Which is more important in your eyes, "honesty" (Truth) or "compassion" (Love)?

Would you prefer a world where everyone was honest with themselves and others, a completely open world where everyone being can walk in full truth of their own nature, or...


Would you prefer a world where everyone was compassionate always trying to do what others want so that they can stay happy and not giving negative opinions in order not to "offend" others?


Sometimes I hear people talking and one would say "you are being so negative" and then they'll respond "I'm just trying to help you by telling you the truth!".

If we live in a world of love, don't you think that people will turn a "blind eye" to things that they dislike, trying to find a way to "love" it or not "offend"?


For example, some people hate gays. They admit they don't like them, but wouldn't a person who "pretends" to like gays be even worse? A least the first person was honest but the second was just a fake person...

Do we really want to live in a world of where people mask their true identity as unique humans and give out compliments and smiles for the sake of "love" rather than being their own unique individuals and free?

I know sometimes it will lead to "conflict" and "pain" but is that really any worse than a world where you can not really express yourself?

What do you think about this?

reply to post by arpgme


Dear arpgme,

It is such a non-question. Which is more important, living without water or living without air? That is your question. Would you rather live in a world of lies or a world with no love? The Nazis played that game, they would ask mother which of their children should be killed, neither is the answer. Both is also the answer. When presented with two equally distasteful answers, the answer is that I will not pick, you pick.

reply to post by AQuestion


So what happens in a situation where something or someone is in your life that you don't want there, does truth over-ride the love and you stay true to yourself and stay away from that thing or person, or does love over-ride and you find a way to love this thing or person and put up with it inside?

Someone once told me:
Love without honesty is brutal
Honesty without love is fatal.
It may take a second, but it does make sense.

reply to post by arpgme


Your question reminds me of that Ricky Gervais film, he lives in a world where nobody can tell lies, 'The Invention Of Lying'.

I see it like this: If you are completely honest with yourself you will realize that you are human and have feelings and therefore so do others which will(should, unless you're a sociopath) give rise to compassion. In reality there shouldn't be one without the other. Compassion would stay the cold hand of brutal honesty, but that doesn't mean you should be untruthful.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by AQuestion

 

So what happens in a situation where something or someone is in your life that you don't want there, does truth over-ride the love and you stay true to yourself and stay away from that thing or person, or does love over-ride and you find a way to love this thing or person and put up with it inside?

Dear arpgme,

The question is again fixed and makes too presuppositions. Why are you with someone that you don't want in your life, are a you a masochist? Why should I not love everyone, is that really the issue or should it be, who do I wish to spend my time with? I love all my children; but, I spend time with them differently. We do different things, they have different lives. I can love everyone; but, have common interests with some and not others. I might enjoy their company more; but, I do not have to hate others, I don't even have to dislike them. I am a Christian and have one particular friend who is a Satanist, he was homeless and I took him in, I did not try and convert him, that was not our agreement. He saw someone threaten my life and he was going to harm the person with a knife, I stopped him. Truth and love, can I love someone that I believe is wrong, yep. Now here is a better question, can you?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by AQuestion

 

So what happens in a situation where something or someone is in your life that you don't want there, does truth over-ride the love and you stay true to yourself and stay away from that thing or person, or does love over-ride and you find a way to love this thing or person and put up with it inside?

You must remember that you too are entitled to live your life freely, if something or someone is hindering that then you need to remember that you deserve compassion also. Having compassion helps you make your decisions and take action whilst keeping the feelings of others in mind, it does not mean you should lie to yourself and live in denial.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Dear seabhac-ritual,

You responded to my post; but, only to his comments. Interesting.

You ask a real intriguing question. I think both answers are right, depending on who is answering.

I think people in general want a world of Compassion and Love because being on the receiving end of open and blunt honesty across the board is something I doubt many would want to deal with for more than a short period of time. I think we all, to varying degrees, build little delusions around us. It's all small things. How our weight looks or skin complexion or personality. People around us tend to feed in and support them as much as we each do that for others we care about and of course, for ourselves.

Losing all that to honesty just wouldn't work well for most, I'm thinking.

Personally, I would prefer a world with total honesty and love can come after that and build on it...if possible. If forced to choose, honesty. It'd be rough at first for the above reasons...but after adapting to the honest reality I think knowing exactly where I stand with everyone else and how that dynamic works among everyone around me would make life far simpler and easier.

Originally posted by AQuestion
can I love someone that I believe is wrong, yep. Now here is a better question, can you?

So when you say "love" you are just talking about the physical wellbeing? There is a lot to a person and that includes their feelings, beliefs, and perspectives about the world, do you love Satanism too? Do you love that he is a Satanist? Or do you just care for his wellbeing and care for him as a friend? That "Satanist" part of him, you will always hate since you are a Christian, but you will probably still love him as a friend - him as a whole person.

If I hate "lies", then I hate to hate "liars" to some extent, maybe not their entire being, but a least the part of them that lies... (this is just an example), it is not full love.

reply to post by arpgme


I find that being truthful to people is the best way I show that I love them.

