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The truth about voter fraud: Debunking the allegations.

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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by SamLuv
 

ya know, i was with ya all the way up to here ...

Living in America is all the reason you need to be able to vote
and to that i have to say NO.
you must be a citizen, not just living here.

IF you are just living here, you are not recognized as a citizen by the government, hence your paticipation is not warranted, necessary or desired.

and that is the catch ... how does one prove they are a citizen with the right to cast a ballot ?

plenty of felons are citizens, however, they are restricted from exercising that right for a reason.
illegals who are present in this country have no right to participate in a government that does not recognize them as citizens.




posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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So there is no voter ID fraud.
Voter ID laws will do nothing to stop the fraud that does exist.
People are in this thread arguing that we need voter ID laws to stop a problem that does not exist?
Republicans are in this thread stating that we must give up some freedom to the government because they are afraid something that has not happened, is happening too much.

Anyone that can explain that to me?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by bjax9er
politico.com

george soros funded left wing propagandists


Debunking their claims should be no problem then, should it?

There are a lot of you in this thread claiming that the OP is wrong but not one of you has done any legwork to show how or where that wrong lies. So you must be lying or stupid. Which is it?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Hefficide
 

thanks
and if i'm not mistaken, isn't Halliburton (or members thereof) tied into those machines somehow ?
atm, i forget the details but i do remember discussing such way back during the "hanging chad" days of old

yep, there it is ... and i'm sure more is out there.

www.thelandesreport.com...
Military defense contractors that also provide election services include: Accenture (a business partner of Halliburton, also a defense contractor), Diebold Voting Systems, Northrop Grumman/Diversified Dynamics/TRW (partners with Science Applications International Corporation, SAIC, also in defense industry), General Dynamics/Computing Devices Canada, Unisys (partners with ES&S), National Semiconductor Corporation, Hart Intercivic, Booz-Allen & Hamilton, and Perot Systems Government Services, Inc..
- snip -

There are no government standards or restrictions on who can sell and service voting machines and systems. Foreigners, convicted criminals, office holders, political candidates, and news media organizations can and do own these companies.

ETA: when you consider the above "conflict of interest" issues, it is no wonder voter apathy rules.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Honor93 because: ETA



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by bjax9er
 
for the majority of those privileges you listed, please point to one that cannot be achieved with a passport and SScard ??
notice, neither of those is a State ID, Driver License or any other State issued form of ID.
in the same sense, should everyone be forced to obtain a passport ??

ETA: to anyone who can answer ... why, in your state is it difficult to register to vote ?
in my State, i can register to vote, online ... see for yourself ... election.dos.state.fl.us...
many states have registrations available at the post office, by mail and in some cases, caseworkers for the State will offer to register home-bound citizens.
so, since i'm not looking up all the others ... for those who claim registering is too difficult, why ?
edit on 25-8-2012 by Honor93 because: ETA



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by calnorak

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by calnorak

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Of course voter fraud is rampant. The people who are "members" of the tea party have been involved in politics for years and they were the ones committing the fraud. They know first hand that it exists because they were the ones doing it.


LOL. Cough up some names, make sure its every member of the TEA party with evidence and I will believe your blanket statement.


I don't really care if you believe it or not, I believe it because I saw it happen. My belief is really all that matters to me, your belief doesn't mount to a hill of beans as far as I'm concerned.


Of course not, I asked for proof or evidence and you ignore it. It happens a lot, don't worry though I do it too sometimes. I still can't prove God exists but I still believe he does. I also believe voter fraud exists, but to say that the tea party are voter fraudsters, I would need proof.


Well, as soon as you find a way to link one mind to another and are able to experience what I have seen and lived through, that's not going to happen because I'm not going to dig through tons and tons of data going through several generations just to show you what is blatantly obvious only because you "want me to".
As I said, I really don't care if you believe it or not, that doesn't change whether it's true or not.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 
SG, you are aware that i'm against the voter ID laws, correct ?
ok, now that that's clear ...


hmm yea I don't have a problem with them provided that voters are not charged just to get these new ID's, and provided these laws do not favour one segment of the population over another. I cannot imagine how people can function without I.D's, but they do, and it should not be a requirement for them to use their money to purchase.


voter fraud is rampant enough that something should be done,


This is your personal opinion. Voter fraud is rare and I demonstrated this in my OP. Considering that many of these cases are well below 100 convictions every few years, and considering that we have more than 100 million people participating in elections on every 1-2 years, the numbers are very low. Texas alone for example could only account for 57 cases since 2002, they have 15 million voters who participate in elections every 2-4 years.

