Men's rights to Women's reproductive organs - You don't have any.

reply to post by Jepic


So just to let you know, I live in Europe and have to say 80%+ of the population on this side of the big pond, obviously excluding the ultra Catholics, would regard Pro-life discussions we hear of in the US at the moment inappropriate and just as fundamentalist as making women wear a Burka. And yes, if the man has not been wearing protection during intercourse or has clearly stated beforehand his wish to have children, married or not the woman decides to abort or keep the child, with or without the man.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
If he's a deadbeat, don't date him. If she's a career women and your a family guy? Steer clear.

Amazing how simple it is.

Reality news flash. Relationships are never that simple. I think this thread has opened a can of worms and you've just awoken a large majority of men who have been silenced by the system. Including myself. You're correct, men have 0 rights when it comes to their unborn child. 0 rights of their born child if their relationship has not been consummated. 0 rights in the eyes of the judge, and 0 rights in the eyes of the woman.

0 say in the choices of raising a child, 0 say in naming the child, 0 chance of having his name on the BC, 0 say where the child grows up, 0 say in how child support is spent, 0 say in the school selected and 0 say on the guidance. However, men can have a say if they choose to pay the lawyer's game...or can afford to. But it's only a game. Women abuse this system to no end with the advice of their lawyer. Drain him dry and he has no more monetary leverage. Or drain him dry and then say, ok! You get Saturdays. Or ok, I'm done playing this game for now and lets work this out. $20,000 later. It's a joke really and I've seen it happen time and time again. From blackmail to sign over parental rights, to complete disregard of the father for 17 years only to have a drug addicted, death metal superstar high school drop out.

She will lie about her ability to conceive. She will carry to term against his wishes to abort or adopt. She will manipulate to seduce the man with the right genes. She will cheat and not be 100% sure who's child she carries.

But mom is always right.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
However...if you aren't ready to get pregnant, then you should not engage in activity that may cause you to get pregnant.

And if you're not ready to put your sperm in the world's BEST baby-maker and incubator and gamble on giving up all control to what happens, you should not engage in that activity. You simply cannot control what happens inside another human's body.

I'm not ready to have lung cancer...so I don't smoke.

If you don't want your offspring aborted, then don't take that chance.

It's very easy not to get pregnant...it's not a random consequence.

Listen to your own words. It's VERY easy not to impregnate a woman. VERY easy. You have COMPLETE control. If you take the chances, you pay the price.

Originally posted by Jepic
Speaking from the heart. No "pro-life" or "anti-life" or any other agenda for that reason. I believe my beliefs are absolute just, balanced and fair.

DEAL.

That is cute but does not change the fact that your arguments now undo each other. What does that say about what is in your heart? No, I do not have to deal. Like I said, I wanted to say we had a deal but could not. You demanding I deal with it seems to sway me little.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Yes i did, thats why i responded?
Is that all you got?

What i said is basic paraphrasing of what you said. Women have total control of the reproduction arguement and a mans opinion is void because he is a man. What did i miss exactly?

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Curious to know why she has to stand at least 12 feet away from you? Can you not be held responsible for your actions?

Takes two to tango - I can be responsible for mine, but I'm damned if I'll be responsible for hers, too. If she can't handle it, stay the hell away, Problem solved. Same goes for me. I have feet, and I know how to run like the wind.

Funny that, i think its a contraception that can be used by both genders.

Indeed it can. My dear old dad told me where babies come from, and I cut that mess right out until I thought a baby might be a good idea. Again, problem solved. maybe someone ought to take these boys and girls aside and tell them where babies come from, so their reproductive organs can make informed decisions for them.

You may think you're some kind of Lothario, but the fact is it's a rare woman that will give you any consideration at all after she gets your donation.

Because when women have sex, that's all were after. Honestly.

Pretty much, or this conversation wouldn't be happening.

It's all down hill from there, just open your wallet and hand it over. For the next several years.

Personal responsibility, Dont sleep with women who wont go out and look after themselves.

Exactly. if they can't be trusted to handle even that, then they aren't trustworthy enough to take any other chances on, either.

You might think she'll only have you by the balls for that cozy 7 minutes, but facts are that she's have you by the jimmies for a lot longer if you don't guard YOURSELF. She ain't gonna guard it for you, bub.

This message needs to be preached.

I have a son, and I've preached it to him. It appears to have taken, but time will tell. If they're not able to think by the time they're out of the nest, cold hard experience will give them the lessons they need. They shouldn't whine about it afterwards. You pays your dime, and you takes your chances. If you don't want to accept the chances, keep the dime in your pocket... or wherever you hide it. That's unisex - goes either way.

