No, Neil Armstrong [1930-2012] did NOT see a UFO on his Apollo-11 mission

reply to post by ArMaP

How can anyone present a recording of what they did not hear?

haha....can't believe I missed that during my proof read!!

What I meant to say was that those individual private HAM operators who suggest nothing in recorded conversation was untoward or suggestive of Armstrong seeing something continuously argue that the following conversation did not occur effectively rendering Mr Chris Craft (director of the base in Houston, who made some surprising comments when he left NASA) as some sort of hack or liar who had a bone to pick with NASA:-

two minutes of silence occurred in which the image and sound were interrupted. NASA insisted that this problem was the result of one of the television cameras which had overheated, thus interfering with the reception. This unexpected problem surprised even the most qualified of viewers who were unable to explain how in such a costly project, one of the most essential elements could break down...

Moon: Those are giant things. No, no, no - this is not an optical illusion. No one is going to believe this !
Houston: What ... what ... what ? What the h--- is happening ? What's wrong with you ?
Moon: They're here under the surface.
Houston: What's there ? (muffled noise) Emission interrupted; interference control calling 'Apollo 11'
Moon: We saw some visitors. They were here for a while, observing the instruments
Houston: Repeat your last information !
Moon: I say that there were other spaceships. They're lined up in the other side of the crater !
Houston: Repeat, repeat !
Moon: Let us sound this orbita ... in 625 to 5 ... Automatic relay connected ... My hands are shaking so badly I can't do anything. Film it ? G--, if these d--ned cameras have picked up anything - what then ?
Houston: Have you picked up anything ?
Moon: I didn't have any film at hand. Three shots of the saucers or whatever they were that were ruining the film Houston: Control, control here. Are you on your way ? What is the uproar with the UFOs over ?
Moon: They've landed here. There they are and they're watching us
Houston: The mirrors, the mirrors - have you set them up ?
Moon: Yes, they're in the right place. But whoever made those spaceships surely can come tomorrow and remove them. Over and out.

Hence my comment that it is all heresey. Aldrin, on the other hand, has fuelled speculation that indeed they did see UFO's -

In his book "RETURN TO EARTH" Colonel Edwin E. Aldrin Jr. writes the following on pages 223-224; In the middle of one evening, Houston time, I found myself idly staring out the window of the Columbia and saw something that looked a bit unusual. It appeared brighter than any star and not quite the pinpoints of light that stars are. I pointed this out to Mike and Neil, and the three of us were beset with curiosity. With the help of the monocular we guessed that whatever it was, it was only a hundred or so miles away. Looking at it through our sextant we found it occasionaly formed a cylinder, but when the sextant's focus was adjusted it had a sort of illuminated "L" look to it. It had a shape of some sort -- we all agreed on that -- but exactly what it was we couldnt pin down. We asked Houston some casual questions: "How far away is the Saturn third stage?" The response was in the vicinity of six thousand miles. That wasn't it. It could possibly have been one of the panels of the Saturn third stage which fly off to expose the LM and cannot be traced from earth. We could see it for about forty-five seconds at a time as the ship rotated, and we watched it on and off for about an hour. We debated whether or not to tell the ground we had spotted something, and decided against it. Our reason was simple: The UFO people would descend on the message in hordes, setting off another rash of UFO spottings back on earth. We concluded it was most likely on of the panels. Its course appeared in no way to conflict with ours, and it presented no danger. We dropped the matter there.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by ArMaP

 

What I meant to say was that those individual private HAM operators who suggest nothing in recorded conversation was untoward or suggestive of Armstrong seeing something continuously argue that the following conversation did not occur effectively rendering Mr Chris Craft (director of the base in Houston, who made some surprising comments when he left NASA) as some sort of hack or liar who had a bone to pick with NASA:-

I'd appreciate it if you could cite any checkable documentation about any such alleged comments by Craft. I'd like to be able to ask him directly about them, but I would need some specific allegations.


Here's NASA's own "moon pigeons" study from 1972:
www.jamesoberg.com...


By the way, here are some links to studiy results of mine published long ago.


Chapter on Apollo-11 UFOs from my 1982 book
www.debunker.com...


"Myths and Mysteries of the Moon" Chapter 4, "UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries", 1982
www.jamesoberg.com...


Astronauts and UFOs -- The Whole Story (large PDF - 7.7mb)
Space World magazine, February 1977
www.jamesoberg.com...


Astronaut "UFO" Sightings
Fall 1978, THE SKEPTICAL INQUIRER
www.debunker.com...

