Thinking Of Dying..

Lately I've thought many things about death. I've often laid down at night, in pitch dark wondering if death was just like darkness. Ive tried hard to wrap my head around such things as God, Heaven or Hell, and even the Universe. I've asked myself how was any single thing, living or non-living, ever created. Who is responsible for this Earth, the people, the oceans, or the very tiny atoms and molecules that make these things up? If there is no God or creator, how were things made?

My mom always used to say " God was not made, he's always been, there is no beginning or end." How is that even possible. If there is a God, who created him? How did he become?

Back to death. If what they say referring to Heaven is true, I feel scared. They say that if you go to Heaven, you live forever, and ever, and ever. Again, I can't wrap my head around something with no end. Ok, so you live forever...what's the point, and why?

Back to darkness. So if there is no heaven or hell, then what? We die and it would be like going to sleep never waking up?

Maybe a weird thread with lots of questions to be answered, but it's hard to buy into something you have no empirical data that even exists. On the other hand, it's like a gamble. If you don't believe and find faith, you're destined to hell maybe? Straighten me out here. Am I thinking logically, or am I just one of those bad people who question faith.

Peace my fellow ATSers!

reply to post by Vinny5036


I see it as Religion is a simplified version of what Science has been saying.

In the Christian faith your taught that God created all things and he is all things. When you die your "spirit" lives on for eternity. Your essence may reside in heaven but your physical shell stays here.

Science says that no information is ever lost. The atoms and molecules that make up your body are not destroyed when you die but rather absorbed into the earth. These atoms then decompose to dirt, eaten by a worm, which is eaten by a bird, eaten by a human, converted to energy, which then becomes a part of that person and the next generation. These atoms retain the "information" of your existence...

If you replace the world "spirit" for "information" aren't they basically saying the same thing?

Originally posted by Vinny5036
Lately I've thought many things about death. I've often laid down at night, in pitch dark wondering if death was just like darkness. Ive tried hard to wrap my head around such things as God, Heaven or Hell, and even the Universe. I've asked myself how was any single thing, living or non-living, ever created. Who is responsible for this Earth, the people, the oceans, or the very tiny atoms and molecules that make these things up? If there is no God or creator, how were things made?

My mom always used to say " God was not made, he's always been, there is no beginning or end." How is that even possible. If there is a God, who created him? How did he become?

Back to death. If what they say referring to Heaven is true, I feel scared. They say that if you go to Heaven, you live forever, and ever, and ever. Again, I can't wrap my head around something with no end. Ok, so you live forever...what's the point, and why?

Back to darkness. So if there is no heaven or hell, then what? We die and it would be like going to sleep never waking up?

Maybe a weird thread with lots of questions to be answered, but it's hard to buy into something you have no empirical data that even exists. On the other hand, it's like a gamble. If you don't believe and find faith, you're destined to hell maybe? Straighten me out here. Am I thinking logically, or am I just one of those bad people who question faith.

Peace my fellow ATSers!

edit on 24-8-2012 by Vinny5036 because: (no reason given)

Even worse. You're on of those bad people who don't dream. If you had a dream straight from the heart and you followed it by the time you questioned life to the point of death you would have found the answer. IF you don't know yourself how could you hope to know 'God'.

reply to post by Vinny5036


OP I have wondered this same thing.

I always wondered if our planets were like cells and we were living very miniscule lives, possibly floating on a dust ball in a bigger entities closet. Lol

But to be serious, I remember Einstein said "energy never dies" I like to think of our bodies as a series of electrical impulses that leave some imprint after our physical body is gone.

I have had personal experiences which lead me to believe in heaven.

I do not know if God is a conscious being, or a energy force.

Also, what if whatever it is responsable for the existance of all things became extinguished? As depressing as it is to die, its a bit depressing living forever as well.

reply to post by Vinny5036


I can tell you some of my personal experiences with dying people. I worked in nursing homes for 20yrs and nursed dying or near dying relatives because of my Hospice experience. Some were religious, some not at all. But when their time came, I never saw anything but peace come over them. The only regrets I ever heard was about leaving their families. That is where God is, where love lives.

Originally posted by MOMof3
reply to post by Vinny5036

 

I can tell you some of my personal experiences with dying people. I worked in nursing homes for 20yrs and nursed dying or near dying relatives because of my Hospice experience. Some were religious, some not at all. But when their time came, I never saw anything but peace come over them. The only regrets I ever heard was about leaving their families. That is where God is, where love lives.

