The truth about voter fraud: Debunking the allegations.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

I find it fascinating how the far left is so afraid of having legitimate elections without voter fraud involved. What are they so afraid of? That there really will be only one vote per living legal American?? Simply using google it is very easy to find evidence of massive voter fraud.

Examples -
Voting Machines Can Be Easily Hacked
Insider Attack Against Diebold Voting Machines
Philly.com - Electronic Voting Machines
Remember how the voting machines in Philly were already stuffed with votes before the election had even started?
Do Flaws in Electronic Voting Machines Render American Elections Unreliable?
Voter Fraud in Philly

Wednesday, City Commissioner Al Schmidt unveiled a 27 page report that his office had commissioned entitled “Voting Irregularities in Philadelphia County, 2012 Primary Election.” The report, which focused on cases in 15 of the city’s 1,687 election districts, found cases of double voting, voter impersonation, voting by non-citizens, and 23 cases of people who were unregistered to vote but nonetheless permitted to do so.

Note to the far left ... you all really should understand that our voting process is not secure and ANYONE could engage in voter fraud .. be it the far left or the far right or anyone else with an agenda. Voter ID should be required. The voting machines should be better policed. The counting process should be better policed. etc etc.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'm on the far left.... tabled Deibold several pages ago - and know that Kennedy was the last President elected without machines being involved.

He did it the old fashioned way - with unions and mob support.


See, us silly liberals aren't always naive!

~Heff

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

I find it fascinating how the far left is so afraid of having legitimate elections without voter fraud involved. What are they so afraid of?

The right is crying about voter fraud that never happened and asking for laws that will not protect them. What is the right so afraid of?

The party of smaller government and more freedom is begging the government to infringe upon their freedom to protect them from a crime that is not actually happening.

Purging legitimate voters from the rolls is NOT trying to have a legitimate election.

Originally posted by Hefficide
I'm on the far left....

No kidding! I never would have guessed! (teasing)

tabled Deibold several pages ago -

Deibold ... a problem staring people in the face and yet nothing is done about it. Voter fraud happens ... and there are holes in the system that we can see now and that we can plug. Deibold being one of them.

Originally posted by Endorra
The right is crying about voter fraud that never happened ...

geeeeze ... learn to read .... stuffed voter machines in Philly for one .... :shk:

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by SamLuv
reply to post by bjax9er

 

Buying a beer isnt a right. Its a privileged and so are all the other things you listed. Living in America is all the reason you need to be able to vote. You should be able to walk into your polling place and participate in your government. PERIOD

Gun ownership is a right, too. But you can't carry one (if you're allowed to at all) without ID in most states. Where's the indignation about disenfranchising people there?

/TOA

edit on 26-8-2012 by The Old American because: (no reason given)

says you but according the Statutes of this state, i can carry a firearm OPENLY any time i am camping, fishing, hunting or target shooting ... NO ID necessary.

www.opencarry.org...
Summary
Florida is not a traditional open carry state.
Open Carry is lawful while engaged in, or going directly to and from, lawful Target Shooting, Hunting, Fishing, and Camping expeditions. FL Statutes 790.25(3)(h), (j), and (k)

and seriously ... what DOES this have to do with the Topic of this thread ?????

Don't you know SG? Every single vote for a Democratic candidate is done fraudulently?

100% of all ballots cast for Democrat candidates are made by the dead, women, or even worse MINORITIES!

As every good god fearing Conservative will tell you. No one is capable of voting for a Liberal candidate, because the only people who are allowed to vote are good god fearing white landowners. (it says so right in the constitution that was given to Thomas Jefferson by Jesus himself!) and as we both know, white landowners wouldn't dare vote for a liberal candidate lest they be struck down dead by our vengeful Christian God!

So.

One group is looking at the hard facts and showing how statistically it is more likely to get hit repeatedly by lightning than it would be to find actual voter fraud...hard facts, passionless cold statistical certainty.

the other group =feels= its more because...____...and therefore we taxpayers must shell out millions upon millions in order to enact federal provisions for even more secure secure voting for something that has no evidence showing its a problem and all evidence showing the opposite.


Gotcha.

How bout we let facts rule verses feelings and propaganda. This is not about voter fraud, its all about voter suppression.
The nutty right wing can no longer call themselves patriots when they will gladly dismantle the voting process, the keystone democratic aspect of society, in order to keep their corrupt party in office. They are infiltrators, lead by an australian corporatist and other international corporate interests (a party working for the Sauds)

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Endorra
The right is crying about voter fraud that never happened ...

geeeeze ... learn to read .... stuffed voter machines in Philly for one .... :shk:

edit on 8/26/2012 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote

I can read just fine.
You never posted any voter ID fraud from overstfuffed voter machines in Philly. Mainly because that is impossible. Learn to think and respond, will ya?