Voter fraud at the administrative level? I have not looked into this aspect of voter fraud, my OP rather focused on individual voter fraud. This is something I'd probably have to read up on in the near future.


, however, my concerns lie with the massive fraud consistently identified, reported and dismissed by those responsible for prosecuting the offenders.

i wish we'd focus on repairing/addressing VOTE fraud rather voter fraud

for those who would like to know more ... read this ...whatreallyhappened.com.../


I read your article, it makes no reference to actual cases of proven voter fraud, rather it is just an opinion piece.

I'm not saying that voter fraud by nature isn't a problem, I'm not saying that it does not exist, I'm saying that it is very rare.


In 1998, almost 20,000 fraudulent voter registrations were discovered on the voting rolls, but were allowed to remain on the excuse that their removal in time for the election would cost too much!


This is someting I'd like to read up on. Do you have a source?



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by bjax9er
your sources are all left wing shills.

try again.


says the poster with a classic symbol of betrayal as his avatar...



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by SamLuv
reply to post by bjax9er
 


Buying a beer isnt a right. Its a privileged and so are all the other things you listed. Living in America is all the reason you need to be able to vote. You should be able to walk into your polling place and participate in your government. PERIOD


So you say any person in America can walk into a voting booth and place his "vote"? Even people that are not citizens?

That would, indeed be interesting.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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It's pretty much an accepted fact that there were many dead voters in Kennedy's 1960 victory mostly in Chicago, is where it's verified. A person whom many ATSers remember as the last decent president. I for one don't think that things like that have lessened in the last 40 years. Don't care too much about the 2012 election. But just saying voter fraud probably doe happen quite a bit.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by flyingdutchman2112
It's pretty much an accepted fact that there were many dead voters in Kennedy's 1960 victory mostly in Chicago, is where it's verified.


If you cant convince then with brillance, Dazzle then with bulI#e.

You my friend need to take a class on rhetorical argument and if you have then you need to take it again because you failed...I don't care what your teacher said...
edit on 26-8-2012 by Yeats because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 

IF the concept of "photo ID" wasn't promoted so heavily, i might agree.
however, of the laws passed, everything from official mail to a utility bill is accepted.
so really, where is the photo or the ID part of it ??

Are any of you folks familiar with the provisions of the "Motor Voter" legislation ??
perhaps you should be before making such comments as ... 'you have to show photo ID to register' ...
cause that's an outright lie.

IF the point of the recent ID law is to visually identify/verify the "registered voter", how can that be accomplished without an 'image' to compare ?


it should not be a requirement for them to use their money to purchase.
totally agree as the 15th Amendment guarantees.

yes, that was my stated opinion ... is there a point to your observation or declaration ?

well apparently, i don't believe in "acceptable amount of fraud" and am saddened to hear that you do.

fraud is fraud and i'd prefer ALL of it be addressed and prosecuted to the fullest extent of our desire. but, we all entertain some fantasies, don't we ??

uhem, i've been around for a few more elections than those of the last 2 presidential cycles.
any chance you'd care to comment on the endurance of the fraud that does exist ??
in your mind, does the cummulative effect elevate it to the level of rampant ??

it would be wise if you did ... along with the intermittent conflict of interests running the whole shebang.


This is someting I'd like to read up on. Do you have a source?
not sure which ones you find "acceptable" so here's a few.
as for the specifics of 1998, nope, not on hand ... feel free to search the info at your leisure.
www.voteguards.org...
www.voteguards.org...
(the "States Under Attack" link is pretty informative too)

www.therightplanet.com...
[2012 - Looks like I’m Not Alone In Getting Fraudulent Voter Registration Documents From Liberal Group]

www.sonorannews.com...

for those who aren't familiar with Motor Voter, you might want to start here ...

www.fed-soc.org...
Motor Voter made it illegal for states to require an individual to show identification prior to registering to vote and mandated that states allow mail-in registration. This made it possible for individuals who are not citizens to register and there is no mechanism in place to prevent false registrations. Studies done of voter registration rolls by independent groups have found them full of duplicate names, erroneous entries such as "God," household pets, noncitizens, and even, as reported by CBS' Sixty Minutes, the crew of the Starship Enterprise.
- snip -

The registration of noncitizens is another concern. The investigation into the Dornan-Sanchez Congressional race in California found numerous noncitizens and illegal aliens who had not only registered to vote, but had actually voted. Ten percent of a random sample of 3,000 new voters registered in California's 39th Assembly district that was checked by an independent election group contained phony addresses and many registrants who admitted they were not U.S. citizens. However, both the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Social Security Administration refuse to cooperate with state election officials to do routine checks of registrations to insure that the individuals registering are U.S. citizens. The Wall Street Journal highlighted a U.S. Justice Department directive last year that constrained election officials from even inquiring about a registrant's citizenship status. When states are not allowed to check someone's identification or citizenship before allowing them to register to vote and federal agencies will not check registrants to confirm that they are U.S. citizens, ineligible voters will continue to register and will stay on the voter registration lists, increasing the likelihood of fraud.
- snip -

