Pastor who "kicked" Holy Spirit into woman banned from UK! Religious discrimination?

halfoldman:

I think it's a demonstration of atheist rule from the UK, who think that kicking people in the face, punching them and slamming their limbs on the floor cannot be a spiritual experience.
Who says it can't?

It can't. PERIOD. You can't harm physically or argue verbally, and not be stricken with the need to improve and seek assistance overcoming, because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Peace and Love. You don't lay a finger on people except as a hand up, a loving touch, when warranted and legal, and kindness. You never harm. And Goodness does not harm. You even are expected to strive to work on your words and tone.

reply to post by Unity_99

So where does that leave that the papacy, Calvinism, Lutheranism and Christian colonialism?

Is there a completely new non-violent form of Christianity all of a sudden?

Or is it just a convenient way of sanitizing certain sects that are probably also violent?

What verses prove that Christianity is non-violent?
Please tell me more.

reply to post by halfoldman


I totally understand where you are coming from. Many of the self-proclaimed followers of God have committed many atrocities and have been very violent.

But you must understand that it is not right to judge God based on the actions of those who falsely proclaim Him their King.

If I told people that I followed you and believed in you and then I turned around and posted in another thread that I think some people should get kicked in the face to receive the Holy Spirit; is that your fault or mine?

You must also make the distinction between violence and vengeance. The Lord says, "Vengeance is mine." How He goes about that vengeance is His decision because He is the Maker of mankind and also the Maker of vengeance. But notice again how I said that the Lord said, "Vengeance is mine."

We must make the distinction between God commanding a person or His people to perform an act from a man of his own accord performing an act - particularly an act of violence in this case.

Some of the largest arguments against Christianity is that our God is blamed for the many deaths by war that took place in the Old Testament, for the prophesied destruction to come, and for what people believe is an eternity in a place of burning called Hell.

While these arguments appear valid at first, upon further inspection we understand the justification of our God and the reality of His mercy and also His willingness to give people exactly what they ask for throughout the entirety of human history.

I will start a thread explaining all of this in full so that I do not make a mockery of this particular thread.

But I reiterate: I know exactly how you feel.

However, true Christianity, which hardly exists at all anywhere anymore (except maybe in less popular countries in which Christians are having their heads lopped off literally no sooner than they convert), is not violent. It is written, "You shall perform no violence." When Jesus Christ was to be taken by the guards of the Jews, Peter defending Him by striking the ear off of a guard with his sword. Jesus said, "Put away your sword. For he who lives by the sword must die by the sword."

And as a final note for this post, please be extremely careful to associate Christianity with genocides and slaughter. The catholic church has not and never will be Christian. In fact most all denominations are no longer Christian but are overrun with pagan rituals and beliefs - society has had its way with my church.

We do not march against people. We do not attack people. We do not judge anyone except those that claim Jesus Christ as their Saviour and yet are liars. We do not spread hatred or lies; but we only present what seems right and hopefully with only the most humble attitude. We are well-read in general and also near perfect in our understanding of the Scriptures because that is our life. We only share with those who wish to learn. We listen and understand and relate because we are also human beings with like passions and desires. We understand both sides of every story. We don't judge the rich man for his riches, neither how he spends them, neither do we covet it, but we are glad that he is rich. We don't judge the poor man that he uses his begged dollar for a beer; his life is hard, why shouldn't he desire a break from it? Do we lead these people into their desires? Absolutely not. We only understand them. If someone chooses to be led, then we will lead. If not, then we will not.

This is how I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that God's stance on this particular situation is easily discerned. Let the man do what he is doing. Let the state write proper laws in order to preserve the children. Give to people what they want so they understand the consequences of their wishes and prayers. Be readily available to everyone that changes their mind so that we can mend them and give them a chance to clearly make their own choices again.

If you would like to read an example for yourself, I suggest you read Romans. This is the only way that you're going to be able to form a valid opinion anyway. We wouldn't expect you to argue against String Theory unless you had at least studied some of the most important principles of it. So then how can you make an argument against Christianity until you attempt to read at the least what I claim is the best human-sinner (as opposed to the perfect human Jesus Christ) example of a Christian: Paul. Read Romans for your education.

I will let you know when I post my thread regarding peoples' argument concerning God's seemingly violent behavior. I hope to justify my Father so that you understand that everything He did, someone received mercy and justice in the process; and perfectly so.

reply to post by halfoldman


As I said in the previous thread, we only judge those that claim Jesus Christ as their Saviour and yet they are liars.

This is in response to your first response to me. The previous post I made was in response to your response to Unity.

Yes, you are absolutely right. We are supposed to be fixing and or getting rid of those who are claiming our God and yet they are not of our God. EXACTLY RIGHT. This is a thing that people do not do because they are far too political and desire their positions more than they desire to be right with God.