Percentage wise/Statistically , voter fraud is not a real problem. At all. Lightning kills more people than voter fraud exists.

People open firing in schools, public places, work place, etc...is a bigger problem ESPECIALLY LATELY. Don't give me that crap either about every major shooting being some conspiracy that's all connected, ARE YOU CRAZY? It's easy as hell to get a gun in the US...TOO EASY. We also are not short on crazy/desperate/angry/sick people in the US. It's not a conspiracy. The only conspiracy in relation to gun control...is the campaign to constantly be shoving the "constitution" down our throats...even though it's out dated, and most civilized countries have already done the same... But you won't see the GOP/Tea Party even come close to passing laws that will help us fix that problem!

Phuck those aholios, they don't give a crap about anything but their power and money. Too bad the sheep haven't figured that out yet.

VOTER FRAUD? Get out of here....lol. Everyone see's its BS. Unless you're a troll or an idiot.

The lack of logic being shown by the GOP as of late, if ever... (not that the dems are much better) is jaw dropping. The whole voter fraud/need for voter ID laws is not as complex as people are trying to make it out to be. SG has done a wonderful job demonstrating why this is a farce and in the least a manipulation to secure a larger voter base than dems have.

The agenda is crystal clear and reeks of desperation and manipulation for if the GOP were truly concerned with voter fraud, there's another solution that doesn't grow government and does not force people into seeking permission to exercise a Right. The solution? More thorough vote counting, tougher screening of votes.

Purchasing an ID is legitimately hard for some people. At the cheapest a State ID is 25$. For some people that may mean going hungry for a week or being short on rent or a bill. There is destitution in the country no matter how much we pretend it isn't so. Being destitute should not preclude a person from voting.

These new voter ID laws have nothing to do with voter fraud.

House Majority Leader Mike Turzai said so himself: "Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done".

Sorry, you can't put the genie back in the bottle once it's been let out, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Not as rampant? My vid shows an investigation into illegals voting illegally in Florida elections. I'm sorry if that does not fit into your idea of what rampant means.

Your video shows some illegals who were able to vote, but how many actual convictions and proven cases of illegals voting are there? Pointing to 3 or 4 illegals having voted in the last few elections does not mean that voter fraud is "rampant". Do you actually have statistics, actual convictions, pointing to a high number of illegals voting?

Ok, here we go... You asked for proof and got proof, but og course, that is not enough proof! If 3 or 4 illegals are voting, it is safe to assume, thousands... perhaps hundreds of thousands are illegally voting.

You are not going to find statistics or convictions... the Democrats prohibit it! The New Black Panthers got away with blatant voter intimidation and the WHOLE FREAKING COUNTRY SAW IT!!! And you are going to prattle on and on about nothing!?

The reaosn no one can point to a littany of fraud is because the Democrats have spent so much time and effort ensuring that it can't be caught. Implement voter IDs and we'll see EXACTLY how many people attempt to commit vote fraud!

Good Lord, there is no cure for stupid!!!

this argument is being framed into nonsense. what exactly defines "voter fraud" does electronic voting rigging fall into the same category

If so, the "only ten cases" whatever nonsense is beyond ridiculous...



If not, you're being directed to focus on something that is essentially a non-issue in comparison to the above.

this is in the video description:

Rep. Tom Feeney (Fmr. Speaker of The House in Florida) employed this man from Oviedo, FL to rig elections and flip them 51% to 49%. Exit polling data was proven to be significantly different than the published results. Rep. Feeney was also the lobbyist for Yang Enterprises, the company who delivered the program.

Originally posted by kozmo
Ok, here we go...

You asked for proof and got proof, but og course, that is not enough proof

Clearly there are still people who are not bothering to actually read the OP.

I'm not asking you to prove that voter fraud "exists", I'm asking you to prove that it is rampant, that voter fraud has changed the outcome of elections, I'm asking for significant cases.

To point to 1 or 2 illegals voting in an election consisting of some 5 million voters at any one time is not evidence of rampant voter fraud. What's more, it doesn't demonstrate the necessity of voter ID laws since those cases were exposed without the effects of those laws.

perhaps hundreds of thousands are illegally voting.

"perhaps" you say? "Possibly" "probably", we've heard it all before, but when an actual investigation is carried out into these allegations of individual voter fraud by the people on the rightwing, we find that the actual numbers of proven cases are very minor. If "hundreds of thousands" of illegals voted, it should not be too hard to bring up 1000 proven cases not should it?

