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Australia rejects permanent US military presence - welcomes long term relationship with China.

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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:06 PM
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Foreign Minister Bob Carr rejected the idea of a permanent US military base in Australia. "In fact, the Americans will not seek it because of the cost involved at a time when they are going to have to produce more cuts in their defence spending," he told Sky News. "And second, because it doesn't fit with the way they project power. "But above all... it's not in Australia's interest."



Carr said Canberra understood China's military modernisation and accepted that its rise in economic power would be matched by a defence upgrade. "But just as we accept that, you, the Chinese, must accept that we are a small population holding a large continent and will, as we have done historically, look to an alliance with the United States," he said. "But we reject utterly any notion of containing China. We look to engage with China."Link...


Well this is an interesting turn of events. Being a local lad from Perth, Western Australia, it was only a few weeks ago that the notion of a permanent US military presence over on Garden Island was being thrown around the news and discussed here on ATS.

I wonder what has changed our politicians tune? Is it a general decline in US support - I would suggest this has alot to do with it especially given Carrs comments about it not being in Australia's best interests and

"I don't think Australians will be comfortable defining themselves with permanent American bases."


At a grass roots level and speaking from the "coal face" a lot of people here are mighty pissed at the way US foreign policy has a blatant disregard for human life - evidenced by Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, apparent support for Israels treatment of the Palestinian people and list the list could go on - don't get me wrong - I love the American people but detest their foreign policy and leaders (Ron Paul being the only exception)

I for one welcome this turn of events - its high time America pulled out of a lot of things and perhaps looked at cleaning up its own back yard instead of peering over the fence to criticize the state of her neighbours back yard.

Over here the China relationship is no big deal - anyone who works up in the NW shelf in the Oil & Gas or Mining Industries is fully aware that China is our biggest customer now and in the future.

BUT - this is an interesting observation.

Gorgon Project (Barrow Island) is potentially worth $300+ Billion to Australia.
-Major employer is Chevron (Kellogg group)
-Major customer is China.

Like they say - money talks and bulls#!t walks and in this regard the US and China are lovers and Australia is their little love nest - but you won't hear the MSM giving you these simple truths.




posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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I found this quote interesting




And second, because it doesn't fit with the way they project power


Love and harmony
Whateva



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Whateva69
 



And second, because it doesn't fit with the way they project power


Therein lies an entire thread on its own - I did read that but didn't want to go there. "The way they Project Power" conjures up images of WWII Nazi's to me.

Is American heading down that road - just disguised under the banner of "democracy"? Yes Yes I know America is not a democracy as such but the point is that they are acting "holier than thou" in countries that they should not even be in.

Good observation spacelass.............



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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I bet they will love how china projects power

I agree with not wanting bases of foreign gov'ts on your soil

but what does "long term relationship" mean ?

that would make me a lot more uneasy tbh


+2 more 
posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Whateva69
I found this quote interesting




And second, because it doesn't fit with the way they project power


Love and harmony
Whateva


Translation...






posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by Sublimecraft


Foreign Minister Bob Carr rejected the idea of a permanent US military base in Australia. "In fact, the Americans will not seek it because of the cost involved at a time when they are going to have to produce more cuts in their defence spending," he told Sky News. "And second, because it doesn't fit with the way they project power. "But above all... it's not in Australia's interest."


I wonder what has changed our politicians tune?


Nothing has changed at all. The official plan was never about permanent bases. The article the OP presents is just Carr reiterating that point.



Wall Street Journal, November 10, 2011,

The agreement will lead to an increase in U.S. naval operations off the coast of Australia and give American troops and ships "permanent and constant" access to Australian facilities, the people said. While no new American bases will be built under the plan, the arrangement will allow U.S. forces to place equipment in Australia and set up more joint exercises, they said.

online.wsj.com...
edit on 25-8-2012 by METACOMET because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by syrinx high priest
 



but what does "long term relationship" mean ? that would make me a lot more uneasy tbh


Well - in regards to the Gorgon project the long term forecast is approx 50 years of Gas alone - and there is an even bigger project in the pipeline (pardon the pun) - That being the Wheatstone Project which not too many Aussies are aware of - I am because I work directly with Chevron. Once again the biggest potential customer is China.

Australia sees an economic relationship with China as the natural course of events I think and as long as the likes of Chevron have a finger in the pie Australia will remain "mates" with both countries - are we treading a fine line here?

Only time will tell I suppose but we have already been invaded by (corporate) America anyway!!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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I think what it comes down to is cost and the fact the US does not need a base in Australia with both Vietnam and the Phillipines courting to the US with better strategic options. However considering a Australian General just became the Deputy Commander of US Army Pacific, that is all US Army forces in that part of the world outside of South Korea, then you can be sure Australia is tying itself closer to the US than ever. And they are not alone in that part of the world.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:11 PM
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No, this is reality looking at us. Quite a few chinese in Australia not to mention the chinese owned mining companies and stuff, it's raising some hairs down there. And honestly, from an economic point, it would make a lot more sense to do business with China rather than the US.

The Chinese know what time it is! I wonder if Bill Clinton knew he and the US was being played with that trade agreement with them?

Nah they knew



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


Better there than here. Here being the US of course. Its not like being in Australia makes it any easier for the Chinese to invade. So who really cares? Personally It makes me ill to think of Chiese mega corps in the US. Poor people, or others that want a better life and just happen to be Chinese, I say bring them over, sorry dont want to get off topic.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Australia has to do whats in its best interests. And I can understand their dislike of American Foreign Policy over the last decade. But Australia has to be very careful on the course it charts.