But on the same note, I would like you to understand that there will be no such thing as a legal organization or a legal denomination calling for this kind of thing. You see, all of these legalized denominations are just that - legalized. So they have a certain status they have to uphold because they are, in short, government entities (especially by means of the fact that most churches in America anyway have a tax exemption status '501(c)3' which basically makes them government entities - therefore their message is controlled in order to preserve their money [and it is written, "You cannot serve God and mammon[means 'money']"]).

But you will soon see a greater increase in the number of God's elect coming out and setting the record straight and making sure to expose the fakes for who they are.

Christians have been too apologetic about their own family. This is wrong. We are supposed to be apologetic and understanding of those who are lost. We are not supposed to be easy on those who claim our God because we are supposed to keep them accountable (not to say that we should be harsh; but that we are diligent, and yet still kind, but stern and harsh at the same time, but allowing room for human error, but also not allowing room for blasphemy and blatant disobedience).

This is all common sense to those that care - Christian and atheist alike.

And atheists have been trying to tell Christians for the last 100 years. But unfortunately people have been led by their fears and their moneys and their traditions and their allegiances and The Powers That Be - so they have taken the Lord's name in vain because they do not do as He commands.

If I work a job and I wear the insignia of the corporation and I do not follow corporate statutes, am I doing what I should be doing? Absolutely not. I am a poor representative. I'm going to get fired eventually. But then what stops me from going into the world with the same shirt and claiming that I am what my shirt says? And yet I don't do the work? Nothing. But eventually I will be found out. All I have done is make that particular corporation look bad because of my attitude and my lies. But will the corporation take responsibility for my actions? NO! They will sue me for damages! And then I probably won't be allowed in their offices or stores again!

So, you see, this is the same manner by which God works. Some of the things that God does to keep His name clean for those of us that truly love Him appear violent to those who are on the outside, unfortunately. But the reality is that He is having mercy on those of us who love Him and also making an example to those that do not yet claim His name. He is saying, "If you come to me and ask for My Name, then know that this is what happens to those that defile My Name and therefore cause injustice and wrongful punishment to those of my people that DO love me and serve me."

You will soon see that the real war is not the religious against the anti-religious... no. Not at all. The real war is going to be between a small body and a large body. Both will call themselves Christian. But the larger body will push the smaller body around and bully it and make an example of it, claiming that the smaller body's weakness is due to its lies about its God. But the smaller will not be hurt. The larger will keep pushing and will get worse and worse and resort to using weapons. The smaller will still not be hurt. Though it may lose its arm and its leg and its eye and an ear, the smaller body will continue to get back up and look the larger body in the face and say, "The Lord rebuke thee. Get behind me Satan."

People should have the right to stand in line to get the crap beat out of them.
However this is not of the true father.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Unity_99

 

So where does that leave that the papacy, Calvinism, Lutheranism and Christian colonialism?

Is there a completely new non-violent form of Christianity all of a sudden?

Or is it just a convenient way of sanitizing certain sects that are probably also violent?

What verses prove that Christianity is non-violent?
Please tell me more.

That would be the teachings of Jesus.
The New Testament.

reply to post by deadeyedick

Well exactly, they all claimed to have that teaching, but they all turned violent.
Should one not judge every tree by its root?

And there are parts of that teaching that say quite clearly that Jesus does not bring peace, but a holy sword to even turn family members against each other violently?

However, I appreciate the fact that non-violent and good Christians have made a stand here.

Even in the whole circus of religion a moral line is drawn for conscientious people, and I commend the Christian posters on this page who have spoken out for that.

If only people in politics had spoken out sooner in a similar fashion...

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by deadeyedick

 

Well exactly, they all claimed to have that teaching, but they all turned violent.
Should one not judge every tree by its root?

And there are parts of that teaching that say quite clearly that Jesus does not bring peace, but a holy sword to even turn family members against each other violently.

However, I appreciate the fact that non-violent and good Christians have made a stand here.

Even in the whole circus of religion a moral line is drawn for conscientious people, and I commend the Christian posters on this page who have spoken out for that.

If only people in politics had spoken out sooner in a similar fashion...

edit on 24-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

I commend your firm grip on reality!
Indeed Jesus does return with a mighty sword to weed out the unrighteous and until then we are told to prepare and do no harm. What happens to the unrighteous is up for debate.

My personal view of the situation is that a sort of virus has over taken the world and it does not adhere to churches or homes only love for others that hate you. When you overcome this hate with forgiveness and love then you have the cure.
Having the cure does not mean that everything is jolly it only means that you have seen the face of evil and know in your heart that something is calling the shots and awaits you in the end.

reply to post by halfoldman


We need to kick people in the face now? What happened to simply laying on of hands for impartation?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Well I don't run any ministries, let alone ministries that are violent or kick people.

So I'm not sure why that question is directed at myself.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by halfoldman

 

We need to kick people in the face now? What happened to simply laying on of hands for impartation?

You know that it is hasatan doing the kicks.
Through grace these people can be relieved of their delusion to be kicked in the face not the law of the land.

i never got these shows, they must be in on it, no one is that dumb, reminds me of seances.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


What makes you think that The Lord requires the laying on of hands?

