to your friends, gather minds to combat the issue.. Not participating and then complaining never seems to be a valid way in my mind to handle almost any issue. 

This forum is full of a lot of problems, but everyone is waiting for someone to come and solve it.. We need to be taking these ideas and spreading them. We need to be our own MSM. When you run a business, they tell you nothing is more powerful then word of mouth. I believe talking to people about these issues would incite a desire for immediate change


Wow ever feel like your talking to a wall...? How about instead of participating in fraud giving the illusion of legitimacy we fight to pass a law as I have outlined in previous posts to simply make the vote verifiable? What a novel idea...

Why would you assume I am like you and think by continuing to participate in fraud things will right themselves when I offered a solution you ignored and an obvious one at that... If the people insisted the vote be verifiable and there was a great outcry it would get done. But no we just keep getting the same sheeple programming repeated back to us that we must just keep voting and hope for the best and do nothing about the fact that it is unverifiable and a simple solution could remedy the problem... Sigh!








edit on 26-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)





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