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Which is more important in your eyes, "honesty" (Truth) or "compassion" (Love)?

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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


If you judge, you will be judged.
Your OP is about hating gays. Really - who cares what anyone else is doing? Mend your own suffering.
When you mend your suffering you will not mind what anyone else is doing.
Don't be a dictator.
Let it be.

edit on 25-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:28 AM
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The middleway is the way from my view.

You should be questioning your own thruth and saying thruths to people who do not want to hear them is a waste of time. You can't be to investedly empathetic towards people who do not want to evolve and change. If they choose not to listen that is their fault but unfortantly we all have to pay for the immaturity of their behaviour.

Give everyone a chance but if they fail walk on to someone else that is ready.

You can only be totaly honest and totaly empathetic with people who both listen and are totaly honest and empathetic back.
edit on 25-8-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by AQuestion
 


So what happens in a situation where something or someone is in your life that you don't want there, does truth over-ride the love and you stay true to yourself and stay away from that thing or person, or does love over-ride and you find a way to love this thing or person and put up with it inside?


Depends on difference in perspective/understanding. If difference is to high keep away or find a common ground where you can interact and keep it on that level. You do not need to connect deeply with everyone. If there is no real gain for you and the other person than why should you sacrifice yourself?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


I cannot 'tell' you the truth. You will have to find it for yourself.
It is hidden in plain sight.

Truth is not an opinion or a belief.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Very esoteric. But unless you can elaborate further then I call it rhetoric.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


'This' is the truth.
Right here and right now is true. What 'this' is cannot be spoken. Words that are spoken are laid upon what is true but the words themselves lie. The words distract you from the truth.
Words veil the truth.

Remove the words (beliefs) and the truth is hidden underneath. Non conceptual awareness.
All there is, is this - but words make believe there is more.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


And what if a person doesn't care about anyone and didn't want to be changed?


reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


You start by saying this:



Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


If you judge, you will be judged.


and then you make these judgments:


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Your OP is about hating gays.


and...


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Don't be a dictator.


This isn't even about gays, this is about being able to express yourself or not expressing yourself for the sake of "compassion".

If people hate gays they have the right to express that, and gay people also have the right to be who they are and to fight for equal rights. That was just an example though.

The real issue is this:

If a person hate another, why should they pretend that they don't? What does it matter to "act" nice if on the inside you are not? Does it matter if you put a smiley face sticker on something or someone you hate while on the inside you are as angry or unhappy as can be?

Even if you don't "think" about it, it is still there sub-consciously.

Now, in my personal life, I feel peace. I don't have any serious problems, and I can't even mention a single person I have a "problem" with currently. I am talking about the concepts here of being honest versus trying to be nice for the sake of compassion.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


'This' is the truth.
Right here and right now is true. What 'this' is cannot be spoken. Words that are spoken are laid upon what is true but the words themselves lie. The words distract you from the truth.
Words veil the truth.


So, the truth as you see it is external to the human condition?

I have practiced Zen meditation in the past, the goal being, as I saw it, to still the mind. That being said, it is a common view amongst Zen Buddhists that when the mind is quiet the truth can be seen or known, some call this enlightenment. Is this what you are talking about?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


'This' is the truth.
Right here and right now is true. What 'this' is cannot be spoken. Words that are spoken are laid upon what is true but the words themselves lie. The words distract you from the truth.
Words veil the truth.


So, the truth as you see it is external to the human condition?

I have practiced Zen meditation in the past, the goal being, as I saw it, to still the mind. That being said, it is a common view amongst Zen Buddhists that when the mind is quiet the truth can be seen or known, some call this enlightenment. Is this what you are talking about?


The human mind speaks words and these words shape 'your' world if you do not realize it. Yes, when the mind is quiet then the image appearing before you is seen with clarity as it is with no labels attached.
The labels decieve. The labels are not truth.

edit on 25-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


If you think it is a good idea to tell every person or group or country that you hate them then you will get hurt.
If you live in a world where you have separated yourself out as the judge of others then you will suffer.

It is only peaceful when you can accept whatever presents itself, even the thought that you don't like something.

edit on 25-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


True compassion means you do not have to 'lie' or put a front on to hide your dislike of someone. Love and compassion means that you see the situation from their point of view, you feel their pain. When you truly love someone you do not judge them as a person so the dilemma does not exist. You do not seek to rid yourself of people you love.

You seem to be confusing political correctness or on the face compassion and the real thing.

You can dislike someone's actions without judging them as a person so you can love them in spite of faults or disagreements. You can not love someone and find them unpleasant to be with. True compassion is accepting someone with their faults and hoping they continue to grow. If someone's actions are not harmful to anyone including their spiritual growth then they have no reason to change that behaviour unless they change their beliefs and it becomes harmful or a problem.

