Is there somethign wrong with the Empire State Bldg. shooting?

I know everything isn't a conspiracy, but this is a site for discussing such.

I'm having some difficulty piecing this together, so I can use some help if anyone is inclined. My post here will be pretty scattered.

1. The shooter is reported to be 58 years old, yet the pic they produced, (I'm assuming it's his ID for access to the building he worked in and from where he was fired a year ago), he does not look to be a 58 year old man. He also does not look to be 58 in the pics of him laying on the sidewalk. Now the ID pic could be 10 years old, but why would they use an old pic? Employees are usually required to update pics for security IDs.

2. Some pics show him laying on his stomach and some show him on his back. The video shows he falls on to his back. One video shows he was still alive with his arm raised. Why is he on his back with his shirt open and clearly on his back in others? Where is the blood if he was rolled onto his back? He was shot in the chest. There should be a lot of blood from the exit wounds through his back. Doesn't moving the body around disturb the evidence and the crime scene?

3. In the pics he's wearing a light green shirt yet one video capture looks like it was white. I guess the color could be altered by the camera, but green and other colors were picked up in that pic.

4. The shooting took place on 33rd Street. The shooter then walks to 5th Avenue and heads north toward the entrance to the ESB, not only one of the most traveled sidewalks in NYC, but also one of the most patrolled by police and security and one of the most photographed in the world. If he were looking to escape, this doesn't seem logical. One of the articles has a witness state he was "planning suicide by cop." How would this person know that?

6. In one of the videos, the cops that shot him are clearly seen reaching down and touching him. Is this normal police procedure? Not sure what to make of that.

7. He was shot at point blank range. I've never shot anyone or had anyone shoot at me, but from that distance exhibited in the video, how was it possible that two trained shooters fired so many shots and why did so many miss, striking the planter, ricocheting and hitting others nearby? I know the threat they felt and the heat of the moment must come into play, but the number of shots fired does require some answers.

8. Jeffery Johnson was an artist The NY Post had a link to a gallery site that claimed to have his work for sale. No FB page from what I can tell either. Somewhat like the Aurora shooter. I think it's odd that a guy who makes art to sell wouldn't have a social media page or other outlets for his work.

I know this is a scattered, but there seem to be some odd and inconsistent issues. Why was the body of the shooter moved? Why is there very little information on him? I haven't found any information on where he lived?

One other thing, the victim's father, in one interview, said he was a good uncle. I'm trying to locate that article again. Now they're saying he was a father of a son. There have been some inconsistencies in statements from family members in other recent incidences such as the drowning of the woman who worked as a nurse in the hospital where the Aurora victims were taken.

I don't know if there's anything here, but there do appear to be some odd issues.

The pics are in no particular order. I linked to some of the articles I obtained them from. The videos are contained within the articles.

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Dressed to Kill

Shooting shock as fired designer slays foe; video captures gunman's death

Profile of a white-collar murderer

Witnesses tell dramatic story of shooting outside Empire State Building

PHOTOS: A rush hour nightmare

What's wrong with the shooting? I'll tell you what's wrong. Every one of the wounded was injured by the POLICE! What an outstanding demonstration of the training and professionalism of those LEOs!

Originally posted by Montana
What's wrong with the shooting? I'll tell you what's wrong. Every one of the wounded was injured by the POLICE! What an outstanding demonstration of the training and professionalism of those LEOs!

Well yes. I questioned why they fired so many rounds and why it appears they missed at such close range. Certainly needs some answers.

already a thread for this topic

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by shaneslaughta


OP was presenting a different angle than the performance of the LEOs. I sidetracked his thread for which I apologize. Please read the OP and respond to it rather than my bad.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
already a thread for this topic

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's not really the same thing. This is specific to the details of the evidence.

My bad, having seen a multitude of threads on the subject already,
thats what happens when you grow tired and skim.
im sure you can understand. No harm no foul.

reply to post by Bilk22


Not sure which of the forum rules the pics violated. They're in the public domain and part of a news story. I used them to illustrate the discrepancies. Without them, the thread is somewhat limited. Oh well.

reply to post by Bilk22


Can I insert links to the pics? That would help further the discussion.

Originally posted by Montana
What's wrong with the shooting? I'll tell you what's wrong. Every one of the wounded was injured by the POLICE! What an outstanding demonstration of the training and professionalism of those LEOs!

I've lived most of my life in NY until heading down South and the sad truth is that the typical CHILD down in the South is more COMPETENT and SAFER with firearms than the boys in Blue in NY!! SAD thing to say, but its the TRUTH!!!

No WONDER Bloomberg and the other anti-2nd-Ammendmant IDIOTS up there are so pro-gun control. I see why now! Its because they cant even train their own DAMN POLICE to operate a firearm SAFELY in NY!!!!!!!