I contacted alien :
first i got in hypnosis(mild) so i can see and walk and talk. Then i contacted dark force which i can comunicate with the same way as with alien,sort of .
Then i got permision from dark force , which represents highest protection of earth from anything material out there .
Then i turned on my plasma TV and when the high wave came I was looking straight in to it .Signal was showing no contact on dark sreen . Suddenly it started getting blue and i could see digital world inside plasma .Then he came . He didnt looked in to ma face but was just staying sideways covering his head . He telepaticly asked me for communication which i agreed on . He used surrounding sound from my area as language when he spoke . To my surprise i dint had to use telepaty any more , I could spoke the same way .My lips and tongue was moving and i was speaking with him the same way . It was short communication and i will not describe whats up .Just when we were done he lifted his hand and laid it on screen , he had three fingers and i laid my hand on his .
One more thing , before he apeared there were also three stooges trying to fool me off , he asked me about them , i said , no worries, they harmless I can concentrate and will take my time . In about third wave he was still there and waiting for my answer .

Here's a video of Buzz explaining why they never said anything about the UFO's because they knew other people would be listening in.

Originally posted by buster2010
Here's a video of Buzz explaining why they never said anything about the UFO's because they knew other people would be listening in.

And so he's now admitting they DID see a UFO, you're suggesting?

reply to post by Sublimecraft


I see it as a compliment

Originally posted by JimOberg
Chapter on Apollo-11 UFOs from my 1982 book
www.debunker.com...

Regarding the reports of 'secret transcripts' of astronaut conversations about UFOs on the moon, I concluded that they are all hoaxes, and clumsy ones at that. They were made up by creative journalists and writers, and Otto Binder was probably one of the hoaxers. There was not a scrap of evidence that I could find, or that anyone else could show me, that such short wave listeners with such recordings ever actually existed. Not one scrap.

Has some new evidence emerged?

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by buster2010
Here's a video of Buzz explaining why they never said anything about the UFO's because they knew other people would be listening in.

And so he's now admitting they DID see a UFO, you're suggesting?

Did you watch the video? The words he is using aren't scientific so it shouldn't be that hard to understand. They saw something and didn't know what it was that makes it a UFO. UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object.

Originally posted by buster2010
Did you watch the video? The words he is using aren't scientific so it shouldn't be that hard to understand. They saw something and didn't know what it was that makes it a UFO. UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object.

I addressed that earlier in the thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The word UFO was used by the narrator, not by Aldrin. The producers edited what Aldrin said and from what I understand, Aldrin wasn't happy about it.

Larry King didn't edit out Aldrin's explanation of what he saw like the producers of that show did, so you can see a less edited explanation on this Larry King show:

reply to post by JimOberg


James - you and I both know that is near impossible. Why?

Well, first we need to track down:-

Author Sam Pepper (otherwise unidentified and he has since vanished) whom gave this version of "the top secret tape transcript" from "a leak close to the top", as follows:

(What followed was the apparent conversation I quoted above)

Secondly, we need Aldrin to take a lie-detector test - he is the key to all of this now that Armstrong is no longer with us. Then he needs to be asked the same things - hopefully without getting upset (as he appears very touchy on the subject when approached these days)

You do not need anything further from me to approach Mr Craft and query him about this - what you need is for him to also take a lie detector test so that any answer he gives (assuming he would) would seemingly put this to bed one way or the other.

My stance on this event is based primarily of Timothy Goods work whom I find highly credible. That's not to say that I am not open to alternatives - and if the resultant alternatives manifest the real truth then so be it - I am not "hoping" they saw something - I know UFO's (the non-earthy type) exist, but when rumours persist for so long that they apparently did see something "other worldly" then there must be an element of "truth" to it - until such time I am doubtful of the official version of events.

I am not a journalist - looking at your website I suggest you are (or are qualified in that field) - I have not had the opportunity to take a look at the contents therein but certainly will as it appears you have been down this path already.

I'm curious, have you ever spoken to Timothy Good about Sam Pepper or the lunar observations Armstrong and Aldrin apparently made? - my understanding is that he (if indeed Sam is a he) disappeared for self-preservation due to the information on the transcript - am I right in assuming that or did this Sam not exist in the first place?

On a personal note - I am very glad to have met someone of your calibre and hope we can continue to discuss this and other related topics at length - please afford me the opportunity to study your website for a few days, but in the meantime, what say you regarding this response?

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
what you need is for him to also take a lie detector test so that any answer he gives (assuming he would) would seemingly put this to bed one way or the other.

I don't think a lie detector test would put anything to bed, as some people would claim lie detectors aren't completely reliable (a claim I'd agree with). If you doubt this, just read some of the replies on this thread about Travis Walton's lie detector test:

Travis Walton (Moment Of Truth) Proof, Hes A Liar!!