So true.God is where love is.Love is in your heart.
Doesn't matter what you call it,it's all the same.
You only have so many trips around the sun.
Make the most of it and enjoy the ride.

Originally posted by kat2684
"energy never dies"

Here's to intelligent heat.

May we all die peacefully, so that we may enjoy the dream sequence. Let us not die buried alive in a coffin slowly filling with water. Now, having your head smashed flat without warning wouldn't be too bad. You'd be out of existence with no worries before or on your way to being "off".

Originally posted by LordD

Originally posted by Vinny5036
Lately I've thought many things about death. I've often laid down at night, in pitch dark wondering if death was just like darkness. Ive tried hard to wrap my head around such things as God, Heaven or Hell, and even the Universe. I've asked myself how was any single thing, living or non-living, ever created. Who is responsible for this Earth, the people, the oceans, or the very tiny atoms and molecules that make these things up? If there is no God or creator, how were things made?

My mom always used to say " God was not made, he's always been, there is no beginning or end." How is that even possible. If there is a God, who created him? How did he become?

Back to death. If what they say referring to Heaven is true, I feel scared. They say that if you go to Heaven, you live forever, and ever, and ever. Again, I can't wrap my head around something with no end. Ok, so you live forever...what's the point, and why?

Back to darkness. So if there is no heaven or hell, then what? We die and it would be like going to sleep never waking up?

Maybe a weird thread with lots of questions to be answered, but it's hard to buy into something you have no empirical data that even exists. On the other hand, it's like a gamble. If you don't believe and find faith, you're destined to hell maybe? Straighten me out here. Am I thinking logically, or am I just one of those bad people who question faith.

Peace my fellow ATSers!

edit on 24-8-2012 by Vinny5036 because: (no reason given)

Even worse. You're on of those bad people who don't dream. If you had a dream straight from the heart and you followed it by the time you questioned life to the point of death you would have found the answer. IF you don't know yourself how could you hope to know 'God'.

I don't get your point. I never said I " hope to know God ". I said it's like a gamble. If there truly is a God and you never believed, then you're merely doomed I suppose. The fact is we are here on earth, and we are conscious so we have the ability to think this way.
I'll try to use the analogy of a rock. The rock maybe millions of years old, it may have seen other civilizations in it's time (not literally seen, matter of speech). It may survive in my backyard for thousands or hundreds of thousands of years...but how? Who made the rock, who made the atoms that formed the rock? Something did, or I'm just involved in one long drawn out messed up dream.
So a person dies and the soul goes to Heaven. Forever? And ever, and ever, no end, ever? Seems scary to me to think this way.

I think of dying too very often.

But what dying, and whose dying?

We don't even know for sure what dying means.
To some a hell, to some a heaven, to some coming again, and to some just nothing - like before we ever existed.
It's unavoidable for sure, but that's all it is.

It's living that should scare us.
Living is not for sissies, and it's a challenge.

Who is it... that is concerned about what it would be... to not be?

Originally posted by Vinny5036

I don't get your point. I never said I " hope to know God ". I said it's like a gamble. If there truly is a God and you never believed, then you're merely doomed I suppose. The fact is we are here on earth, and we are conscious so we have the ability to think this way.
I'll try to use the analogy of a rock. The rock maybe millions of years old, it may have seen other civilizations in it's time (not literally seen, matter of speech). It may survive in my backyard for thousands or hundreds of thousands of years...but how? Who made the rock, who made the atoms that formed the rock? Something did, or I'm just involved in one long drawn out messed up dream.
So a person dies and the soul goes to Heaven. Forever? And ever, and ever, no end, ever? Seems scary to me to think this way.

One 'Christianizeing' your belief on life is never a final answer its only a start. two re-read and what i said and ponder.

There's four possible answers to this:

1. You go to heaven and live forever

2. You go to hell and live forever

3. You are reincarnated over and over and live forever

4. You die and that's it

Number 3 sounds the best to me because why would you want to live as the same person forever and ever? That seems a bit boring in my opinion, I prefer experiencing something entirely new over the same thing forever.

Number 2 is nothing but religious dogma in my opinion, only existing to keep people in line.

Number 4 wouldn't be too bad either because there would be nothing bad to experience. I don't personally believe that this life is all there is but I'm not too worried about number 4.

reply to post by Vinny5036

Lately I've thought many things about death.

Oh, any special reason why you would be now thinking about that sort of thing?

I've often laid down at night, in pitch dark wondering if death was just like darkness.

