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Multiple People Reported Shot Near Empire State Building

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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 


Hey Symbiot, love the avatar pic for starters!




Shootings like this are an indicator that a problem exists, not with the individual shooter, but with the society from where the shooter came.

I think what you said here is important. You're absolutely correct that we have major problems here in the United States, and sometimes these problems escalate into much more tragic problems, like a public shooting. These problems are not isolated to the United States either, every nation and continent has its own unique set of issues. Unfortunately

I do disagree that the criminal, or the shooter in this case, does not have a problem. This shooter has a significant problem that he cannot effectively manage his stress and this led to him killing multiple innocent people, not to mention the police then shot and killed him. He committed a highly immoral and unethical crime; that is a problem. Even if a medical expert finds that suffered from a mental defect that prevented him from making choices involving morals and ethics, well, that's still a problem. I think it's a 50/50 problem here. I took a childhood psychology course in college. I'll never forget a statement made by her the very first day of class. She said, "Remember, its ok that you Want to bounce the baby off the ground when its crying uncontrollably, but its Not okay to do it!"


edit on 25-8-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by rottenrascals
 


Ya NYC has VERY strict gun laws. Which just further emphasizes the idea that when you outlaw guns, only the criminals will have them.

The colorado shootings were a terrible tragedy, my sympathies go out to all those who were personally affected by it. But I cant help but wonder, what if someone had been open-carrying in that theater? Aside from the fact that the story would of had a chance to turn out much differently, but it could have been a "win" for responsible gun owners everywhere. And im not trying to joke or belittle the severity of that situation.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic911
 


Thanks for the avatar compliment, CG is a bit of a hobby of mine


I do agree that the assailant has a problem, but I don't think this is an inherent problem as in it's not a problem that exists in his genetics, he's not a defect in my opinion. Perhaps he simply lacks the capability to express himself in a manner that would get his point across. Maybe he lacked in the ability to articulate his emotions and at the same time even if he did not lack in such an ability maybe no one would listen. I'm thinking he felt trapped, he was not happy where he was, obviously, and felt that he had no means to escape this torture. No where to run and no one to talk to his bottle filled with anger and frustration. In the end it would seem he felt death was his only recourse and decided to take the person he hated most with him.

I feel that I understand where he might have been coming from, however; I think I do have the capability to articulate my feelings on the subject. I've spent a lot of time trying to understand my emotions and a good deal of time learning how to place these thoughts into words which others can understand.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 



"Perhaps he simply lacks the capability to express himself in a manner that would get his point across. Maybe he lacked in the ability to articulate his emotions and at the same time even if he did not lack in such an ability maybe no one would listen."

Being around people who have NO ONE to answer to but themselves, who do not listen, do not care to listen, and WILL NOT listen, no matter what is said, who is saying it, or even how they are saying it... Trust me- there are times, you'd just wanna grab these people and shake them till their brains rattle in their heads like peanuts in a can!

Or, my explanation which my g/f just *loves*:

I can be talking about any variety of subjects. Let's say- I wanted to get some bismuth to do some casting- and one place to get the bismuth is to get shotgun shells. I casually mention wanting to cast metal, and where I'd end up having to get the metal to one of these morons. I say "I guess I need to go to Wal Mart, get some shotgun shells, and rip them open for the bismuth so I can make some metal casting". What the moron hears is "blah! blah blah blah SHOTGUN blah blah RIP THEM OPEN blah blah blah *cash register sound* OMG! Who are you mad at????

Or, when I went to Disney with someone- I had gotten a spider bite on my arm. Sucker inflated to the size of a football, and I was MISERABLE. sick, feverish, And at the same time, stupid enough to still want to go to the parks. (yes, I can be an imbecile.) I didnt know I had a spider bite complication until my arm began to swell, so i was as sick as a dog. Person I was with? "Geeze- quit being such a mopey, grumpy SOB!" No matter how many times I mentioned I wasnt feeling all that great- like wind thru a tree. Then... after I end up having to go to the hospital, swelling, antiobiotic shots, and on and on and on: "oh, wow. You were sick?! I thought you were just in a bad mood!"


People DO NOT CARE. And dont want to care. After a few other incidents like this- nearly being wiped out by SOBs who can NOT wait at a crosswalk where I legally have the signal is but just *one* of thousands of things I and my g/f have been subjected to- I pretty much wish the entire human race to be reduced to screaming ash at times. I am a good, kind person who has tried to be nice, courteous, and helpful- and people use me like toilet paper a LOT. It builds frustration and anger *very* fast. I have other outlets that serve me well (my middle finger is getting BUFF from all the use I get out of it!
), so I wont be blowing a fuse *that* way, any time soon. I also have the self discipline to *not* buy a gun. There are also the moral implications. I just dont kill people. I can barely bring myself to kill rats (when I worked at an animal shelter. Suckers were HUGE because they'd get into the dog food). I had to dispatch a couple- and it was a struggle for me to do the deed. Besides... if anyone were to end up dead, it'd have been my ex g/f. Talk about someone absolutely deserving a death worthy of Itchy and Scratchy....*itch is still alive, tho. Married, kids, ruined my life utterly.. I digress.

