Credible UFO witnesses not sufficient proof

Excatly deckard its my opinion and since God is an unprovable concept thats is all that is required for proof.
However Aliens are not unprovable.
So where is the proof.

Since you are not bright enough to understand what I am saying let me make it easier for you.
I can quite easily show that the existance of lens can be proven.
However can you show how God's existance can be proven?

How could any man woman or child prove the existance of God?

mwm1331
Since you are not bright enough to understand what I am saying let me make it easier for you.

Well, I'm certainly bright enough not to resort to personal attacks when the argument isn't going my way.

OK, let's not let this lovely conversation deteriorate.

mwm1331
Lets say hypothetically a being or entity came to earth which had the Abillity to alter the structure of reality, would that prove it is God?

What would you do, mwm1331, if an entity did arrive and claimed to be God?

[edit on 18/10/2004 by Deckard_BR26354]

I wouldn't know untill it happens but that besides the point.
My point is that as the existance of EBE's can be proven then proof is required for belief.
So again I ask why would you believe in EBE's (as opposed to beleving in the possibility of EBE's) without proof and how is that openminded?

Originally posted by mwm1331
I wouldn't know untill it happens but that besides the point.
My point is that as the existance of EBE's can be proven then proof is required for belief.
So again I ask why would you believe in EBE's (as opposed to beleving in the possibility of EBE's) without proof and how is that openminded?

Oh, I see, so you expect me to answer your hypothetical questions but when I ask the same, they're 'besides the point' and not relevant 'until they happen'. Closed-mind.

I love it when I get guys like you running scared deckard.
Changing the subject in hopes of avoiding the meat of the discussion.
Less you forget this thread wasn't about religon, it is about whether or not "credible" UFO witnesses are sufficient proof of the visittion of earth by EBE. I dont blame you for avoiding it since you are so closeminded.
But the fact remains that the exisatnce of aliens is a provable concept. It can be proven and yet there is no proof. So why do you believe?
Are you not close minded to the idea that they may not be visiting?
By not demanding proof of this extraordianary claim are you not closing your mind to one of the potential possbilities?
I by demadning proof of EBE visitation am leaving my mind open to both possibilities. You by believeing they are without proof are closing your mind.

Originally posted by mwm1331
I love it when I get guys like you running scared deckard.

I consider this taunting. That'll do.

That's the kind of thing I've been struggling with and try to get others to at least see this. There may be NO aliens visiting Earth and they may have NEVER been here. It's a fairly large possibilty i think people have to come to grips with. Bottom line folks: It's just as likely that we have not been visited at all.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Excatly deckard its my opinion and since God is an unprovable concept thats is all that is required for proof.
However Aliens are not unprovable.
So where is the proof.

THIS is your friggin logic? because you cannot prove gods existance, he exists?

And people wonder why I have often said that Christianity and reason are diametrically opposed opposites.......................

I can see explaining anything to you on this subject will do no, good, as youre off on another un/reality that bears little to do with this one.................................

im sorry, but your above comments have to be about the silliest most nonsensical arguement Ive heard yet.

santa calus is unprovable too. Must mean he exists.........

No skadi, what I said was that because God's existance can not be proven (IE. it is impossible to do so), Then no proof is required for either belief or dsbelief.
In other words becuse Gods existance can not be proven both views (belief or disbelief) are equally valid.
However the same can not be said about EBE visitation of earth. If it is in fact happening then it can be proven, therfore proof is required for belief.

double post





[edit on 18-10-2004 by mwm1331]

Originally posted by mwm1331
Why be nice skadi?
There is a big difference between god and aliens, do you know what it is?
God is unprovable, therefore requiring no proof for either belief or disbelief.
Aliens are provable, all it takes is a dead one. Therefore belief in aliens requires proof.
I neither fear nor attempt to block legtimate research into anything, neither the existance nor nonexistance of aliens wold affect my faith.
The problem is that most so called "UFO researchs" are not legitmate researchers. They are not looking to understand an unknown phenomenon but to prove that aliens exist. The frst step of the scientific method is to observe a phenomenon not as most of you seem to beleve create a hypothesis. If you begn your research with the intent of proving the existance of aliens then the research will be flawed. What I wonder is if, as those of you who beleve we are being vsited claim, EBE have been vsiting the earth for years if not centuries why is there not one single shred of physical proof? Not one piece of technolgy, not one alien cadaver, not one single hard piece of evidence. All we have to go on are the encounters of supposed abductees.
We have proof that at least some abductees are experiencing sleep paralysis.
We have no proof that any abductees have been abducted by EBE's
Thousands of sightings world wide and yet no physical proof whatsoever.
We know that at least some of the so called sightngs are hoaxes, we have no proof that any are genuine.
Now you tell me which is mre unreasonable.
In a situation where there is no physical evidence of a phenomenon, and where at least some of the evidence is known to be fake, why would any open minded person believe that the phenomenon exists?

