Can Expansion Theory Really Explain Observed Universe? , page 6

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reply posted on 29-8-2012 @ 07:41 PM by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by CLPrime
This has a good explanation of what happens during metric expansion: Universal Misconceptions #1: The expansion of time.

That's a pretty good explanation.

If anybody is brave and wants some related imagery, check out these Space-Time Diagrams related to the expansion of the universe. Physicists and their students use these to help them understand the relationships between time and space. The "light cone" is a key concept these portray and the red line here shows our past light cone:

Even these diagrams give a distorted view (because of the curvature caused by gravity) the same way looking at a flat map of the Earth on a Mercator projection distorts the view of the curved (somewhat spherical) Earth, but the light cones help us understand this distortion. Eventually he shows how to replace the space distortion by creating time distortion, reinforcing their interchangeability as explained in CLPrime's link, which is pretty interesting. When he does that the light cone actually looks like a cone.

A more simple explanation of space time diagrams is given here so maybe read this first before the link above: www.astro.ucla.edu...

reply posted on 30-8-2012 @ 08:22 AM by swan001

reply to post by CLPrime

Ok, I see.

There is also this fact I realized: You can temper with 2 cartesian coordinates (which are 2 out of 3 dimensions of space) without affecting the third coordinate, Which implies that you can temper with all 3 coordinates (space) without affecting the fourth (time).

Well, I am glad you helped me to get to the core of it. I think you did wonderful! I insist, you should write a book.

reply posted on 30-8-2012 @ 10:16 AM by CLPrime

reply to post by swan001

I don't have time to write a book on Physics...I'm too busy reading, studying, writing, and speaking on "other" topics

reply posted on 30-8-2012 @ 10:59 AM by DaveNorris

Look up 'bubble theory', maybe the 'new' space thats causing our universe to 'inflate' is coming from another universe that is 'deflating' (to use your balloon analogy)

reply posted on 30-8-2012 @ 01:51 PM by BogieSmiles

Originally posted by DaveNorris
Look up 'bubble theory', maybe the 'new' space thats causing our universe to 'inflate' is coming from another universe that is 'deflating' (to use your balloon analogy)

arxiv.org...

That is a link to a paper that addresses bubble theory and eternal inflation theory at the same time. Check out the footnotes for links to many related papers, books and articles. Laura Mersini-Houghton has also done work on the "void" in the WMAP data and on dark flow. She addresses the false vacuums of bubbles and the true vacuum of eternal inflation from an interesting perspective.

reply posted on 30-8-2012 @ 04:05 PM by swan001

Originally posted by BogieSmiles

Originally posted by DaveNorris
Look up 'bubble theory', maybe the 'new' space thats causing our universe to 'inflate' is coming from another universe that is 'deflating' (to use your balloon analogy)
arxiv.org...

That is a link to a paper that addresses bubble theory and eternal inflation theory at the same time. Check out the footnotes for links to many related papers, books and articles. Laura Mersini-Houghton has also done work on the "void" in the WMAP data and on dark flow. She addresses the false vacuums of bubbles and the true vacuum of eternal inflation from an interesting perspective.

Wasn't Leonard Susskind a great fan of these, because he though those bubbles could have a link with multiverses? In fact, he though those bubbles were regions of other universes. I don't think I fully agree with this multiverses-are-in-our-universe's-bubbles theory. A bit far fetched, isn't it?

edit on 30-8-2012 by swan001 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 30-8-2012 @ 05:48 PM by BogieSmiles

Originally posted by swan001

Originally posted by BogieSmiles

Originally posted by DaveNorris
Look up 'bubble theory', maybe the 'new' space thats causing our universe to 'inflate' is coming from another universe that is 'deflating' (to use your balloon analogy)
arxiv.org...

That is a link to a paper that addresses bubble theory and eternal inflation theory at the same time. Check out the footnotes for links to many related papers, books and articles. Laura Mersini-Houghton has also done work on the "void" in the WMAP data and on dark flow. She addresses the false vacuums of bubbles and the true vacuum of eternal inflation from an interesting perspective.

Wasn't Leonard Susskind a great fan of these, because he though those bubbles could have a link with multiverses? In fact, he though those bubbles were regions of other universes. I don't think I fully agree with this multiverses-are-in-our-universe's-bubbles theory. A bit far fetched, isn't it?
edit on 30-8-2012 by swan001 because: (no reason given)

Yes, the father of String Theory, the great bubbles and the false vacuums, and universes nucleating from the surfaces of initial conditions, at least form my layman recall.

Yes, a bit far fetched, but no more far fetched than my delusions though, I guess. I do think that he failed to address the infinite past, and the point of the paper I linked to addresses that, saying that eternal inflation might not allow an infinite past. That means that the bubbles each have their initial conditions in the initial real vacuum, but the first bubble had to have no initial conditions and requires the singularity. I'm sure I murdered that explanation, but I have the deluded layman defence to fall back on, lol.

edit on 30-8-2012 by BogieSmiles because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 05:21 AM by ordep000

of couse there is something wrong..and that is the whole bbang theory............its totally wrong and leads scientists to follow wrong measurements and perception, as long as they follow these laws imposed by christianism and mostly the vatican core..............who gave the first kick on bbang theory..............??? it was lemaitre.........and who was he???