Of course it depends upon the way you phrase it.

Being 'honest' is just 'your opinion'.
Compassion is to not force 'your opinion' on others but to embrace diversity instead.

'Your' opinion is not truth.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Being 'honest' is just 'your opinion'.
Compassion is to not force 'your opinion' on others but to embrace diversity instead.

'Your' opinion is not truth.

Saying something like "vanilla ice-cream tastes bad" is not a lie because it is actually responding to reality from one's own tastes and emotions; now claiming that something is true because it makes you feel "good" is a whole different thing.

Subjective opinions (responses to emotions) are true.

Objective opinions (rejecting reality for 'what feels good') is false.


Compassion does not embrace diversity, it only embraces compassion...

If a person tells the truth and that makes another unhappy, suddenly they can be labelled as "negative" or "mean" or "in-compassionate" because of it. Compassion only embraces compassion and that is it.

Even if you were to say that compassions brings understanding on both sides and therefore that offended person will understand the pure intention; well, what is the only way that "intention" can be understood? By being "truthful".

reply to post by AQuestion


AQuestion,

Hope you are well, I wasn't ignoring you.

I agree with you, honesty and compassion are not mutually exclusive. In my way of thinking sincerity leads to compassion. People say things like "well I was just being honest" after they have said something hurtful, in truth they have just expressed an opinion without regarding somebody's feelings, and as we know, what is often considered 'the truth' is highly subjective. Also with regards to the OP, I feel that sincerity and compassion must also be directed inwardly, it is not a selfish thing to be aware of your own needs as a human being.

Peace.

reply to post by arpgme


'Your' truth is just an opinion, it is your personal like or dislike (preference).
Vanilla ice cream may taste bad to you but that does not mean the vanilla ice cream tastes bad.

If you live in a world of duality (good/bad, love/hate) then you are suffering. 'Your' honesty will get you into trouble. The 'truth' shall set you free of trouble.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme

 

'Your' truth is just an opinion, it is your personal like or dislike (preference).
Vanilla ice cream may taste bad to you but that does not mean the vanilla ice cream tastes bad.

If you live in a world of duality (good/bad, love/hate) then you are suffering. 'Your' honesty will get you into trouble. The 'truth' shall set you free of trouble.

Tell me, what is the 'truth'?

reply to post by seabhac-rua


I cannot 'tell' you the truth. You will have to find it for yourself.
It is hidden in plain sight.

Truth is not an opinion or a belief.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme

 

'Your' truth is just an opinion, it is your personal like or dislike (preference).

And to deny your preference is to deny the truth of who you are in this physical body. It is forfeiting your human individuality.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme

 

'Your' honesty will get you into trouble. The 'truth' shall set you free of trouble.

Well, if honesty gets people into trouble then whose at fault? The one with the honesty of the one who chooses to suppress truth?

This is like saying thinking of terms of "wet and drink" will get you into trouble, so water should not stay true to its wetness to avoid "trouble" of those who do not like wetness.

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by AQuestion
can I love someone that I believe is wrong, yep. Now here is a better question, can you?

So when you say "love" you are just talking about the physical wellbeing? There is a lot to a person and that includes their feelings, beliefs, and perspectives about the world, do you love Satanism too? Do you love that he is a Satanist? Or do you just care for his wellbeing and care for him as a friend? That "Satanist" part of him, you will always hate since you are a Christian, but you will probably still love him as a friend - him as a whole person.

If I hate "lies", then I hate to hate "liars" to some extent, maybe not their entire being, but a least the part of them that lies... (this is just an example), it is not full love.

edit on 25-8-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

Dear arpgme,

You just refuse to get it. I love him as him, there is no requirement that I hate anyone. He has good in him, he was a foster kid who was abused and found care from satanists, they accepted him so he accepted what they believed. Why should I hate him? He is not evil because he seeks solace, he is not evil because he cannot take any more, he is not evil because he disagrees with me. He has good in him because he cares about others, perfect people, I haven't met one yet.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by AQuestion

 

AQuestion,

Hope you are well, I wasn't ignoring you.

I agree with you, honesty and compassion are not mutually exclusive. In my way of thinking sincerity leads to compassion. People say things like "well I was just being honest" after they have said something hurtful, in truth they have just expressed an opinion without regarding somebody's feelings, and as we know, what is often considered 'the truth' is highly subjective. Also with regards to the OP, I feel that sincerity and compassion must also be directed inwardly, it is not a selfish thing to be aware of your own needs as a human being.

Peace.

edit on 25-8-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

Dear seabhac-rua,

I did not think you were avoiding me, though many do. I do not consider who or how I will be responded to by. I like akragon because he is so amusing and challenges me. God saved sinners, not the perfect. I like that, love those who hate you is the real test of our love. I love my exwife that cheated on me and have helped her when it could not benefit me at all. Jesus said that even the worst of us loved those who loved them, no advancement as a species, can we love those that hate us? That is the real question. Peace.