I would guess that it could be, but don't see any reason why it should, in particular.

Ive tried hard to wrap my head around such things as God, Heaven or Hell, and even the Universe.

Probably something to get, at some point in your life.

I've asked myself how was any single thing, living or non-living, ever created.

A very powerful force, like a great wind but in the form of a living creature, not that it looks like one especially but behaves like one with a sort of mind of its own.

Who is responsible for this Earth, the people, the oceans, or the very tiny atoms and molecules that make these things up?

Someone, who is not really a person exactly but what behaved at one time like a person, which was the collective mind of every sentient being who would ever live throughout eternity.

If there is no God or creator, how were things made?

The thoughts of what we can think of as that mother, the only first mother of all things, which is no real mother or even a person but what operated as if it was one, through pure thought.

My mom always used to say " God was not made, he's always been, there is no beginning or end."

Hmm, that is the simple way to think of it but apparently evidenced by this thread, not one that you find sufficiently satisfying.

How is that even possible. If there is a God, who created him? How did he become?

Self created, in the thought stage, in the void that existed before the formation of the universe, by choosing what role as an individual will be filled by that person once persons were to come in existence, as the plan conceived by thought went into action.

Back to death. If what they say referring to Heaven is true, I feel scared. They say that if you go to Heaven, you live forever, and ever, and ever. Again, I can't wrap my head around something with no end. Ok, so you live forever...what's the point, and why?

There isn't like a spot somewhere where you get stuck, that would be sort of hellish if that was the case. The universe is not quite done yet, meaning that as old as it is, it is still in its formative stage and the maturation of it is beginning but a very long process. In the mean time, we have to go from one place to another. A very long from now, as in virtually forever, we will find a place and settle down, but by then, we will be mature too, and it will be natural and something to enjoy.

Back to darkness. So if there is no heaven or hell, then what? We die and it would be like going to sleep never waking up?

I believe that is possible but not inevitable, though you phrase it as a hypothetical, where it really doesn't apply since there is a sort of hell and also a heaven at least in concept, even if it is not now a particular place.

Maybe a weird thread with lots of questions to be answered, but it's hard to buy into something you have no empirical data that even exists.

What would you like to "buy into" if you did have empirical data? Would you even know what to do with that data if you had it. Now you do not or believe you do not, but that does not mean that other people do not because a lot of people do. The problem is what exactly to make of it all.

reply to post by Vinny5036

On the other hand, it's like a gamble. If you don't believe and find faith, you're destined to hell maybe?

Most likely, and probably most people do find themselves in a place hard to not describe as hell since it would fit some description that is out there in various forms in the world's mythologies. "Faith" is not as simple as it may superficially appear and it requires an attachment to other things, like what you mentioned earlier, God, which I think of as all the beings in the universe who made the decision to live in the universe but not to be directly bound to it by having their natures made with the material aspects of the universe. These beings who we can think of as a unity because of their spiritual connection to each other, have a freedom that we do not have as those who thoroughly enjoy the experience of the universe in physical bodies, to assist us when we are in a bad situation caused by the breakdown of these very bodies we chose to have as inhabitants of that universe that we in a sort of way were the contributors to that coming about.

Straighten me out here. Am I thinking logically, or am I just one of those bad people who question faith.

Like I started with, on "faith", it is not just a belief but a way of life we have when we are spiritually connected to God, who can take out of Hell and death and renew our lives, in whatever form that is, which is to be determined at that time and we will deal with at that time. Now is the time to go through the thought process, to think about how you are going to deal with all the eventualities where you are not left without options and spend eternity in a miserable state. The universe is a harsh place but you decided to join it though you probably don't remember doing that, and the natural universe is not your friend and would be happy enough to turn you into so much compost and capture your souls inside itself since it has no soul of its own. But I can tell you that you will not like it if that turns out to be the case for you.

Originally posted by Vinny5036
Back to darkness. So if there is no heaven or hell, then what? We die and it would be like going to sleep never waking up?

Imagine waking up in darkness and never being able to go to sleep..

When that happens, look for a pinpoint of light, take the dream (I meant LIFE) review and then pick something new, anything.

Eternal life is life TO life in eternity, it doesn't mean that you keep the same form forever. You can even go into the abode of light for high level strategic training purposes and then come back here to do something, which by some accounts might seem small, but in the grand scheme of things might be of the farthest reachings proportions and meaning and significance.