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 05:55 AM by Arbitrageur

reply to post by ordep000

Nobody since lemaitre has questioned cosmology or collected their own data and come to their own conclusions?

Cool story bro. Not much to do with reality, but cool story.

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 02:22 PM by iamwt123

its not expansion theory... concepts of the universe are naturally derived off the rules and laws of smaller things. it is timezone that you are looking for. there is a universal timezone that works much slower than our timezone (obviously), you are looking at the universe at a certain universal time. it spans from so and so years since actual existence and the more time passes, the more light is shed on more areas in the universe. in actuality, i'm guessing the universe is atleast 2x older than what we expect it to be and we are just unraveling more pieces of the universe as time goes on. basically, the farther time passes, the farther back in time via universal scope. this universe is an interesting one... it applies an eternal paradox so that organisms who are stuck on a planet will not understand... we are like ants unable to see the bigger picture. we won't really understand or perceive it until later on in a specie's stage of evolution. i believe there is more than one universe. i can't figure out what "god" is trying to do with this though. A progression of time is also a reversal of time is a very intriguing concept presented by the universe. We are playing a game with god, therefore, shall we play to our hearts content?

i dont know what to think... i'm scared of this curiosity... i'm scared that i'm able to think millions of years ahead... what am i...? i'm so scared of my ability to think...

edit on 7-9-2012 by iamwt123 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 04:45 PM by iamwt123

I feel like killing myself. someone please convince me that reality is real... My thoughts are of universal depth... I know what my relationship to "God" is... If correct, then I will never be happy because it is part of my existence... I am losing my mind; my brain hurts... God is toying with me... I am indifferent towards life. I am indifferent towards death. Give me life and I will partake. Give me death and I will rejoice. Give me nothing and I will wander until I become everything. What am I?

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 04:52 PM by ImaFungi

Originally posted by iamwt123
I feel like killing myself. someone please convince me that reality is real... My thoughts are of universal depth... I know what my relationship to "God" is... If correct, then I will never be happy because it is part of my existence... I am losing my mind; my brain hurts... God is toying with me... I am indifferent towards life. I am indifferent towards death. Give me life and I will partake. Give me death and I will rejoice. Give me nothing and I will wander until I become everything. What am I?

dude chill out!!

how old are you,.., you dont have to be exact,,, but give a range,.,,. im guessing,, from 18 - 23

do you have a job?

do you have a family?

have you ever had a nice experience in your life?

is there anything you enjoy about reality?

do you have any hobbies?

do you enjoy being in nature? laying in the sun? walking in the woods?

do you have any aspirations?

do you admire any great humans of history and of today? who accomplish great a miraculous things?

do you understand since the first humans there has been a non stop chain of life connecting you to them, meaning that the only reason you exist is because your genetic chain and family tree succeeded in life,, triumphed the odds, and struggles of nature.,,. to find purpose, reason, and joy to live like on this earth,, and love it?

i really hope you arent serious with you claims.,.,,. I hope you think it through.. gain some strength,,.,. if your suicidal every day will seem dark and dull,,. but your only doing that to yourself,.,.,. others cant see the bright side for you.,,.

YouTube Link

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 04:53 PM by ImaFungi

reply to post by iamwt123

YouTube Link

monty python,, the only self help gurus ive bothered listening to....

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 05:39 PM by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Like any analogy it has limitations, however note that the raisins don't get larger as the yeast in the bread causes the the space between the raisins to expand.

Erm, you meant "roaches"?

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 09:33 PM by iamwt123

i have a concept of the universe and a blueprint for existence in my head. i intuitively know what universal thought and humanistic thought is and can differentiate between the two. i fear the ability of thought. thought is what drives people insane. the darkness of the universe is not something to be trifled with.

reply posted on 7-9-2012 @ 10:19 PM by ImaFungi

Originally posted by iamwt123
i have a concept of the universe and a blueprint for existence in my head. i intuitively know what universal thought and humanistic thought is and can differentiate between the two. i fear the ability of thought. thought is what drives people insane. the darkness of the universe is not something to be trifled with.

what is the darkness of the universe?

what is your concept of the universe? you are nothing but the universe,..,.

how would you operate without thought? can you think of a better design for the driver of the physical body then you being able to control it and comprehend your surroundings through, that which is known as thought?

you fear the ability of thought,,, you would be able to type these words or understand what insane means without thought,.,.

reply posted on 1-5-2013 @ 08:13 AM by swan001

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
A more simple explanation of space time diagrams is given here so maybe read this first before the link above: www.astro.ucla.edu...

Hm, I saw that in Stephen Hawkin's book A Brief History of Time. What I mean is, does inflation inflates all 4 dimensions? According to relativity, the 4 dimensions can basically be viewed as a 2D brane.

A compressed tetrahedron. Which seems to imply, if space inflates, so will time?

My good friend CLPrime just pointed out that these can actually inflate at different rates:

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by swan001

That's right. Either time is stretching or space is stretching, depending on how you want to look at it...but not both. It's a subtlety that even I wasn't aware of until yesterday.

edit on 1-5-2013 by swan001 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-5-2013 @ 06:19 PM by swan001

reply to post by Arbitrageur

I forgot to add that, if space can stretch independently of time, that would open the door to paradoxes like Zeno's. That's one of the reasons I'm concerned.

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