Motor Voter also severely restricted the ability of states to remove the names of ineligible voters from the voter registration lists. As a result, the percentage of ineligible voters that are registered has steadily increased, creating a source pool for someone who wants to steal an election by generating fraudulent votes. Experts believe that anywhere from 10-20% of registrants are ineligible, unqualified, or bogus voters.
outta space ... continued next post.


edit on 26-8-2012 by Honor93 because: format



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 

continued from previous post ... more info from last link posted

www.fed-soc.org...
Now, several states are considering moving elections into cyberspace. Internet voting is being studied by the states of Washington, California and Florida and the Pentagon wants to test such a system for its overseas military personnel. As detailed in a recent study done by the Voting Integrity Project, Internet voting poses serious security risks because of the current state of the technology and the threat of wholesale theft of elections and interference by hackers or terrorists. Additionally, even a perfectly secure Internet voting system could not guarantee a fraud-free election given the corruption of the registration process and the ability of individuals to register without showing any identification.

* Hans A. von Spakovsky is an attorney and government affairs consultant. He is on the National Advisory Board of the Voting Integrity Project, the Executive Director of the Voting Integrity Project Legislative Alliance, and a member of the Atlanta branch of the Federalist Society.
good enough source ??

cps-news.com...
[don't skip the cartoon linked by "these" at the bottom of the page
]

since i cannot open pdfs on this machine, i cannot quote this info but feel free to do so.
www.ballot-access.org...

need more ?



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
need more ?



No this is more than enough, I'm reading up on some of your links now, thanks.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Honor93
need more ?



No this is more than enough, I'm reading up on some of your links now, thanks.
you're welcome and pleeeez consider this ... i am not pointing fingers cause there are a lot of countries across the pond ... but, what IF ppl there [who are well aware of Motor Voter provisions here] took full advantage of the system WE rely upon ??

Since there are NO mechanisms to identify fraudulent registrations, how would we ever know in a manner for it to NOT effect election outcomes ??

Do you really think that if 305,000,000 million ballots were cast (not mathematically possible mind you) that we would EVER find out about it ?? do ya really



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by Yeats
 
do you have anything worthwhile to contribute to this conversation ??
or at least something that addresses the Topic ??
how 'bout some "truth" to debunk the allegations of voter fraud ??



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by Yeats
 


YOU are muddying up my words. I said you should be able to walk into your polling location to vote.. If you are here illegally, you wouldnt have a polling place to vote in. And illegal voting is not what I am advocating. I am saying, solving this small problem with this solution specifically, creates a worse problem.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by SamLuv
reply to post by bjax9er
 


Buying a beer isnt a right. Its a privileged and so are all the other things you listed. Living in America is all the reason you need to be able to vote. You should be able to walk into your polling place and participate in your government. PERIOD


Gun ownership is a right, too. But you can't carry one (if you're allowed to at all) without ID in most states. Where's the indignation about disenfranchising people there?

/TOA
edit on 26-8-2012 by The Old American because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


Apples and oranges my friend.

We are talking about the right to purchase a gun, vs. The right to participate in your government. I see your point, that these are two rights, both protected under the constitution etc. However, you could easily say that needing an ID disenfranchises people who could otherwise purchase a firearm. The argument is still valid, its just not the same.

I want every American to cast a vote, even if its directly against my own personal views because I respect their right to participation. I dont think there needs to be intervention when only 1% of the population is participating.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by SamLuv
reply to post by The Old American
 


Apples and oranges my friend.

We are talking about the right to purchase a gun, vs. The right to participate in your government. I see your point, that these are two rights, both protected under the constitution etc. However, you could easily say that needing an ID disenfranchises people who could otherwise purchase a firearm. The argument is still valid, its just not the same.

I want every American to cast a vote, even if its directly against my own personal views because I respect their right to participation. I dont think there needs to be intervention when only 1% of the population is participating.


It is only apples to oranges to those that don't want to talk about rights. I didn't say "purchase". I said "carry", in other words "keep and bear". The argument is that voting is a right, and you shouldn't have to have ID for it because it infringes on a person's rights. Well, "keeping and bearing arms" is a right, too, but there's no righteous indignation here, or anywhere for that matter, about being required to carry ID for the right to carry a weapon.

The two are linked, as they are both about the rights of a citizen being disenfranchised.

/TOA







 
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