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Which is more important in your eyes, "honesty" (Truth) or "compassion" (Love)?

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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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Hypothetically,

I'm in a relationship where there is no trust. Truth is not had.

Does love and and or compassion follow? It can't. It doesn't follow.

Only if I am blinded to the facts can love follow or stay intact.

Just my observation.




posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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it's simply a nonsensical question without a logical answer. you can't have love without truth, or truth without love. truth without love is a lie, as is love without the truth. you just can't separate the two. they must be enjoined.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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Compassion is just a word until you know yourself as all.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


But what makes our "truth" another's 'truth" ? How do you make that determination? If you determine a truth for someone, isn't it really your "truth". We must look within ourselves.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by leolady
 


nah, look outside yourself. what makes a truth universal is...it's universal application
don't know why that's so hard to understand. if it's an objective truth, it's universal. if it's an intersubjective truth, it's at least universal towards the species. subjective truths are just that... your own.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by moniesisfun
 


perhaps i am referring to subjective truth :-) peace



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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To answer your question:

I always appreciate when people love me enough that they are honest enough to tell me I have broccoli in my teeth, or toilet paper stuck to my shoe.

Wouldn't you agree?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by Sulie
 


and when they can do it with a smile, and make you smile and laugh together through it all...

it's the best.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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vote for compassion here. it's the fundamental building block of a society worth living in

lets face it, we all lie everyday, it's just a matter of degree



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Compassionate Honesty is totally viable.

Just as Compassionate Listening is totally viable.

Both working together results in everyone being able to finally find their personal paradise. As well as if/when they change to be able to seek another.

Veiling our true feelings traps ourselves and others.

Namaste.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 



Originally posted by arpgme
For example, some people hate gays. They admit they don't like them, but wouldn't a person who "pretends" to like gays be even worse?


"Pretending to like gays" is not compassion... It's fake. In a world where everyone were compassionate, people WOULD accept gays, not just pretend to.


To answer the question, I choose compassion. I think we can have both. I operate my life with both. But if I had to choose, I could choose compassion.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by leolady
reply to post by arpgme
 


But what makes our "truth" another's 'truth" ? How do you make that determination? If you determine a truth for someone, isn't it really your "truth". We must look within ourselves.



There is reality/truth, and then there is your perspective of it (emotions, beliefs, etc). All people share this same reality, there is only one, but people have different beliefs about it which distorts their views of it.

If you look inside yourself, you will only find yourself, reality is outside of you. Whether you believe clouds are marshmallows or not because that makes you feel "good", that doesn't change the fact that they aren't.

I'm not saying there isn't a spiritual world, nor am I saying that imagination and the mind mean nothing, you may believe that the world is flat and lose out on the freedom of exploring the world; there are many false beliefs which wind up enslaving people, keeping them in fear, or hurting them.



Originally posted by syrinx high priest
vote for compassion here. it's the fundamental building block of a society worth living in

lets face it, we all lie everyday, it's just a matter of degree


I don't lie everyday. I don't even speak to people everyday, I like my alone time, and it is very rare that I ever lie. Now, am I saying I don't ever do it? No. I'm just saying that it is very rare that I do lie and it helps me to be more free then remembering all the lies that I may have told many different people and worrying if they'll talk to each other and find out I'm a liar... Too much work...

By the way, some have tried to call me a "liar" because I said I believed one thing and then I said I believe another. It isn't lying, it's called LEARNING and changing your mind.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
For example, some people hate gays. They admit they don't like them, but wouldn't a person who "pretends" to like gays be even worse?


"Pretending to like gays" is not compassion... It's fake. In a world where everyone were compassionate, people WOULD accept gays, not just pretend to.