Why be nice you ask?

After the absolute mass of above, ill-informed and utterly ignorant drivel you have posted, I am tempted to break a few TOS. But i shall refrain.

Your above statement shows your ignorance of:

1. UFO researchers. They are legitmate researchers studying and trying to find answers to a very real phenomina. If you knew anything about UFO investigations, youd know that several scientists and scholars are involved. They arent looking simply for little green men. They are giving study to this phenomina because too many others fear getting involved. many are looking for answers to the nature of this phenomina, and many UFO researchers have other theories on UFOs that have nothing to do with aliens. obviously, youve never heard of Jaques Vallee. You have alot to learn.

2. How do you know nothing proving the existance of aliens has been found? Just because no one has come out with such evidence does not mean it does not exist. Evidence could still be buried somewhere, say under some remote location, underwater, ect. we havent even excavated enough of the earth to really say we know what all lies under the ground.

3. Most researchers in the field started out as simple observers, observing the phenomina. they came to the conclusions of them being extra terrestrial but their own weighing of what evidence they had found. that evidence is alot weighter than the ridiculous theory that god must exist cuz hes unprovable. Again, many researchers have proposed different theories, from extradimensionals, paralell universe travelers, time travelers, to even a new change and evolution of the collective unconciousness. UFO investigators arent only ET orientated, others have formed very fascinating non alien possibilities.

No physical proof whatsoever? God, are you out of touch. i suggest you actually read up on quite a bit of the physical proof a bit and the best cases made so far before making foolish assumptions on something you seem to know little about.

Again skadi you have put words in my mouth.
I did not say "because there is no proof of god he must exist"
I said that because ther is no way of proving he does exist belief is a choice.
Because his existance can not be proven then both belief and disbelief are equally valid.
I am not right for believing you are not right for disbelieving. Neither of us is wrong for either.

You say there is physical proof of EBE visitation of earth.
What proof?
Is there a dead body which can be tested and verified?
Are there any technological artifacts?

Yes there are a few reserachers who do real research. Hwever all of those I would deem credible admit that there is no hard proof only ambigous evidence.

I'm at work at the moment and will return to this thread when I get home (3 or 4 hours from now).

I think it is plain for all to see who truly has the closed-mind on this thread.

IMO-

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. There is probably scads of evidence, hard evidence. But if the conspiracies are true, we will never see any of it. That is unless dicslosure is finally given in to, or something undeniable occurs. About 100 or so ships park above our cities, globally, and stay put for a while. Otherwise we are all left here in this vast wasteland of speculation.

Originally posted by Deckard_BR26354

"Proof" is when the majority of people can look at the evidence and come to the same conclusion. That is to say, that a certain amount of evidence meets their burden of proof.

This stilll looks like credibility over proof. People will believe NASA; they won't believe anyone else.

Indeed this is exactly what it is. When one looks at the evidence, one must decide if it is credible. One cannot prove UFOs do not exist, one can only eliminate evidence they do not find credible. If the remaining evidence still exceeds their burden of proof, one will believe. If it does not, they will not.

Belief in God works in exactly the same way.

Okay, let's put it this way. What would you consider undeniable proof of alien visitation? What would it take for you or the public in general, to satisfy acceptance that EBE's are visiting the Earth?

mwm1331
So again I ask why would you believe in EBE's (as opposed to beleving in the possibility of EBE's) without proof and how is that openminded?

That isn't my position and therefore I don't have to defend it.

I believe that in an infinite Universe everything is possible.

The difference between you and me is that I believe in the possibility that ET may exist and the possibility that God may exist. I am also prepared to accept the possibility that neither of these cases is true.

You are not prepared to accept the fact that God may not exist and you insist that the case for ET be proven while at the same time you need no proof for the existence of God. That's not just a closed mind, that's inconsistant, illogical and irrational.

And let me state again that there is no proof or evidence that God exists. There is evidence that ET exists and some might say enough evidence to meet some peoples 'burdon of proof'. Either way, my mind is open to all the possibilities and yours is not.


[edit on 18/10/2004 by Deckard_BR26354]