They are truly a disgrace to our fine men in Blue elsewhere in the country. Jeez!! Just JEEZ!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors

Originally posted by Montana
What's wrong with the shooting? I'll tell you what's wrong. Every one of the wounded was injured by the POLICE! What an outstanding demonstration of the training and professionalism of those LEOs!

I've lived most of my life in NY until heading down South and the sad truth is that CHILDREN down in the South are more COMPETENT and SAFER with firearms than the boys in Blue in NY.

No WONDER Blomberg is so ANTI-gun. They cant even trust their own POLICE force to operate a firearm in NY!!!!!!!

Jeez NYPD!! Just JEEZ!!!!!!!!!

edit on 25-8-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)

It doesn't seem to be a laughing matter, but we agree the number of rounds they expended was unusual or at least excessive. I'm sure seeing the same gun pointed at them that killed another, was part of the reason, but he was so close, missing the target seems somewhat improbable.

One well composed shot is all that's necessary. Spray Moarrrrr?
Totally idiotic. I believe Leos, should have military training.
Don't these guys need to re-certify every so often with their weapon?
In the military you have to re-certify, i believe?

reply to post by shaneslaughta


Is it my imagination or are the majority of these shootings occuring in states that aren't using or have a death penalty??

I haven't gone by the scene yet and may do so later or tomorrow, but I haven't seen any broken windows. Now there were a lot of people hit by "bullet fragments" as described in the various accounts, yet none of those fragments happened to hit large panes of glass too? I wonder if any hit cars and buses that were immediately nearby? I also see some of those that were hit, are actually across from the ESB, across 5th Avenue. That's a pretty good distance away from where the shots were fired.

I believe Leos, should have military training.

lets calm down and relax, the last thing they need is military training, just proper police training will do.
there are already too many vets in the police force, and they bring that battlefield mentallity to the streets. is that what you want?

Originally posted by Bilk22
4. The shooting took place on on 33rd street. The shooter then walks to 5th Avenue and heads north toward the entrance to the ESB, not only one of the most traveled sidewalks in NYC, but also one of the most patrolled by police and security and one of the most photographed in the world. If he were looking to escape, this doesn't seem logical. One of the articles has a witness state he was "planning suicide by cop." How would this person know that?

In Freemasonry the number 33 is the highest degree there is. The master numbers 11, 22, and 33 represent a triangle. A triangle of enlightenment or illumination.

33
11 22

It is interesting that he went North. In Masonic doctrine, North, is designated as the area where darkness, superstition, and ignorance dwells. Albert Pike describes this belief: "To all Masons, the North has immemorially been the place of darkness; of the great lights of the Lodge, none is in the North." [Morals and Dogma, p. 592]

Not trying to say this has got false flag written all over it but, it could be a coincidence.

Originally posted by Bilk22
6. In one of the videos, the cops that shot him are clearly seen reaching down and touching him. Is this normal police procedure? Not sure what to make of that.

I'm not too sure about this. Depends though where the police officer touched him. For all we know, he could've been checking for a pulse just to confirm he was dead or not. But, from several articles I've been reading. Several (not sure of that exact number) shots were fired and hit. Which is kinda odd. If you've shot several bullets into a person, there is absolutely no way they could've survived so checking for a pulse is odd.

Here is a video of the shooting, sorry if I'm violating any rules here. Not sure if I'm allowed to post this video or not, if I'm not, please remove it.

www.liveleak.com...

Originally posted by jazzguy

I believe Leos, should have military training.

lets calm down and relax, the last thing they need is military training, just proper police training will do.
there are already too many vets in the police force, and they bring that battlefield mentallity to the streets. is that what you want?

It's also off topic. Can we keep the discussion to the topic?

With all the "bullet fragments" that were claimed to be responsible for hitting others, shouldn't there be other damage from them as well? Forensics would require that they trace each and every bullet or fragment and mark them. I haven't seen any photos showing other collateral damage to the surroundings.

The guy was fired 1 year ago. Must have had 1 big nest egg to survive in NYC for a year with no income.

58.....doesn't look that old at all.

Originally posted by Pervius
The guy was fired 1 year ago. Must have had 1 big nest egg to survive in NYC for a year with no income.

58.....doesn't look that old at all.

Another article claims he's 53. Neighbors say he was quiet and nice. Isn't that always the case?

As for surviving a year without income in NYC, well the same article said he didn't have a girlfriend and he didn't go out much. But his rent couldn't have been cheap either. He lived on the Upper East Side. No address, but from the photo of the entrance, it looks like a nice building with professional offices on the street level. If here were making money from selling his artwork, the shooting makes even less sense.

reply to post by Bilk22


Has anyone come across info on the shooter's family? I mean this is usually the first place they go - look into their past, family, siblings, etc. Nothing I can find other than a blurb about his mother being Asian and his father American. Nothing more though from what I can tell. Isn't this a bit odd?