Originally posted by sjag9
This whole thread is ridiculous. I've been in the military for over 15 years and not one time EVER have I heard of such baloney. Also, why would you put stickers on the BACK of signs? You can't read them until you pass the thing! Also, the crap about reading the backs of signs with night vision goggles while driving 50 mph is just that...crap. It's against safety regulations to drive over 25 mph using night vision IF there was no GPS or roadsigns we'd just get out the 'ol map and compass, pay attention to our odometers and we'd get there just the same.

[edit on 15-9-2004 by sjag9]

It is ridiculous. Makes no sense what so ever.


With regards to the Washington Post story linked earlier:
I am glad that FEMA at least has something together in the (god-forbid) time of a national disaster. So many complain that the Govt. did nothing before 911. Now they are and they are getting criticised for it!

Originally posted by Carrierwave
Pardon me, but I doubt very few of you got past the first page on the tacmar website. READ!!! All the objections I just read above are answered on the website quite extensively.

I read the entire website and had a very big laugh over it. So did the rest of my team. This is bogus.

There is also several references to GPS and maps on the website, why in a worse case scenario GPS will be useless. READ ABOUT IT!

The military utilizes GPS so much there is very little chance of anyone tampering, turning off or otherwise interfering with the signal. Why would we?

.....These stickers mark routes for a specific pre-determined plan. Maps alone could never follow a secret route network without confirmation, point of reference indicators.

Strip Maps would and do.

As for reading the markers on the back of the signs. Again you didn't read much of the website. The military staging areas page gives the answer to this objection. READ! Training at Camp Grayling with night vision and "reverse reflective illumination" can read the back of road signs from the drivers seat with a infrared light . I have been to the "land navigational training grounds" at the Camp and there are road signs setup with markers on them. They drive totally in the dark with night vision at 50 mph through trails with only a small infrared slit-light on the back of the vehicle to read the markers with perfect directional clarity. READ about it on the website!!!!

What are you talking about? You do not drive 50mph using night vision! They did not drive that fast in the desert, you do not drive that fast in the woods or on civilian roads. Do some homework on nightvision devices. Imagine yourself driving that fast reading markers that you just passed and having someone shine a light at you vehicle. Bye-Bye you, the vehicle and everything inside because you just got blinded and went off the road. Better yet, take a drive tonight, at 50mph, don't look out the front windshield, just use your rear view mirror. Only then will you realize how dumb that sounds.

Have you seen the training at Grayling? Or are you just taking someone else's word on it? I have. They do not train like that.

I haven't researched what the navy officer said so I can't comment on it, but there is a Tactical Marking System that we use Overseas.

Like I said in a previous post. I travel quite a but CONUS for the military. You have made such a big deal about this that I made it a point to stop whenever I cought a glimpse of a sticker on a sign. They were all property inventory stickers with bar codes. {Ever wonder why on the website you saw photos of the stickers, but never a close up of one} I checked with local law enforcement. In just about every case, I was told that they use them for identification and exact location of the sign in case it is removed or stolen. Their road maintenance crews use them for the same thing. Inventory. The bar codes tell them when the sign was installed, location, etc.

I hope you feel better when you come out of your fantasy world and back to reality.

[edit on 16-9-2004 by NightStalker]

Tell us about the tactical marking system used overseas, sir, and why they use it.

Quote from Washington Post article clearly says "military": Note the photo of the "arrow up" on the sign, the signcode website has been noting arrow-up signs as military codes back well before 911.

"Left unsaid is what wide-scale catastrophe might prompt an order for 180,000 federal workers, 572,000 residents and countless commuters, tourists and visitors to leave Washington on a typical workday -- or require military or out-of-state emergency crews to steer their way downtown."

[edit on 16-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

So how do you explain these labels on the back of temporary signs like construction signs? We have tons of road construction going on and those signs go up and down and are relocated routinely around the city and they have these things on them as well.

Are there constantly moving relocation centers, helopads and vaccination centers???

A good point. Temporary signs are coded and are another opportunity to add additional attention to already existing sites that are marked. This has been seen during parades, and detour routes. If you are observant, next time they put up these temporary signs, note where they position them. They will put them in front of buildings such as public schools, airports, fairgrounds, police stations. Pay close attention to the markers and where they are positioned in reference to such sites. (dated temporary signs? those battered old construction signs with highly reflective warranty stickers on the back?--what a crock!)

Some of the orange construction signs have stenciled lettering spray painted on the back with some slogan-- "Give 'em a Brake" note how they turn the lettering on end or extremely tilt them before an up-coming turn noting the direction to take on the route intended. Or in front of a building that is already marked. It is the same code as the tacmars. You can thank your local FEMA agent and sheriff/police deptments and Road commission for setting these up for Garden Plot if the conditions were to ensue.