RUN! Run away! Then you can keep buying the premium beer for the rest of your days, instead of buying her and her true love a new house.

Lol.

Yes, I laugh now, but I have actually run away... I mean RUN away - from some truly scary women. Didn't run often enough, but that's another story. There's that cold hard experience rearing it's ugly head!

Originally posted by blackpeppper

Originally posted by Jepic
The woman doesn't have a right to abort if the man wants the baby. As with all, there is always a middle ground. So for example in the case of a woman who wants abortion but the man does not, a good deal would be for the woman to have the baby but hand full responsibility of raising the child to the man. That way the man gets to keep the baby and the mother is free to do as she pleases.

HEY, that totally negates that fact that she DOESN'T WANT TO BE PREGNANT!

If a woman doesn't want to BE pregnant, and she IS pregnant... then abortion is the only option, not adoption.

You don't have a right to kill a being with my genes just because the thought of pregnancy is scary. Besides women are so much stronger nowadays. I mean with this rise of strong, independent and opinionated women we see in our society (such as the OP) surely you are strong enough to handle a temporary pain in exchange for permanent happiness for your partner or husband.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


If I repeat others on this, I apologize. The thread isn't worth reading through.

The simplicity is you can't have it both ways. Claim male responsiblity for financial support etc. and then clain "no rights". The two concepts go hand in hand, "rights and responsiblities".

One doesn't need a womb to love and cherish their children. Each day more men are more active in the rearing of children, successfully, I might add.

You can't pick and choose the rules to suit you then ignore or argue against them at a later time. If you try, you will be ignored....

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Nope, not suggesting that, not sure how you could deduce that from what I said.

Because it is exactly what you wrote.

However...if you aren't ready to get pregnant, then you should not engage in activity that may cause you to get pregnant.

I'm not ready to have lung cancer...so I don't smoke.

It's very easy not to get pregnant...it's not a random consequence.

Reality check:

WOMEN CAN BECOME PREGNANT AGAINST THEIR WILL.
Until you solve that little problem, you cannot pretend it does not exist and is not part of the discussion about women and pregnancy.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Its not a human though. Unless you would like to give me a definition of "human" right here right now and change my mind?

It's not human??? Well then what is it??? Is it a dog? A fish? A lizard? What exactly do you think is growing inside women???

How are we suppose to have a conversation when you think the unborn child is some kind of mystery species until it is born???

When HUMAN gamates fuse together...they create another....HUMAN. They con't create a non-identified clump of cells that doesn't have a species...it doesn't create a vile parasite that is something other than human...it creates a NEW individual HUMAN.

If you don't know this basic information...then I would suggest a course in biology.

But since you don't think it is a human...I have two very simple questions for you.

1) What the hell is it?
2) At what point do you believe something non-human becomes human?

But what gives you the right to tell a woman to abort or carry a baby to term? That's what im getting at.

The same right any human tells another human that it is wrong to kill another innocent human.

What right do you have to tell a man that it is wrong to kill his girlfriend??? That is the same logic I hear when you ask what right I have to tell a women it is wrong for her to kill her unborn child.

But then, that is because I understand modern Biology and logic, and I don't try to make special cases to justify my beliefs.

Im talking about a woman's rights to her reproductive organs via the means of abortion. You just dont get it do you? You want to argue abortion, im arguing reproductive rights for women, we are clearly on two different pages here.

That would be like saying, I don't want to discuss rape...I want to discuss the reproductive rights of men.

And really, by definition...you aren't arguing "reproductive" rights...you are arguing "anti-reproductive" rights.

This is what happens when you try to invent an argument and a justification for your beliefs that go against all modern science and logic. You end up contradicting yourself and having to deny science.

I sleep better knowing i have rights to my own body, dont you?

I don't have problems sleeping...but it does bother me that people will deny science in order to justify their beliefs.

Because being able to bare children is the one and only thing that makes my life viable and to reject that is "lying" to myself, Yup, gotcha. Whatever you say.

And who said that...I believe you are making things up in your head.

You are moving into the realm of emotional responses...take a step back and evaluate what is really causing you to let emotions control you.

When you give me the definition of human, i will use the correct term to publicly identify as pro-choice - even though this thread is about a womans reproductive rights.

I'm just so saddened that I have to define "human".

www.thefreedictionary.com...

hu·man
n.
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.