Pretending to like gays IS compassion. If you don't like something and you are still being nice - that is compassionate considering other people's feelings. Have you ever thought that maybe there is a reason why people are homophobic? Maybe they were indoctrinated and their mind is destroyed and in fear, where is the compassion for such individuals?



edit on 25-8-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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There is reality/truth, and then there is your perspective of it (emotions, beliefs, etc). All people share this same reality, there is only one, but people have different beliefs about it which distorts their views of it. If you look inside yourself, you will only find yourself, reality is outside of you. Whether you believe clouds are marshmallows or not because that makes you feel "good", that doesn't change the fact that they aren't. I'm not saying there isn't a spiritual world, nor am I saying that imagination and the mind mean nothing, you may believe that the world is flat and lose out on the freedom of exploring the world; there are many false beliefs which wind up enslaving people, keeping them in fear, or hurting them.
reply to post by arpgme
 


Yes we do need to look outside ourselves to grow and see other "truths" or else we would never experience. I guess I believe we shouldn't try to sway another's "truth" for only they can sway their own "truth". If you find you can not come to terms with someone elses idea or "truth" then you can choose to walk away with acceptance of that. Anyways im probably off topic here.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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Explanation: S&F!

I'd prefer the ENTIRE SET of brutal honest and possibly even savage facts to be available to anybody anywhere and anywhen.

Once I know what is, then I can act within that realm to a high level of effciency and do the least amount of harm.

Truth without love is just cold! After that I can try build a fire ok!

Love without truth does NOT exist as a logical premise ... because love is a result and not a method to get that result.

Personal Disclosure: In world of preknowing the full facts one may utilize ones mirror neurons and instantly know the other person entirely and ones theory of mind would be PERFECT and therefor lies could no longer exist and corruption would vanish automatically.

VS.

In a world of preloving everything regardless, one wouldn't do anything at all because everything would be already PERFECT and no understanding is required beyond that and from where I am now that's a dull existence.

The Truth interferes with corruption and actively prevents its continued existence.

Where as Love allows corruption and actively promotes its continued existence.


edit on 25-8-2012 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to fix spelling.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by leolady
 


But why call it truth? It is just a perspective of reality....

And yes, I totally agree that we should not force our perspectives of reality onto others, but if they ask us a question, we shouldn't just go along with their perspective to be "nice" instead just be honest and tell them that you look at things in a different way...

When I say stay true to yourself - I mean be honest - be aware of what YOU belief and feel, I'm not saying that somehow you can override reality.

Maybe sometimes there are small "glitches" in the matrix of this reality, but there are still laws in place that we must obey or face consequence (such as gravity - believing you can jump off a building and fly)


reply to post by OmegaLogos
 





Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Explanation: S&F!

I'd prefer the ENTIRE SET of brutal honest and possibly even savage facts to be available to anybody anywhere and anywhen.

Once I know what is, then I can act within that realm to a high level of effciency and do the least amount of harm.

Truth without love is just cold! After that I can try build a fire ok!


Here is an interesting way to look at it. Maybe if we were all honest all the time, we wouldn't have to use "rules" of ethics/kindness, we'll know exactly how the person wishes to be treated when we talk with them, which "rules" are needed and which they don't actually care about - and we can avoid a lot of "awkward" situations.


Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Love without truth does NOT exist as a logical premise ... because love is a result and not a method to get that result.


And that love/understanding/compassion can only arise if we are honest with each other and have a real heart to heart conversation; not trying to "change" another but just talking with them about why we believe as we do and letting them choose what they wish to believe.





Originally posted by OmegaLogos
In world of preknowing the full facts one may utilize ones mirror neurons and instantly know the other person entirely and ones theory of mind would be PERFECT and therefor lies could no longer exist and corruption would vanish automatically.

VS.

In a world of preloving everything regardless, one wouldn't do anything at all because everything would be already PERFECT and no understanding is required beyond that and from where I am now that's a dull existence.


I agree completely, if you we just try to be "loving" all the time with smiles on our faces, we'll be put into situations that we truly do not wish to be in and people can take advantage of this kindness. With truth, everyone is honest and people will know who they have a connection with and who they don't - who wants to be around them and who doesn't want to be bother.