So, when people snap.... I understand the absolute *why* they did. And yes, sometimes, I think the ones who directly got it in the end deserved it. Before people get out their flamethrowers, tho... What right do the antagonists have to reduce a good person to this level? People who rip someone to shreds at work, push people out of the way, and generally act like ass on a stick? You cant give them the oh so deserving punch on the face, or even retaliate legally, because one simply is not allowed. And these people *know* it. Otherwise, they'd be far more careful of how they conduct themselves. Then, they get shot, knifed, or blown up, and actual innocent people get caught in it, too. Like those signs they have in Federal buildings about "dont threaten the staff, or harm them", and some of the staff deserves to be taken out and horsewhipped! I've been thru *that*... to the point I swear the people I was dealing with were enjoying the fact their stupidity was making my life hell.

And then, there's the repercussions... Like the one woman who not only ran the place she worked at like a Nazi concentration camp- EVERY. LAST. PERSON. Right up to the Social services building around the corner wanted her to die in a fire. It was so bad, I wrote an official complaint letter, brought it to her boss (the dean of a college my g/f attended), listed witnesses-

And this slimy little *censored expletives* not only stalked my g/f when she tried to get a job (thru the same college), she tried to get ME arrested by way of the campus cops when I attended my g/f's graduation (" Me and the chief of the campus police are GOOD FRIENDS"). She rode us till the bitter end, till we moved to fla. I stood my ground, and she called the cops on me. (cont)
edit on 25-8-2012 by wylekat because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


Cont.

She called the cops on me TWICE in 10 min- I had every right, evidence, and witnesses to her actions, and SHE had sway over the cops (who looked really, really uncomfortable). I also was thrown out of a public area for no other reason than she could. I found that out later by way of her boss, and that is what started this.

So... Evil carries on, good people do nothing, and the good ones who just cannot endure, are going crazy. And being wiped out one way or another.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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Odd. Double post.
edit on 25-8-2012 by wylekat because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Starchildren

Originally posted by victor7
It seems public shooting has become a weekly affair in the US. That is a scary scenario, something needs to reverse this trend.


As I told my husband yesterday, another high profile massacre or two, and the right to bear arms will be erased from the constitution. People will be crying for it to happen.


Uh. Not a massacre. Guy shot One person and that was his intended target. ThEn he left.

Everyone else was shot by those cracking dumb cops



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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Dp
edit on 25-8-2012 by Bakatono because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic911
 


One person. Not multiple. The assailant killed one person and that was his intent. He did not shoot anyone else nor does it appear he fired any shots at the cops. The only other people shot were ALL shot by the cops

Don't try to make it more than it is. It is not a massacre. It is not an "active shooter" blasting random people. He shot one person and left. The cops shot everyone else because they are flipping idiots.

In a prior post you state that all these "LEO"s just want to go home at the end of the shift and will do what is necessary to ensure that. These kind of people are exactly the WRONG people to be cops. While they should WANT to go home after a shift their priority should be on protecting innocents. No cop should ever shoot at anyone when the backfield is populated. They should take cover or even get shot in order to protect innocents. Not go all dirty Harry and end up shooting nine people. These cops should all be fired then charged and tried. Not because hey shot the assailant, but because they shot NINE people all up and down that street!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


Thanks for that post of yours, a good read. You know I think that people like the 'nazi' you describe need to understand that there are people out there, unlike you and I, who have a short enough fuse and not much self control. These 'nazis' need to realize that at any given moment someone they treat so poorly could snap and that'll be the end of Mrs. Nazi.

You know I'm all for self control, what I am saying is that I believe it to be a fact that not everyone has this self control and I don't think there's much we can do about that, but the real jerks out there... Well maybe it's karma, some day it might just come back to them. At the same time we, the ones who choose to treat people with some respect, get caught in the crossfire sometimes. I don't think we can eliminate those with the short fuse, but this is our society, we pay for it and we uphold it. Really I think our society, our laws and our rules and regulations demand that the 'nazi' have control, that some people have no choice but to work for the nazi or in some way shape or form be under the control of the nazi. I'm not saying that there are not nice supervisors out there, but we all know the nazis exist and there are those with little choice but to obey them and sooner or later they might just snap.