At one detour in our city they diverted traffic around a yearly festival parade and the detour always goes down the same roads. (There were other routes that could have been used that wrere shorter.) On these roads are the critical and emergency sites, detention, law enforcement, airport, public schools, fairgrounds. Each year the same "orange" detour signs are placed by each of these sites with an "ARROW- UP" saying "PARADE DETOUR ROUTE". We believe these are exercises for law enforcement/FEMA to train or even be prepared if national emergency such as a nuclear/chem/bio attack were to ensue on a national level and martial law instated. FEMA has all kinds of sites marked as "possible usage" for military confiscation. Storage units are a biggy for this. especially the ones with barbed wire. Temporary signs are great cover tools for additional coding of important sites and routes.

Let me say this, our MG/GPS systems are vulnerable. DON'T LET ANYONE FOOL YOU WITH THAT! OUR GPS SATELLITES AND GROUND TRANSMITTERS ARE MILITARY TARGETS AND OUR GOVERNMENT KNOWS IT!

Carrierwave~

[edit on 16-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

[edit on 16-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

Originally posted by NightStalker
Has anyone thought about the following:

1) The stickers are on the back of the sign.
{This means that you would have to be going the wrong way to see it!}

2) You can not see the stickers from the opposite lane.
{Guess the NWO drives in the wrong lane on the wrong side of the road.}

Or maybe the Britts are going to use them since they and the chinese(?) drive on the left hand side of the road? OMG GB is going to invade the US!

I was told by a special forces Marine who trained with British troops at Camp Grayling, Michigan that the markers are read through rear-view mirrors. And they use an infrared slit light on the back of their vehicles to illuminate the markers. As H. Green points out on his website, directional value of the markers are navigationally correct from the drivers seat because things are viewed backwards in mirrors. This does work because we have tried it many times and found it to be true. This way you do not have to stop or look back at the back of the sign for directions. Markers on the opposite side of the road are easily viewed as you are looking at the back of those signs anyway. Whether they can drive at 50 miles an hour with night vision and do this I do question, but that is what the Marine said.

I have personally seen the signs on the land navigation range at Camp Grayling and they are practicing using arrow configurations and markers on the backs of the signs.

Carrierwave~

In the Digital age, when GPS and dedicated communication systems that cost Billions of dollars are in use by the Military....they are going to put post it notes on the back of highway signs..???

get real.

Our so-called digital age is the most vulnerable age to infrastructural suicide. It is our "achilles heal" and our government knows it.

Again, the signcode information is dealing with a major catastrophe where electronic, informational society could grind to a halt. Your point is shallow thinking. GPS is vulnerable. I do not see any military relying on GPS soley because it costs "billions" and is hi-tech. So what. Tell that to the US troops in Iraq last year that were caught in an ambush when they took a wrong turn relying on MG/GPS that was malfunctioning. It is also a fact that if you travel around any military training areas they are rife with reflective markers, color coded signals, stakes, ribbons, and spray painted trees with number codes. Why? Because they *KNOW* GPS is vunerable, and that training without it is essential. There are contingencies for every military operation as ubsurd as you might think they are I do not believe any military will put all of it's navigational eggs in one GPS basket. The tacmars are confirmation signals and make logical sense if you are a thinking person.

Carrierwave~





[edit on 22-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

Originally posted by Carrierwave
Tell us about the tactical marking system used overseas, sir, and why they use it.

They use it because the signs are easier to read. Not all personell in the military are fluid in foreign languages.

Quote from Washington Post article clearly says "military": Note the photo of the "arrow up" on the sign, the signcode website has been noting arrow-up signs as military codes back well before 911.

That sign is and was designed to designate an EVACUATION ROUTE during an emergency. Gee, I bet the people in Florida and the other states that have been hit by storms lately are glad they are in place. That sign was made for CIVILIANS. To let them know what the approved, safe evacuation route is.

"Left unsaid is what wide-scale catastrophe might prompt an order for 180,000 federal workers, 572,000 residents and countless commuters, tourists and visitors to leave Washington on a typical workday -- or require military or out-of-state emergency crews to steer their way downtown."

Wow; the population uses them to leave the disaster and the rescue crews use them to get to it. Is it a big suprise to you that the military would be part of a rescue operation?

Originally posted by Carrierwave
I was told by a special forces Marine who trained with British troops at Camp Grayling, Michigan that the markers are read through rear-view mirrors. And they use an infrared slit light on the back of their vehicles to illuminate the markers. As H. Green points out on his website, directional value of the markers are navigationally correct from the drivers seat because things are viewed backwards in mirrors. This does work because we have tried it many times and found it to be true. This way you do not have to stop or look back at the back of the sign for directions. Markers on the opposite side of the road are easily viewed as you are looking at the back of those signs anyway. Whether they can drive at 50 miles an hour with night vision and do this I do question, but that is what the Marine said.