Not once did MSNBC, or any media for that matter, question the USA's intelligence on the threat of Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion. Instead they championed it.

Why should any of us listen to what they say nine years later?

Did you ever wonder why the Moon landings stopped and why we have not tried to build a Moon Base? It does seem like a better and easier idea than a floating space station with no access to any raw materials or supplies? According to the NASA Astronaut Neil Armstrong the aliens have a base on the Moon and told us in no uncertain terms to get off and stay off the Moon. The last moon landing was Apollo 17 launched on the 7th December 1972

According to hitherto unconfirmed reports with calls to their offering no help, both Neil Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin saw UFOs shortly after their historic landing on the Moon in Apollo 11 on 21 July 1969. One of the astronauts refer to a "light" in or on a carter during the television transmission, followed by a request from mission control for further information. Nothing more was heard.

According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed radio hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed NASA's broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange:

NASA: What's there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

Apollo: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous! OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching us!

In 1979, Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. "The encounter was common knowledge in NASA," he revealed, "but nobody has talked about it until now."

Soviet scientists were allegedly the first to confirm the incident. "According to our information, the encounter was reported immediately after the landing of the module," said Dr. Vladimir Azhazha, a physicist and Professor of Mathematics at Moscow University. "Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But his message was never heard by the public-because NASA censored it. "

According to another Soviet scientist, Dr. Aleksandr Kazantsev, Buzz Aldrin took color movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after he and Armstrong went outside. Dr. Azhazha claims that the UFOs departed minutes after the astronauts came out on to the lunar surface.

Originally posted by Kentucky
In 1979, Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. "The encounter was common knowledge in NASA," he revealed, "but nobody has talked about it until now."

Since Maurice Chatelain was NEVER 'chief of NASA Communications Systems' [never worked for NASA in any capacity, and had briefly been a contractor employee before being fired years before the Apollo-11 landing], the only thing your post proves is how foolishly gullible you are. But this is a chance for you to get some much-need clues about verifying these kinds of Internet myths.

Unless you can dig out some verifiable evidence that Chatelain ever held the position you want us to believe he had. Please make a go at it.

As for Binder, you may find more reliable information about him here:
secretsun.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by Frith
Not once did MSNBC, or any media for that matter, question the USA's intelligence on the threat of Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion. Instead they championed it.

Why should any of us listen to what they say nine years later?

Frith, in all my coverage of space topics since I was hired as their 'space consultant' the day after 'Columbia' was destroyed, have you found a single factual or analysis flaw you have evidence to dispute?

Averting your eyes from one article based on a irrelevant and ancient commonality with some other subject entirely strikes me as simply silly -- and maybe desperately closed-minded.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by JimOberg

 

James - you and I both know that is near impossible. Why?

Well, first we need to track down "Author Sam Pepper".

Why whack at the branches when it's the trunk you're interested in?

Check out amateur radio listeners private associations to see who was involved in monitoring Apollo transmissions -- it is NOT a trivial task you can do with a desk shortwave receiver and a wire hanging out the window -- and talk with them about who else they knew who was doing that activity [it would have been a short list and the folks involved knew each other].

That's very difficult to do today because of so many years passing. That's why it was easier, when I did it, in the 1979-1980 period. My results: nobody involved knew of anybody else doing it who made any such claims.

The requirement is for the person claiming it happened to provide proof. those who have concluded it did NOT hapen do not bear the burden of poroof to DISprove it.

Besides, those tabloids of that era often used made-up author's pseudonyms for their small stable of regular writers, so the actual identity of the author may be undiscoverable after all this time.

Secondly, we need Aldrin to take a lie-detector test - he is the key to all of this now that Armstrong is no longer with us. Then he needs to be asked the same things - hopefully without getting upset (as he appears very touchy on the subject when approached these days)

A polygraph test, on what basis? Your sense of proportion is wa-a-a-a-ay out of whack here. If there were any EVIDENCE that the transmissions even occurred, sure, maybe there'd be justification. But an anonymous tabloid newspaper third-hand claim? You can't be serious.

You do not need anything further from me to approach Mr Craft and query him about this - what you need is for him to also take a lie detector test so that any answer he gives (assuming he would) would seemingly put this to bed one way or the other.

You need first to specify exactly WHAT Craft is supposed to have said, to whom, and how we should even believe it. You haven't even done that. With some reasonably-well-sourced allegation, I have no problem running the story past him for his comment.

My stance on this event is based primarily of Timothy Goods work whom I find highly credible.