I think there is more we can do to prevent this, rather than shooting them or throwing them in jail after they snap maybe we can prevent them from snapping in the first place. I'm not talking about spying on people or keeping some type of profile of everyone, but providing a means for people to escape the situations that today they cannot. You know if you have a beef with your supervisor or your local police station where can you go? Who can you talk to? Sure you could go to HR if it's a supervisor, but that usually solves absolutely nothing and probably just makes your supervisor dislike you even more. How can you get out of that situation, especially in a bad economy, but also if you simply don't have the credentials to find another job. You've got to survive so you're gonna keep working for the same jerk until you just can't take it anymore.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 


What has worried me, is how me and my g/f have snapped in small ways: I watched with no small amount of sheer... shock one day at Epcot as a bunch of Arabs decided to hog up the menu area in a loud yelling mob, and this woman, who smiles almost all the time, waded in like The Hulk into a forest of redwoods! I am not kidding- Arabs jumped out of the way and then (the part I simply cannot explain, given the area we were in) THEY WERE GONE. As in "poof". In seconds. Before this, some woman had barged out the exit doors of the place we were going in, and nearly ran my g/f down! I swore at her, and then, well... the above happened while simply trying to track down lunch. I was left standing there at the end of it, STARING. She turns around, grins and asks if I want the turkey sandwich... I am still standing there, and just STARING.. but I at least could squeak out "wha...wha...wha..???" We've both gotten more vocal, pushier, and it's in response to either be that way, or be mowed down on a daily basis! We dont give everyone the business- it's usually a reaction. I have faced off against people driving those giant fuel hogging trucks, who come barreling around the corner when I have the walk light- I swear at them, glare at them, and then dare them to try to run me over. I must look like I truly CAN pick up their truck and throw it, because brakes are hit in astounding fashion!

But my g/f? Acting like this...? For you, it can be equated as "so......?" But for me, her personality has been changing due to stuff like this, and damned wrong stuff at work "We havent given you a raise in 10 months (min wage...), and the boss has to refi her house to give *you* one" (nope- not kidding) And she's supposed to be freaking jolly about it all... I am not saying she shouldnt get angry- but it's the fact things are so bad, she is.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


You know we live in this system of rule where each and every one of us are ordered around and told what to do almost every minute of every day. I would venture to say that at least half of the time you're being ordered to do something you'd really rather not do, maybe you disagree with the order or maybe you just don't have the energy right now, but that's that you were given an order and you must do it and do it right now! The work life is just an endless sea of red tape, dead end back alleys, jerk supervisors and douche bag customers. Anytime you finally find something that you have the opportunity to fight against, legally, you're faced with yet another endless sea of red tape, hundred dollar fees and then you have to role the dice on what type of judge ends up hearing your case.

This is on a daily basis, it's work and if you don't do it you've got no money, no home, no food and probably no friends. Worse yet you really don't have much say as to what it is that you do or who you work for, you've got to take what's available to you and often times this ends up being some tedious, monotonous, bang your head against the wall job. You know I for one am absolutely sick and tired of being ordered around like a dog by snot nosed, pimple faced, know nothing supervisors. Graded and judged by greedy, don't even know your name bosses. Told what to wear, told when to eat, told when to wake. I'm a person dammit and I will wear whatever the hell I want to wear, eat whenever the hell I want to eat and wake up whenever the hell I want to wake up. You know it really wouldn't be half bad if the people ordering you around weren't such fools, where do they get off telling other people what to do and they can't even run their own life.

I'm ranting here I guess, but there's a point. Where it is true that I believe things such as the above can drive people to shoot others, by and large it drives people angry, usually not enough to kill, but enough to become snappy at other people. I think that reality simply doesn't work that way, that the human being does not fit into a cubicle and when you try to put him there weird stuff starts to happen, such as irritability, depression and even murder. To me the solution lies in a radical re-thinking of how we live our lives. I don't think that we should be required to work on a rigid 9-5 schedule and do the work we are told to do rather than the work we want to do.

I do not think that people are inherently lazy, I think we all have talents that are often overlooked. Why can't we simply do what we want to do? I like programming and working on computer graphics, really I'm happy to work on that stuff on my own time, whenever I feel like it and then share it with everyone for free. Personally I think that rather than being required to work a rigid schedule or be starved people could simply work on whatever they enjoy working on whenever they want to work on it and then share the fruits of their labor with the rest of society free of charge. Farmers farming food and sharing it for free. Programmers programming and sharing applications and games for free. Mechanics building cars and sharing them for free. All our needs met with our natural born talents, no one forced to follow orders, forced to eat on a schedule, forced into an unnatural wake-sleep cycle, allowed to be sick only 5 days a year. That's freedom, that's what actual freedom is.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


Sounds to me like you need to join an occupy movement and bongo circle your ills away. Really, no raise in 10 months? The horror. I am sure she deserves it. It is her god given right to a raise. Min wage you say? Look if you are working min wage jobs don't expect much. They can hire any HS dropout to replace you. Min wage jobs are simple labor. If you want a higher salary get a better job.