China's rise and economic expansion has been good for Western Australia and Australia as a whole. However with the current global economic depression that is about to hit both China and Australia will be especially hit hard.

China has been dependent upon exports for here massive expansion. But over the last few years as the Chinese economy has slowed but they have continued with the massive expansion and have funded it with massive amounts of debt.

There are two ways China can combat this problem, 1.) Pray the World Economy recovers (doubtful with a 720 trillion dollar debt bomb that's about to start the largest economic depression in history) or 2.) Focus on developing a Domestic Economy. But sadly the Chinese Government has chosen the Former rather than the Latter.

But if China can survive the economic depression and not collapse in upon its self. They could be poised to dramatically expand across Southeast Asia and the Pacific. This would put Australia firmly in China's Cross-hairs.

Who know what the global power balance will look like after the Economic Crash. Only time will tell



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by syrinx high priest
 



but what does "long term relationship" mean ? that would make me a lot more uneasy tbh


Well - in regards to the Gorgon project the long term forecast is approx 50 years of Gas alone - and there is an even bigger project in the pipeline (pardon the pun) - That being the Wheatstone Project which not too many Aussies are aware of - I am because I work directly with Chevron. Once again the biggest potential customer is China.

Australia sees an economic relationship with China as the natural course of events I think and as long as the likes of Chevron have a finger in the pie Australia will remain "mates" with both countries - are we treading a fine line here?

Only time will tell I suppose but we have already been invaded by (corporate) America anyway!!


thanks for the reply. war and economics makes for odd bed fellows, so why not two partners ?

lol



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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No one wants American troops on their soil. They are murderers. They kill innocent families in the name of peace? Stopping terrorism? They are terrorists!
America, stay home!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by METACOMET
 



The official plan was never about permanent bases. The article the OP presents is just Carr reiterating that point.


Ah - yes it was about permanent bases - unless the underlined section below can be interpreted otherwise?



A US military report, to be formally released tomorrow, contains a recommendation to massively expand America's defence presence in Australia by building a base in Perth for a US aircraft carrier and supporting fleet.The plan is included as part of one of four options set out in a report by the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), commissioned by the Department of Defence.link...



edit on 25-8-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


Agreed on permenant having just recently been the plan. Somewhere buried on another thread from fairly recently, I'd posted some of that data myself. The U.S. was definitely floating a trial balloon about basing at least one Carrier in Australia. Reports I read suggested the possibility of 2 when a second one on the other coast. It looked insane and still does as even a suggestion.

I hope the China thing works out though.... Tibet doesn't seem too thrilled with Chinese hospitality after expressing their rather strong dislike .....before being invaded and raped as a nation. Perhaps China has changed a bit...and won't play hardball when no one is left around to say something. I hope so, for the sake of all you folks in Australia. The track history isn't a certain thing either way.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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The future of the US military is going to be small bases, think lily pads. Gone are the days of big bases. Also, US Pacific Command is based in Guam.

The idea of China invading Australia is baseless. They already have, just have a look around your house and see how many products are made in China. Go to an Australian university, who are the students that are studying PhD's? They are mostly Saudi's and Chinese.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Yes, the US is wanting to build two Carrier bases, one in Perth and one in Brisbane (to patrol both oceans respectively), while expanding their Marine count in Darwin. Furthermore, the US was looking to construct a permanent drone/air base on Australia's Cocos Islands...

_________________________________________________________________________________________

As for my personal opinion regarding this matter. Further relationship ties with China is welcome...after all we need them as much as they need us. Australia refusing permanent US bases is also welcome. There are already permanent bases in Australia (see Pine Gap for example), and we are already sharing some bases with the US down here. As a result, there is no need for the US to go building many bases down here like they own the joint. That being said however, i would welcome further military ties with the US.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 


Having just re-read this thread I am a little more familiar with both your stance and that of the Rabbit regarding this developing situation - both of which give very valid points.


That being said however, i would welcome further military ties with the US.


I think you will have your wish granted but those ties will be a different animal to what you or I may perceive - as ATS member deessell above has intimated, the new relationship will be more specialized because the "enemy" is not as transparent as it used to be - hell the "terrorists" are everywhere - is the standard calling card from the MSM these days and quite frankly its starting to wear a bit thin in my book.

To me, these military relationships are driven by financial and economic gain and have little to do with "protection" of the innocents - blind Freddie can see that you would think but the "dumbing down of society" is keeping the vast majority of people oblivious to what is really going on as these military powers position themselves for a seat at the NWO table - so to speak.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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Smart move.

1. China is in their back yard.
2. China has not waged war on anyone in decades. Contrast that to the U.S. and you have at least (not counting covert):

Vietnam
Iraq, twice
Afghanistan
Panama
Grenada
Somalia
Pakistan
Yemen
Libya

Most Americans are too blind (or irrational) to see it, but it is a matter of fact as evidenced by history that the U.S. is the world's greatest threat to other nations.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by daaskapital

There are already permanent bases in Australia (see Pine Gap for example), and we are already sharing some bases with the US down here. As a result, there is no need for the US to go building many bases down here like they own the joint. That being said however, i would welcome further military ties with the US.


Yes, but those bases are SIGINT, which are part of the UKUSA agreement dating back to the 1950s.







 
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