The New Black Panthers got away with blatant voter intimidation

Three guys standing infront of an area where voting was being done, and the police eventually came and dealt with them. There was no evidence what so ever that those three black panther individuals stopped anybody from voting that day, people eventually got to vote after they were dealt with, they were escorted out by authorities.

People like you want to make a big deal about it as an excuse to attack liberals and the voting outcome of 2008, it's pathetic.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by kozmo
Ok, here we go...

You asked for proof and got proof, but og course, that is not enough proof

Clearly there are still people who are not bothering to actually read the OP.

I'm not asking you to prove that voter fraud "exists", I'm asking you to prove that it is rampant, that voter fraud has changed the outcome of elections, I'm asking for significant cases.

I am asking them to prove voter ID fraud does indeed exist at all.
I know there is fraud but the kind battled by these ID laws does not seem to exist. It is funny watching people talk about tally changes and then cry that we need voter ID laws.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


ok first let me commend you for doing your homework. You site some good examples. Im still not convinced though. First things first, if any meaningful fraud is taking place, clearly the winner of the election or those close to the top are involved. Do you think they would out themselfs by proving they themselfs cheated? Doubtful.
Secondly, id like to ask your feelings on this tid bit you seemed to forget about...
Computer Programmer Testifies At Senate Hearing
the fact that it seems to be shrugged off by the senate only strengthens my first point that anyone involved in the big fraud that changes elections are at the top and wont allow themselfs to be proven a fraud. Will you shrug it off too or do you have proof against what this guy claims? if so i would love to hear it. So please, lets hear what you got.

Originally posted by BennyTheBlade
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

ok first let me commend you for doing your homework. You site some good examples. Im still not convinced though. First things first, if any meaningful fraud is taking place, clearly the winner of the election or those close to the top are involved. Do you think they would out themselfs by proving they themselfs cheated? Doubtful.
Secondly, id like to ask your feelings on this tid bit you seemed to forget about...
Computer Programmer Testifies At Senate Hearing
the fact that it seems to be shrugged off by the senate only strengthens my first point that anyone involved in the big fraud that changes elections are at the top and wont allow themselfs to be proven a fraud. Will you shrug it off too or do you have proof against what this guy claims? if so i would love to hear it. So please, lets hear what you got.

Can you explain a few things?
You have no evidence of voter ID fraud and that is why you believe it is happening?
What do voter ID laws do to help with the type of fraud you cited in your link?

reply to post by Endorra


ok fair enough, to begin i never spoke of "voter id fraud" but rather simple "voter fraud" as for my examples of proof, well the link is one that i feel is a great example, that was some of my proof and since the thread is titled "debunking the alligations" i asked if it could be debunked. Ater all that video is a big reason i feel its going on from within.
again i didnt speak of voter id fraud but since you ask what the id laws do to prevent it, its not that it prevents it but if everyone needs an id than any exposed fraud must than be on the inside rather than some random guy using fake names. Perhaps you should reread my post you quoted, you seem lost. Your responce didnt exactly have anything to do with my comment

Look SG... How can one prove that something is "rampant" when so much time, effort and money is put into ensuring that it can't be exposed? One simple act, requiring proof of identity at the polls, could set the record straight once and for all. Yet the Democrats oppose such a simple little thing. It has to make intelligent people wonder why? Especially when the IDs are FREE!?!?

Let's be clear here... Absence of proof does NOT equate to proof of absence - as you would have us all believe! Your premise is flawed from the onset and renders your argument useless. There is neither proof for or against voter fraud to any degree. Logical people can surely surmise that it iexists, but to what extent? We don't know. The point is that such a simple act, verifying identity, can introduce a great deal of integrity into the process. Do you disagree?

reply to post by kozmo

Look SG... How can one prove that something is "rampant" when so much time, effort and money is put into ensuring that it can't be exposed?

Then you should have no problem posting proof that time, money and effort was put into hiding something relating to the Secretary of State's office right?

Some unaccounted for sums of money in their budget? Some time sheets spent on some undisclosed task?

One simple act, requiring proof of identity at the polls, could set the record straight once and for all. Yet the Democrats oppose such a simple little thing. It has to make intelligent people wonder why? Especially when the IDs are FREE!?!?

ID's aren't free.l It's obvious that you haven't been to either the tax collector or DMV for a while. State ID's aren't free, they cost money. Money that some people simply don't have.

Also, can you show me where in the Constitution it allows for this?

Let's be clear here... Absence of proof does NOT equate to proof of absence

It also doesn't prove that voter fraud actually has occurred in the numbers the right would have everyone believe.