This is basic biology...when two human gamate cells fuse...they form another HUMAN. Even at the very earliest stages of development...it is a HUMAN. It doesn't start out as being species-less and then at some arbitrary point magically become human...it is always HUMAN.

Again...I'll ask you two very simple questions...if you don't think it is human:
1) What the hell is it?
2) At what point do you believe something non-human becomes human?

Originally posted by Jepic
Rape is a crime. The rules of the game change to favour the victim.
Casual sex is not a crime. The rules of the game change to favour both the man and the woman.

Both involve my reproductive organs and the chance for pregnancy. I am sorry that talking about abortion includes real life situations and is not all neat and tidy.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


When the male contraceptive pill is out on the market.......I strongly suggest they take it or face the consequences

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by Jepic

 

So just to let you know, I live in Europe and have to say 80%+ of the population on this side of the big pond, obviously excluding the ultra Catholics, would regard Pro-life discussions we hear of in the US at the moment inappropriate and just as fundamentalist as making women wear a Burka. And yes, if the man has not been wearing protection during intercourse or has clearly stated beforehand his wish to have children, married or not the woman decides to abort or keep the child, with or without the man.

For rape you are right but for casual sex you are wrong and I shall fight against this type of ideology.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

And if you're not ready to put your sperm in the world's BEST baby-maker and incubator and gamble on giving up all control to what happens, you should not engage in that activity. You simply cannot control what happens inside another human's body.

I 100% agree...and if a man does decide to engage in that activity...he should be held responsible, and he is currently legally held responsible.

Why do you have a double standard...why are you for equality in all other cases except this one???

Listen to your own words. It's VERY easy not to impregnate a woman. VERY easy. You have COMPLETE control. If you take the chances, you pay the price.

None of that justifies murder of another human being OR the defense of an inequality in our society.

BH...I hope you don't deny basic biology as well and deny that it is in fact human.

reply to post by Jepic

Originally posted by Jepic
You don't have a right to kill a being with my genes just because the thought of pregnancy is scary.

Um... Actually a woman does. You put something inside a woman's body, she now has the right to kill it. If I put something in your body, it would be your choice.

Besides women are so much stronger nowadays. I mean with this rise of strong, independent and opinionated women we see in our society (such as the OP)

I get giddy when I see things like this. Some men just hate equality so much! They want it back like it used to be, when men were controlling women. Sorry, that time is long gone. It's 2012 and we control what happens in our bodies.

... surely you are strong enough to handle a temporary pain in exchange for permanent happiness for your partner or husband.

Absolutely we are strong enough. If that's what we choose to do, that's fine.

Originally posted by Jepic

Huh? If you and I decided to have casual sex, you accepted that there is a risk that you might invite my genes is there not?

I never said anything about making decisions to have casual anything. I spoke strictly of biology. No, that was not an invitation.

If I raped you then absolutely you have FULL control of the fate of the child. I have NO say.

That is right, thus negating the vast majority of other pro-life arguments. It is still a "precious life" isn't it? You cannot have it both ways. It is not simple and black and white.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

So, not only are you advocating that a women has total control of the fruits of her reproductive system, But the mans as well?

So women are stealing sperm from men? The OP is advocating that?

I its pretty obvious that the situation you outlined in the OP more than likely happened to you recently, which is why you came to the internets to rage about it.

I would suggest, if you dont want to be put in this situation, people use contraceptives. It seems like a reasonable cost to forgoe having an abortion.

Seems odd all you men have no problem knocking up some chick who may or may not want to have a baby with you but she is a dirty whore if she decides not to.

Originally posted by Myendica

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

You sound happy to treat a woman like a bank - Put in an invest in against her will and withdraw it 9 months later. You think women were put here just for you or something?

to the mods. this post is way beyond insulting and attacking.

my response to this post is as follows;

You dont know anything about how i treat my wife. if you did, you would clearly see i am all for a womans choice. I dont see your arguement as advocating womens choice, rather, advocating selfish thinking.

I apologise if that was a bit close to the bone but you brought up banks and i simply turned it on its head. You cant blame me for being good with words.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It's NOT a human. It has the potential to be. It's either an embryo, a zygote or a fetus. It's not a human being until it's born.

Oh BH...I'm extremely dissapionted.

An embryo, zygote, or fetus is not species-less...every species has them.

So I'm going to ask you a very basic question...what species is the embryo, zygote, or fetus resulting from a HUMAN pregnancy.

BH...have you beliefs...defend them strongly and stand up tall for what you believe in...but please don't go down the road of denying basic science to justify your beliefs. You wouldn't let that pass in any other argument.