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The truth about voter fraud: Debunking the allegations.

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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Tea partiers and other GOP sympathizers are claiming that voter fraud is rampant and that they hold legitimate concerns about the fairness of elections. They've used voter fraud as a way to implement their voter ID laws as well as limiting voting hours except for certain segments of the population. The question is, just how common is voter fraud? How many cases of proven voter fraud is there out there? Let's look at the few cases out there:

Dead voters:

In Georgia in 2000, 5,412 votes were alleged to have been cast by deceased voters, upon investigation it turned out that it was an error, no fraudulent votes were found.

In Michigan in 2005, 132 votes were alleged to have been cast by deceased voters, only 8 cases were revealed as substantiated fraud.

In New Jersey in 2004, 4,755 deceased voters were alleged to have cast a ballot. In the end upon investigation it turned out to be a flaw on those managing the voters list.

In New York in 2002 and 2004, 2,600 deceased voters were alleged to have cast a ballot, again based on a match of voter rolls to death lists, there turned out to be no voter fraud in the end, upon investigation.
www.truthaboutfraud.org...

Allegations of voter fraud in the Colorado 2010 midterm elections:

In 2010, Colorado Secretary of State, Scott Gessler (Republican) claimed that 5000 illegal immigrants or ineligible voters may have voted in those State elections. In the end Gessler could only be certain that 106 individuals, around 2% of his initial 5,000 estimate, who could be accounted for possible fraudulent voter activity. 106 possible cases of voter fraud is still alot, however to this day Gesslers investigation into actual proven cases of voter fraud back in 2010 is still inconclusive, so far we're not aware of any proven cases since his initial claim of 5,000 cases:
www.aclu.org...

Convictions of voter fraud in Texas:

With more than 18 million people of voting age, 15 million of whom participated in the 2010 midterms, Texas has the second highest population of eligible voters in the United States. Despite this number, Texas State attorney general, Greg Abbott ,only reported around 57 convictions of voter fraud since 2002. Yet even that 57 conviction number has been found to be blown out of proportion as reported by politifact:


Only two cases are described as “voter impersonation” on the list.


Turns out 57 convictions is not accurate at all considering that this figure included 10 pre-trail diversions, 2 acquittals and 4 dismissals.
www.politifact.com...

The 1982 Illinois Governors race:

A Grand Jury along with Illinios Attorney Dan Kebb had estimated that around 100,000 votes were fraudulent during the 1982 governors race, yet only 58 proven cases of voter fraud were found, probably the largest case to date in the last 30 years.
articles.chicagotribune.com...

Between the year 2000-2010:

649 million votes cast in general elections

47,000 UFO sightings

441 Americans killed by lightning

13 credible cases of in-person voter impersonation between 2002-2005

Between 2007-2012, there have thus far only been 86 proven cases, convictions, of voter fraud at the Federal level:
www.propublica.org...

www.nytimes.com...

Professor Rick Hasen of UC-Irvine states the obvious on the matter of voter fraud and voter ID laws:


There are “very few documented cases,” said UC-Irvine professor and election law specialist Rick Hasen. “When you do see election fraud, it invariably involves election officials taking steps to change election results or it involves absentee ballots which voter ID laws can’t prevent,” he said.


Personally I don't see much wrong with asking people to provide I.D to vote provided this requirement doesn't discrimminate or favour one group over others (unfortunately many State I.D laws do this) and provided government officials are willing to pay for those without I.D. That being said, to claim the agenda behind these I.D laws are legitimate, pure, non-partisan, is false. Voter fraud is not rampant, proven cases of voter fraud are rare, proven cases of voter impersonation are far more rare, most of the allegations of voter fraud turn out to be blown out of proportion and politically motivated. There's no real justification for restricting the voting process at all. Voter fraud does exist, but that doesn't automatically mean it's rampant in our election process.

I invite any other ATSers present other proven cases of voter fraud, having researched this matter thoroughly I am yet to come across a significant case in the last 10 or so years.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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Voter fraud is not rampant, proven cases of voter fraud are rare, proven cases of voter impersonation are far more rare, there's no real justification for restricting the voting process at all. Voter fraud does exist, but that doesn't automatically mean it's rampant in our election process.


Just because something isn't enforced, policed or known to be doesn't mean it doesn't happen either. That's like saying most politicians aren't corrupt because they never get caught, and even then... They sometimes still do. The position however breeds corruption, so I wouldn't put the possibility of voter fraud into a category of a rare occurrence.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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your sources are all left wing shills.

try again.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by boncho
Just because something isn't enforced, policed or known to be doesn't mean it doesn't happen either.


You assume that our voting laws are not protected and enforced, because this is what you choose to believe from the fear mongerers out there. There's no evidence to suggest that there is a failure to enforce voter laws, there's not even any significant evidence to suggest that voter I.D laws do anything at all to curb the few cases of voter fraud in anycase. Voter impersonation is one of the far lesser forms of voter fraud that tend to occur because it is not as effective as other forms of voter fraud.


so I wouldn't put the possibility of voter fraud into a category of a rare occurrence.