Tim's enthusiasm and dramatic flair often far outruns his reliable evidence, I've found. I don't know if there's ever been an unsourced gossip rumor he was able to resist.

.... when rumours persist for so long that they apparently did see something "other worldly" then there must be an element of "truth" to it - until such time I am doubtful of the official version of events.

Well, I don't consider the unending stream of eager-believer gullible victims of the same old rumors to be of ANY evidentiary value regarding the authenticity of the stories, but then I'm old and cynical.

I am not a journalist - looking at your website I suggest you are (or are qualified in that field) - I have not had the opportunity to take a look at the contents therein but certainly will as it appears you have been down this path already.

As you will discover, I'm not an outside observer and reporter of these events -- I'm a 'rocket scientist' intimately involved in the space program for decades, and a co-worker and friend of many of the astronauts mentiioned in these stories.

I'm curious, have you ever spoken to Timothy Good about Sam Pepper or the lunar observations Armstrong and Aldrin apparently made? - my understanding is that he (if indeed Sam is a he) disappeared for self-preservation due to the information on the transcript - am I right in assuming that or did this Sam not exist in the first place?

Good and I corresponded on these themes in the 1980s, and he advised me he was of the same mind as you have described -- the stories are too good NOT to believe, unless irrefutably debunked. He didn't feel it was his responsibility to PROVE anything. On that basis, he was quite happy to believe that contrary testimony from astronauts and space workers was all lies.

On a personal note - I am very glad to have met someone of your calibre and hope we can continue to discuss this and other related topics at length - please afford me the opportunity to study your website for a few days, but in the meantime, what say you regarding this response?

Ditto back atcha, I'm always interested in learning more about how intelligent, enthusiastic, well-spoken and future-oriented people can come into this area of folklore/knowledge, and how they can use internet tools to get a sound all-around background in the controversial claims that are so widely believed.

Buster, do you see how you were conned by the producers of that news spot you cited as evidence? They used creative editing to make you believe something that Aldrin himself didn't. Please take this opportunity to escape from your victimization, and realize how you were misled.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The word UFO was used by the narrator, not by Aldrin. The producers edited what Aldrin said and from what I understand, Aldrin wasn't happy about it. Larry King didn't edit out Aldrin's explanation of what he saw like the producers of that show did, so you can see a less edited explanation on this Larry King show:

reply to post by JimOberg


Thanks James - I appreciate the clarification on those items I have mentioned in my previous post.

As they say - "lets leave it up to the experts shall we"

Looks like I have some re-evaluation to do - ATS should be thankful that you are a long standing and respected member of this community.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Thanks James - I appreciate the clarification on those items I have mentioned in my previous post.

As they say - "lets leave it up to the experts shall we"

Looks like I have some re-evaluation to do - ATS should be thankful that you are a long standing and respected member of this community.

Aw, shucks -- what I'm most interested, after making some investigative contributions, is helping develop methods that anybody can use, on their own, to find out all angles and spins on these kinds of controversial stories. Search engines don't seem to help -- they reward mindless repetitions of the same original stories. I'm really open to creative suggestions here on how to make my presence redundent [a blessing that many on the threads may fervently desire!].

I can picture the scene on the Moon, Buzz and co see craft,mission control reminds them to stay quite and remember their briefing and signed national security data protection acts punishable with a massive fine or imprisonment or something worse. Lets take a step back and deal with the "IFs" of this subject;

1; Would the PAB at NASA and governmental intelligence sources have any consignancy plans in place to deal with any possible sightings or actual alien craft on the moon.???

2;Would there have been a national security briefing with all concerned and not just the astronauts with protocols to follow in the event of alien craft being observed??

3; If none of the above happened then WHY NOT??To think that NASA ect actually believed that we were alone and there was no life out their or capable of advanced technology is to me absurd and insulting to most human perceptions including intelligent and non academical intelligence of the human kind;

My point is would NASA ect take the risk with having NO briefing on the protocols which dealt with any possible contact , sighting with off world intelligences , would they risk the whole world either seeing or hearing off world craft on the moon ?? My answer to these points is no , that no way would NASA ext take the risk of off world crafts ect being given the green light of reality by live televised and radio communications from the astronauts on the moon to a viewing world public.

If there was no briefing by NASA to stay silent ect and the reality that Buzz ect did encounter off world craft ect WOULD IT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO HAVE BEEN TRANSMITTED BY TV AND BY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS:??

These above points are well worth and deserving of consideration considering the myths or rumours of the nature of the topic of this thread and when they surface from time to time.Who is making the most noise if nothing was seen.No smoke without fire.