I have personally seen the signs on the land navigation range at Camp Grayling and they are practicing using arrow configurations and markers on the backs of the signs.

Carrierwave~

Carrierwave First off - go get some military experience!!!!
I have served in the military in a foreign country for 3 years and we were NEVER and I mean NEVER were informed, trained, or told of these markers.

Carrier - what is your military experience? Which branch did you serve in? How long did you serve?

Relying on what someone else told you, regardless of who they are, is called second hand information. Second hand information is not always reliable unless there is some sort of physical evidence.

Do you have some type of physical evidence, even a website? Oh yes, your washington DC article. That article is called Emergency Disaster Preparedness. It is showing an example on how big cities handle emergency planning.
So what else do you have for evidence? And please no cousins' brothers' husband told you something. We need something that can be examined. And not the DC article again or the article from someone in the middle east. I have seen those articles on other sites like this one. So I figure you are just cut and pasting from those other websites.

Come on Carrier, PLEASE be original. I know you can do it!!! Come on, give us something that you can find on your own.

Here's the problem with people like you. In your mind everyone "else" is a liar except you because *you* were "in the military". I am a co-website author with H. Green Jr. Many of the photos on his site I took and he and I have been researching the tacmar codes for over 8 years. We have briefed many dozen of military in service -out of service. Most of them have tolds us that the signcode markers are military and FEMA. Since you are in denial and probably never checked out the evidence yourself, which is out there on the roadways for everyone to see, your comments are baseless. We have known people like you to outright lie who are in the military. Of course this information is supposed to classified and lying is the only way to keep it "classified". Let's get honest. We have more knowledge about this information in our little toes than you have in your whole body, unless you are lying too.

Come back with more information than "you are a liar" and I will listen to you.

By the way the, article in the Washington Post is entitled-- "SUBTLE SIGNS WILL SHOW THE WAY" Do you need more help with that?

Carrierwave~

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

Originally posted by Carrierwave
By the way the, article in the Washington Post is entitled-- "SUBTLE SIGNS WILL SHOW THE WAY" Do you need more help with that?

Carrierwave~

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

As I've said, I work with the DOT folks in the sign shops, and I'm telling you for a fact that those signs get your "TACMARS" stickers applied in the sign shop before they're put into inventory. When a sign needs to be installed along a roadside, no one looks for a certain sticker so it will point the way to something - they grab one from the shelf, and install it.

I can also tell you that in all your examples, all the stickers are on the same side of the sign (right side). I've asked for evidence that the signs in the opposite direction have stickers on the left, but no one can produce that.

The reason being? Because the DOT sign shops put ALL the stickers on the right side of the sign, and only if it's obscured in the field by the signpost do they re-apply a sticker in a better location.

And why is it important that the sticker isn't obscured? Because the sticker identifies the sign as State property, and as such, legally needs to be visible in order for the State to prosecute sign theft.

So unless you're saying that the "invading force" will always be driving from the same direction on it's way to an important location, your theory is full of holes.

(As a side note, if you really do believe all of this, just let me know where you see left-sided "TACMARS" stickers, and I'll get those signs replaced. Honestly. Once they're replaced, you can watch to see if some men in black come to re-apply the stickers in the appropriate code. )

As a side note, if you really do believe all of this, just let me know where you see left-sided "TACMARS" stickers, and I'll get those signs replaced. Honestly

I have decided to take you up on your offer. At the above posted location please come and put these markers back where they are supposed to be. I mean you said the DOT puts "ALL" stickers on the lower right corner. After you are finished with these I have a list of about 48 signs at various locations in Northern Michigan that you will need to "fix' also. This aught to keep you busy for a while.


Carrierwave~



[edit on 25-9-2004 by Carrierwave]

Originally posted by Carrierwave
I have photos of dozens of signs with markers on the "left" corner of the sign. This one is just one of the newer ones. Anyone wanting to check the veracity of the above photo with markers on the "LEFT" corner of the signs, the signs are located in Wexford County, Michigan on connector route U.S.131 at the new U.S.131 by-pass corridor just 2 miles south of the Manistee River.

I don't think you get what I'm trying to say ... how about the same signs on the other side of the road? Are the stickers on the back set up in an exact mirror image? They'd have to be if they were indeed pointing to something.

Do you see what I'm asking? You've got to assume that if this is true, then the traffic would be coming from either way. So the stickers would have to be appropriately configured to work from either direction.

So take a photo of the back of the same sign cluster coming from the other direction - all the stickers should be reversed, so they they have the same meaning.