From being completely honest, maybe we can find harmony and actually be around people who TRULY like us for who we are, not just trying to "fit" into some group.
edit on 25-8-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 






we shouldn't just go along with their perspective to be "nice" instead just be honest and tell them that you look at things in a different way...


Well I do agree with this... I'm not saying that I would not be honest with someone just for the sake of being nice. I would just try to be gentle.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by leolady
 


Yea, I agree, be gentle. In fact, this isn't just kindness it is also logical. Who would be mean-spirited to someone who doesn't understand something instead of gently explaining, that is counter productive.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by arpgme
 



I see it like this: If you are completely honest with yourself you will realize that you are human and have feelings and therefore so do others which will(should, unless you're a sociopath) give rise to compassion. In reality there shouldn't be one without the other. Compassion would stay the cold hand of brutal honesty, but that doesn't mean you should be untruthful.



I agree with this statement. I think many such questions can be asked. The limitations of human language mixed with the lack of understanding of the basic human condition will create a plethora of responses all of which may on some level be considered correct. However the fact that such a question has to be proposed is an indicator of how far we as a society and a species have moved away from understanding the truth of human nature.

"The temperament of a blade is decided by how hot it was made and how long it took to cool it."
The balancing of truth with compassion can also decide the effectiveness of an action.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Dear arpgme,

You response to me is to both me and another, I cannot respond for others.



And what if a person doesn't care about anyone and didn't want to be changed?


The part you asked me I will respond to. If you don't care about anyone and wish to become stasis, unchanged, to never learn, to never grow, then you choose hell. If all you care about is yourself then in the end, it is all you have, a choice, eternal solitary confinement. Separation from God, separation from love. A choice, not a punishment. You mistakenly think you are putting up tricky questions, they are not and prove nothing, you are actually making choices, you are not tricking believers, you are choosing for yourself by creating justifications for your own selfishness. Why? Is it more important to be right or to make things better? What is your goal for life, to get the cookies of this world or to make the world better. You can make the world better but it means taking short term losses for the benefit of others at the risk of your own temporary loss. That is what turning the other cheek means.

I have had four hours sleep, I was woken up by someone and decided to check my messages. What are you looking for, what answer do you want? What do you want your life to mean, selfishness or helping others and it costing you happiness in the short term? Pick it, live it and accept that you chose it. I detest whiners. My brother made short term choices; but, he has the courage to live with the consequences and not complain. I respect that.

Here is wisdom. The answer to the question of how we should live our life does not change based on whether there is or is not a God. The answer is who do you want to be and what do want your life to mean. It is that simple, your life will effect others, do you care? If you cared, you would not ask such a foolish question, you would ask how you could help others;; but, you did not. You are looking for loopholes to allow you to be selfish and justify it. You can do that; but, it is still just a justification for selfishness.

How bout this, do you willingly take responsibility for your decisions and how they effect others? If your answer is that you would have decided differently if you knew there were consequences then you lose anyways, your heart is wrong, you didn't care about others. The bible says that many will come saying they knew him (not a name and not a ritual, the heart of Christ, love for others and forgiveness) and he will say he never knew them because they didn't see him when they saw others in need and did not help.

I know a gay preacher, he was beaten with baseball bats for preaching to gays. I am straight and conservative; but, I respect truth and love and he has both and has put it on the line. I respect him. He detests ATS because of the stupidity and bad theology from all sides, he asks me why I waste my time on it. I tell him, the truth is a virus, if one gets it then all can, not will, can. You matter and your choices define you, you need there to be eternity or God for that to be true. Define yourself and live with who you are. Don't waste your time blaming God or others, tell the truth, you choose who you are. Choose.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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1st Corinthians verse 13...
"These three things remain, faith, hope and love, the greatest of these is love."
Without love, every action, or thought is meaningless...



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