Just my thoughts



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


We label things for a reason.

When we become aware of something a process occurs in our minds, it happens in stages and it happens very quickly. When for example, we see a bicycle, our mind sees the form and shape of the bicycle, our mind tries to identify what we are seeing, this first stage is based in ignorance and fear, if we already know what a bicycle is then we can identify it and a series of associations develop, is it safe, is it alive, can I touch it etc, then memories may arise like having used a bicycle before, or having fallen off one. All this takes place almost instantaneously, and this is why we label things, it is how we navigate through our daily lives.

Where problems can and do arise is when this process happens and in it's latter stages preconceived negative or over optimistic associations are assigned to whatever it is we are regarding. For example "oh look, a dog....nice doggy.....(growl!! snap!!)...ouch...the dog bit me!!!!" Or conversely we have a person who is terrified of every dog they see.

Edit: sorry if I'm going off topic here.




edit on 25-8-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


Humans do not trust their true intelligence, their wordless instant seeing and knowing. They have been given symbols and words and they trust them more. Seeing and knowing is instantanious and then the mind has to formulate words, it translates what is seen into symbols the mind can undersand and work with - this all takes time.
The word or symbol is not the experience itself. The word water cannot explain water the way putting your hand in it does.
Humans miss this moment because they are working it out and looking at things that are not here - like past or future.
There is only one thing and it is here and now but words make us believe that there is more to worry about.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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Love will always be greater than "a truth" because love will turn bad things into good.


We CAN, for example, lie when our wives say "does this make me look too fat?". Or other scenarios where a lie preserves some thing that the truth will cause great harm in some way and still be doing the right thing on some philosophic level. My Sun Tzu signature at the bottom being another example.

In fact for my fellow Christians, love of God and our fellow man was the most important thing to do to be following the principles intended to demonstrate our understanding of presence here on Earth. Without love there is no hope. With hate their is disaster after disaster that ends in great pain for all in its grasp.
edit on 25-8-2012 by Justoneman because: needed more explanation.

edit on 25-8-2012 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Yes, I agree. This is called delusion. It is a trait that is inherently human, and few free themselves from it. ATS is a superb place to witness this, sadly.




edit on 25-8-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


Humans are just blinded by words. Words appear presently just as all that is arising, it is arising in presence. When the words are given importance they become monsters that control the spirit.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


Humans are just blinded by words. Words appear presently just as all that is arising, it is arising in presence. When the words are given importance they become monsters that control the spirit.

and therefore love is greater.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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Like most things in life this is not a cut and dry / black and white question or choice. For true happiness one needs a balance and so we really need both truth and compassion. The truth can really hurt sometimes but if it is spoken with a good dollop of compassion the blow can be softened and instead of coming across as a criticism it could be viewed as constructive criticism and create improvement without the pain. In some cases it is kinder and more encouraging just to be a little economical with the truth, e.g. a child draws a picture or makes a construction from paper or play-doh. Their skills in this area are very limited as they are just learning. When they look at you and are all pleased with their efforts, which look nothing like that which they are meant to be, we don't tell them that it is rubbish, we tell them how wonderful it is and nurture their artistic expression knowing that at some point it will improve and they become great artists, or they see on their own that artistic ability is not their strong point and develop some other skill instead.
I think a world of good judgement on when to say something, when to keep your mouth shut and when to be honest is the key.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by Justoneman

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


Humans are just blinded by words. Words appear presently just as all that is arising, it is arising in presence. When the words are given importance they become monsters that control the spirit.

and therefore love is greater.


When the words are gone and there is just seeing 'love' is known.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 


If you think it is a good idea to tell every person or group or country that you hate them then you will get hurt.
If you live in a world where you have separated yourself out as the judge of others then you will suffer.


Imagine if you would have given slaves this advice? Sometimes people need to stand up for the truth so that they can be more free even if it sometimes mean facing consequences. If no one stood up for truth, we wouldn't know anything, many things would stay hidden in the dark without our knowledge.

Whether you like it or not, you are already a judge. If you are in pain, what is your first instinct? To relieve it. If you put your hand in fire and it burns, you take the hand out quickly. You already have preferences such as pleasure rather than pain, but some deny this.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme
 

It is only peaceful when you can accept whatever presents itself, even the thought that you don't like something.

edit on 25-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


So if I am hungry, I should just let the thought that "I don't like the stomach pains" to pass? I should not ACT on my DESIRE to relieve the hunger by eating?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by 3Dplus
Someone once told me:
Love without honesty is brutal
Honesty without love is fatal.
It may take a second, but it does make sense.


I like your quote!



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