Unless you have actual proof that there is rampant voter fraud going on, you have nothing but your personal opinions. The statistics speak for themselves, merely claiming that there is rampant voter fraud doesn't make this so.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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I don't care what reason they use, a voter ID is the right way to go. The state, or federal, government should provide it. If someone is poor, or elderly, and can't get to the voter ID picture takin' place because they have no transportation (let's gloss over the question of "How would they get to the voting booth in the first place with no possible means of transportation?")...congratulations! You get a free ride!

As a very fiscally conservative independent voter, I would gladly allow my tax dollars to be used in that manner to protect the integrity of the voting process.

/TOA



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by bjax9er
 


Is this all you have? You dismiss my sources as left wing and that's it? You're just going to ignore the facts? This is very sad, I would have expected a better rebuttal by now.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by bjax9er
 


I see people post propaganda and outright lies from right wing sites all day that are far more biased then the sites above, so you sir can move along with that.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


The only cases of voter fraud I see are the laws being pushed that will make it more difficult for certain demographics to vote.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by bjax9er
your sources are all left wing shills.

try again.


Go get right wing sources and debunk the OP instead of just being an ass.
You all have a case to make and are doing a piss poor job of making it. All in the name of smaller government and more freedom do you cry for the government to step up and remove some of this freedom.

I would love to see what your sources have.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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hmmm have to just post the whole link

www.youtube.com...

Some of these people avoided conviction by saying they didn't know how they got registered

edit on 25-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Hacking Democracy was a good video. I have to admit that with the evidence they taped, I am convinced it happens.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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And what demographics would that be? Dead people. It happens a lot more than people let on. In benton Harbor Michigan 97% nof the citizens voted but only 34% were of voting age. The republicans created the mess and ehr democrats ran with it.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Hello ThirdEyeHorus,

Your link isn't working. Do you have a source, a website perhaps? This isn't about whether voter fraud exists because we all know it does. This is about whether or not it is rampant as many folks such as yourself will make it out to be. Do you have any statistics pointing to a significant rise in voter fraud? Significant cases?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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Of course voter fraud is rampant. The people who are "members" of the tea party have been involved in politics for years and they were the ones committing the fraud. They know first hand that it exists because they were the ones doing it.

....at least that's how it is in the area I live in and everybody knows it. They've even had prison sentences here over it during the last presidential election. People were caught and convicted and perfectly fit the profile of the "average tea party member" now that we're looking back on it.



edit on 25-8-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Hello ThirdEyeHorus,

Your link isn't working. Do you have a source, a website perhaps? This isn't about whether voter fraud exists because we all know it does. This is about whether or not it is rampant as many folks such as yourself will make it out to be. Do you have any statistics pointing to a significant rise in voter fraud? Significant cases?


Not as rampant? My vid shows an investigation into illegals voting illegally in Florida elections. I'm sorry if that does not fit into your idea of what rampant means.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Of course voter fraud is rampant. The people who are "members" of the tea party have been involved in politics for years and they were the ones committing the fraud. They know first hand that it exists because they were the ones doing it.


LOL. Cough up some names, make sure its every member of the TEA party with evidence and I will believe your blanket statement.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Hello ThirdEyeHorus,

Your link isn't working. Do you have a source, a website perhaps? This isn't about whether voter fraud exists because we all know it does. This is about whether or not it is rampant as many folks such as yourself will make it out to be. Do you have any statistics pointing to a significant rise in voter fraud? Significant cases?


The fact that they were caught and not prosecuted shows an even deeper problem.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Completely off the cuff remark with zero anything to back it up. Your remark is entirely based on hatred of the Tea Party.
ACORN, on the other hand, actually had convictions.

The dates on this page are all over the board but some going as far back as 1998

www.rottenacorn.com...

Oh, and people in your area imprisoned for voter fraud "fit the profile"? What profile did these people fit? Let's be specific here, but I think you are just talking.


edit on 25-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Not as rampant? My vid shows an investigation into illegals voting illegally in Florida elections. I'm sorry if that does not fit into your idea of what rampant means.


Your video shows some illegals who were able to vote, but how many actual convictions and proven cases of illegals voting are there? Pointing to 3 or 4 illegals having voted in the last few elections does not mean that voter fraud is "rampant". Do you actually have statistics, actual convictions, pointing to a high number of illegals voting?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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ok, i'll add my thoughts.

if you need an i.d. for every other damn thing in life why not voting?
cigs.
beer.
credit card purchases
car titles
insurance
loans
bank accounts
check cashing
driving
flying
gun purchase
obtaining a birth certificate
applying for a job, unless your an ILLEGAL alien
obtaining taxpayer assistance like, food stamps, s.s., welfare.
healthcare
taking a piss
and the list goes on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on......................

if someone says they don't have i.d.,
they're lying...........

why defend it?

there is no crime, if you don't get caught....




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