Originally posted by Vinny5036
Lately I've thought many things about death. I've often laid down at night, in pitch dark wondering if death was just like darkness. Ive tried hard to wrap my head around such things as God, Heaven or Hell, and even the Universe. I've asked myself how was any single thing, living or non-living, ever created. Who is responsible for this Earth, the people, the oceans, or the very tiny atoms and molecules that make these things up? If there is no God or creator, how were things made?


...............If we knew exactly how God made things then we wouldn't be mere mortals.


My mom always used to say " God was not made, he's always been, there is no beginning or end." How is that even possible. If there is a God, who created him? How did he become?


...............We're human we don't understand everything.


Back to death. If what they say referring to Heaven is true, I feel scared. They say that if you go to Heaven, you live forever, and ever, and ever. Again, I can't wrap my head around something with no end. Ok, so you live forever...what's the point, and why?

...............Time stops when you go to heaven. Impossible for us to understand as we are bound by time this this 3D world. Heaven is a different dimension. Time has no baring there anymore. And if it does it's something you'll want to go on and on, not stop.

Back to darkness. So if there is no heaven or hell, then what? We die and it would be like going to sleep never waking up?

..............Atheists sure hope there's no heaven or hell. So do most people that don't believe in Jesus. It's like this. If the Athiest is right then nothing matters. And both Christian and Atheist will both cease to exist. But if the Christian is right then he goes to heaven forever and the Athist to hell forever. Pretty risky odds to wage your eternity on.



Maybe a weird thread with lots of questions to be answered, but it's hard to buy into something you have no empirical data that even exists. On the other hand, it's like a gamble. If you don't believe and find faith, you're destined to hell maybe? Straighten me out here. Am I thinking logically, or am I just one of those bad people who question faith.

.............There's tons of evidence, just read the bible. And if you want go beyond that there's a whole scientific study of apologetic which determines the validity of the bible and has proven it's accuracy. We wouldn't know any of this if it wasn't revealed to mankind at that historical juncture that the bible depicts.

Peace my fellow ATSers!

edit on 24-8-2012 by Vinny5036 because: (no reason given)

You don't have to know it all. You don't start off knowing it all. you start knowing very little. The journey of a 1000 miles starts with one step. So your one step tonight is just to do a short prayer, say "Jesus if you're real I'd like to believe please show me the truth and come into my life". Thats' all you have to do to get started. And he will hear you and begin to show you stuff you never dreamed of, thats' all I can say.

Maybe step 2 is to dust off your bible and start reading. Your number one purpose in life beyond anything else is just to get to know your creator. That's it. Once you know that. Once you know your on your way to heaven and everything is going to be okay then you'll know you've made it. But not only that, God will help you tremendously in this world too. He's your constant and never ending help in times of trouble, the only friend that stays closer to you than a brother. He will never leave you nor forsake you. You have to reach out to him though.

This is hollywoods depictions. They really will never show us how incredibly good or bad these two places are but it's the best they can do on a budget ha ha.

This is a depiction of hell:



Another of heaven:

reply to post by r2d246


If the purpose in life is to learn about your creator, the way to learn about him is through science and understanding the universe, not some dusty old book that's stayed basically the same for 2,000 years. The path to learning is advancing ones knowledge, not staying stuck in the same ways of thinking throughout your whole life.

The bible doesn't have all the answers, no matter how badly you want to believe it does. Science is the way, logic and reason are the way, not an old book.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by r2d246

 

If the purpose in life is to learn about your creator, the way to learn about him is through science and understanding the universe, not some dusty old book that's stayed basically the same for 2,000 years. The path to learning is advancing ones knowledge, not staying stuck in the same ways of thinking throughout your whole life.

The bible doesn't have all the answers, no matter how badly you want to believe it does. Science is the way, logic and reason are the way, not an old book.

What answers is the bible missing? A bible only gets dusty if you don't read it. Science definitely DOES NOT have all the answers. We have such little understanding of the universe.

Science proves the bible is true, ie: Apologetic.

Science is just one aspect of life. Spirituality is another.

You are not you. You are the universe experiencing individuality. When you die, you will be a new you. What you identify with at death will be the whole and you will experience yourself as that. The universe, in its entirety, is what you are. Indivisible. With liberty and justice for all.

reply to post by r2d246


I agree science does not have all the answers but it's a lot closer than the bible is. There are MANY questions the bible does not answer. If you do believe it has all the answers then you are delusional and are separated from reality.

To think a book written by people 2,000 years ago has all the answers is pure ignorance. We are much smarter now than we were back then.