And if it is a small business I completely believe that the owner would have to mortgage her house to pay people more. My father ran a small business and had to double mortgage his house to make payroll at times. A friend of mine almost lost everything when business slowed down in 08 and 09. He was facing foreclosure but changed his business model, and laid a decent number of people off, and managed to save his house. Now he is scraping by.

So mr 99% why don't you get offnofnyour high horse and buy a bicycle, since you hate those gas guzzling trucks so much, and peddle your but over to the nearest bank to get a business loan so YOU can pay all your employees fairly and give them raises all the time.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Dp
edit on 25-8-2012 by Bakatono because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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They are keeping the pressure up high.
So Obama can Use it as an election speech
to get him self reelected.

You let that mad man in
and the Cops will be the only one with guns.
Take a good look at the post with Cops killing people.
I bet the cops kill more innocents than the bad guys.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by LightsideAssassin

Originally posted by freethinker123

Originally posted by LightsideAssassin
I was 3 blocks away when this happened. I work right around the corner. Just craziness. I'll say the same thing I said after Colorado: one armed citizen returning fire would have put him down faster than responding cops..when you live in a big "weapon-free "zone like NY or CA, you are just sheep waiting to be slaughtered.

Imma break a law or 2 while I'm here. Not going unarmed any more..


Really? At least two armed policemen with firearms training in a built up area managed to injure a number of innocent people nearby. Lets just say 50% of people had been armed I wonder how many people would have ended up injured of dead due to them missing the guy and through ricochets from multiple bullets?

Unless all armed citizens are crackshots what you said was nonsense. And if you enjoy breaking the law, its probably better not to advocate it here.


Really? Anyone who has a CCW had some basic firearms training as part of the CCW class(at least I did when I had a CCW) and, CCW holders tend to be BETTER shots than your average cop,IMHO. Cops shoot just to stay qualified, but rarely have to actually shoot line of duty. CCW holders, as armed citizens, bereft of the authority and protection of being a LEO, takes shooting and carrying much more seriously. No union rep if they # up. No backup. Just an armed citizen, fully utilizing his/her rights afforded under the constitution, not just having to cower and wait for agents of the state to save the day.

Not bashing cops, BTW. Just saying, one gunslinger with proper training at the right place and time makes a positive difference vs. an active shooter engaging random innocents. Response by cops takes time, which is a precious commodity in such a situation as this.


Well thats fine in your case, but is it law that gun owners have to have fire arms training? If not then there is no way it can be considered safe that any Tom, Dick or (Dirty) Harry can pull his gun out and start firing when he sees a situation. Vigilatism is not the way forward.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by rottenrascals
 


Ya NYC has VERY strict gun laws. Which just further emphasizes the idea that when you outlaw guns, only the criminals will have them.

The colorado shootings were a terrible tragedy, my sympathies go out to all those who were personally affected by it. But I cant help but wonder, what if someone had been open-carrying in that theater? Aside from the fact that the story would of had a chance to turn out much differently, but it could have been a "win" for responsible gun owners everywhere. And im not trying to joke or belittle the severity of that situation.


Not true, most people will still have guns whether you outlaw guns or not. Its a matter of huge supply and impossibility to outlaw them completely. This guy obtained his gun legally out of state so NYC gun laws doesn't prove or disprove either side of the gun debate correct.

As for colorado I don't care about wins for one lobby or another. To me that is missing the point. I care about reducing numbers of those killed by crazies on the rampage and I'd like to think most people feel that way. And I'm not sure having a number of people shooting in a dark cinema would have helped that situation.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by Bakatono
 


First off, she WAS training to be a vet tech at this place. Internal politics have screwed that up. Second, she IS looking for other work (if you bothered to read the post). That's why this came up. Third- We may or may not make it thru the week being able to eat, making US the 99% as well. ALL of my income goes to the rent. ALL. OF. IT.

We're talking about people like you in this post. Reread, and then STFU, k? Buh-bye, now.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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I came across this while reading some other news.




So says the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in a public service video posted online late last month. If you find yourself in the midst of a mass shooting, such as the gun attack near the Empire State Building Friday morning (Aug. 24), or the deadly theater shooting in Colorado on July 20, the DHS urges you to take one of three actions: run, hide or fight — in that order of preference.


How to "avoid" being shot in a mass shooting

And really- what the hell with this article? The COPS did the rest of injuries! Try running from cops.



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