What happened to the descending of The Spirit as a dove or as a flaming fire?

What happened to The Spirit doing the will of the Father without a need for even a physical representation of its manifestation?

And to halfoldman, it is written that Jesus Christ came to bring enmity between the father and son and brother and sister and so forth; but this enmity is not an enmity of violence that He brings. This enmity is the fact that some in some families will love the Lord and that some in those families will not love the Lord; and therefore those who do not love the Lord will be heinous towards those that do love the Lord; even their own family will do this to them! I know...

Because I suffer this regularly.

It is not violence that Christ is claiming He brings! He is saying that He came to do this so as to justify His mercy on those who love Him and justify His judgment on those that do not love Him!

It is not that He desires violence at ALL. No; those who do not love the Lord are begging for violence because to be against the Lord is to be with the opposite. Because the Lord is love, and if one turns the other way, the same is a violent person because the same rejects love.

Because of the violence that the hateful, regardless of whether the violence be wholly physical in nature or whether it be a war waged with lies, deception, greed, trickery; however the war is waged, it is because of the violent nature of the hateful that the violence manifests. He came to allow this course of action to take place so that people would be exposed for who they are so that His children might shine forth. NOT because He desires to see pain and misery.

But He desires to see pain and misery in the hearts of some people because for some people this will help them to turn to salvation. For some people this works. It is not because He enjoys seeing them suffer; no, not at all. It is because He knows the result.

He finds joy in the suffering of people when that suffering means that they are coming close to learning their lesson and finally turning to the Comforter - begging the Holy Spirit to have mercy on them and give them comfort from the Father, begging the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive them for the stupidity that they committed which inevitably led them to the situation they were currently in -- all because they wanted to do things "my" way instead of His way.

Do we not do the same thing for our children? Do we not HATE to see them suffer? And yet do we also know that some of life's lessons must be learned hard for them to understand that they should have listened to you in the first place? Do they not discover the love you have for them by allowing them to make some of their mistakes and yet kindly guiding them, regardless of whether they are accepting or not? And then when they act brash and arrogant and foolish, do we not put them in their place and say, "No. The line is drawn here. Do NOT mistake my kindness for weakness. You will go no further. You are grounded." And thus they are left without their entertainment, without their comfort, without their treats. They have but a place to lay their head and meals when they are ready; and then only if they are capable of enjoying the meals without ruining the meal for the rest of the people at the table.

Because we make our kids to learn to appreciate and discover the beauty in the simple things! Silence... Food... Family... VALID discussion... well-placed and good tasting humor... and so on. Is that not how we learned? We suffered enough of our own stupidity (or we learned by witnessing the consequences that others reaped) that we learned to finally appreciate those things that we originally considered old, boring, useless, pathetic, stupid... do these not sound like things a rebellious teenager says? Does not a rebellious teenager question the wisdom of his dad and mom? And only if the question is well spoken is an answer even considered because the parents do not answer to the child, but the other way around? And yet if the question is not well spoken, but the teenager throws a fit like a two year old, and they take advantage of their power to get away; do we not let them go but at the same time chase them? Do we not keep an eye on what they are doing and where they are going to discern what problems there might be, and yet also we snatch them up before their stupid mistake, if they allow us to?

Is it just me or is this analogy making too much sense - and yet you will still find an argument against the common sense nature of God as well.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Well I don't run any ministries, let alone ministries that are violent or kick people.

So I'm not sure why that question is directed at myself.

Well, technically it was just hyperbole.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


I said the laying on of hands "for IMPARTATION".

It profits nothing to reply to a post out of context, it makes it seem you're offering your pretext when you do that.

Originally posted by deadeyedick

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by halfoldman

 

We need to kick people in the face now? What happened to simply laying on of hands for impartation?

You know that it is hasatan doing the kicks.
Through grace these people can be relieved of their delusion to be kicked in the face not the law of the land.

Amen... just can't find evidence of the apostles doing anything similar in the book of Acts to impart spiritual gifts.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by deadeyedick

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by halfoldman

 

We need to kick people in the face now? What happened to simply laying on of hands for impartation?

You know that it is hasatan doing the kicks.
Through grace these people can be relieved of their delusion to be kicked in the face not the law of the land.

Amen... just can't find evidence of the apostles doing anything similar in the book of Acts to impart spiritual gifts.

It does seem hard to swallow that we would say that these acts should be condemned by followers with a true heart and still have the right for ones that are misguided and evil at heart upheld by the law of the land.
It is the truth though and it is the path to true love.

With that said i do not believe that if i happened to find myself in the audience that i would not choose a path of violence toward the ones who choose to kick the lost.

So in the end who would that make me.

reply to post by halfoldman




I don't believe that was the Holy Spirit. A "spirit" ? maybe, but I don't think that was THE Spirit.

reply to post by halfoldman


Man this dude always looked wasted on something.


Another snakeoil salesman.

God crucified his own son. Why are you guys hating on this guy?