Satan hid the fossils to trick everyone!

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Barcs

 

I'm not a big fan of intellectual dishonesty, which you've been caught doing multiple times. Please stop it, it goes against the mantra of this site.

I'm not a fan of dishonesty period !
And the only thing I want to know at this point is who you are trying to fool by attacking my character ? I've been caught ?

What the ding dang diddly are you talking about ? Hey Barcs, put up or shut up ?

It's an ad hominem attack (fallacy). When the argument can't be won, some people will attack your character to make you look bad in which they and everyone else in their own minds can then disregard anything you say afterwards as being false. Basically "i don't like you so anything you say is automatically wrong".

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Barcs

 

I'm not a big fan of intellectual dishonesty, which you've been caught doing multiple times. Please stop it, it goes against the mantra of this site.

I'm not a fan of dishonesty period !
And the only thing I want to know at this point is who you are trying to fool by attacking my character ? I've been caught ?

What the ding dang diddly are you talking about ? Hey Barcs, put up or shut up ?

It's an ad hominem attack (fallacy). When the argument can't be won, some people will attack your character to make you look bad in which they and everyone else in their own minds can then disregard anything you say afterwards as being false. Basically "i don't like you so anything you say is automatically wrong".

He accused the CONTENT of what randy wrote....not just randy. And he did it rightfully so because the claims he makes aren't substantiated by evidence

He clearly said he dislikes "intelectual dishonesty"...so unless you wanna call randy "intelectual dishonesty" from now on, it wasn't an ad hominem attack.

And given that the CONENT of randy's post is soaked in ignorance and provably false claims...well..Barcs is in fact correct.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
He did leave us evidence, it's called the Holy Bible which is comprised of the Hebrew scriptures and it's Greek new testament companion. Archeaology supports the historical accuracy of the Holy Bible. Mt. Sinai is located at Jubal al'Lawz in Saudi Arabia, there you will find everything described in the book of Exodus. They may not have known what science was back then but God did tell them things that coldn't even be proven until the electron microscope and the periodic table of elements had been invented. Science is catching up to the biblical scriptures. No man made version of God is true, the true God is the one who can tell you things before it happens because he is the only one who can give true prophecy. There is a conspiracy in the world to prevent the real evidence from coming to light, and they are even willing to murder to hide the truth. Check the bottom link in my signature.

The bible is not evidence of god, merely evidence that man believed in god. It's written by man. There is no evidence to suggest any of the supernatural events in the bible are true. In fact many historical records contradict bible accounts, (example exodus story). The only things in the bible that can be verified are some of the city names and locations and that's pretty much it. But again, why would god tell people of the past some primitive BS version of how the world works and then disappear for 2000+ years and fail to correct us when we're wrong. It makes no sense. Where is he now? Also what about the Quaran? How do you know the bible is right and Quaran is wrong? You better choose wisely because the wrong choice will land you in eternal torture (which is the biggest joke of it all, follow or be tortured lol). There simply isn't objective evidence of god, and his silence on the matter speaks volumes. Why allow people to continue to fight over which version of him is correct? If god existed and cared about what we do, there would be no doubt and people would know he is real instead of talking to an imaginary friend and never getting a response back.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
It's an ad hominem attack (fallacy). When the argument can't be won, some people will attack your character to make you look bad in which they and everyone else in their own minds can then disregard anything you say afterwards as being false. Basically "i don't like you so anything you say is automatically wrong".

I was certainly not saying "I don't like you, so you're wrong". I was referring exclusively to his content where he referred to things that were blatantly false. This either shows ignorance or intentional deception. If it's simply ignorance, then perhaps I took it too far, but he's been on this anti evolution crusade for quite a while and I'm familiar with the tactics. I'll share some of his quotes in reference to evolution and great flood:

a global flood is indeed a possible and even a plausible occurrence. The Earth only has to pass thru one of these" Space fountains ", as I like to call them..... Suddenly we have a possibility of a global flood that not only corroborates a very ancient account in Genesis.

So he claims a global flood is plausible by posting a picture of an artists depiction of a quasar with water surrounding it. He doesn't post the article it's from, just the picture and claims the earth would just have to pass through the quasar to cause a global flood. This is obviously impossible due to the nature of Quasars, the earth would get eaten. He refers to this as a space fountain. No, an impossible situation does not make the concept of a global flood plausible nor does it "corroborate" the genesis account. It is nothing more than a wild guess. If he admitted it as such, I'd have no problem, but when you use terms like "corroborate" and "plausible" you need evidence and reason for it.

Unable to I.D.anything about our existence and origin, save a half assed, cop out that reads like some little kid saying, " The dog ate it '. Or identifying us with the next closest looking thing on the planet and saying, " That's it ! That's what we share a common ancestor with !

More rubbish. This statement is essentially taking the entire theory of evolution and simplifying it into a wild guess, based on the creatures physical appearance. That's not what it's about. It's about transitional fossils in which we have found thousands, about genetic code, and about lab results all tested and analyzed by experts in their field.

Make that a common ancestor that no one has ever seen and there is absolutely no evidence
for it's existence what so ever.

No evidence for its existence whatsoever. That is verbatim from his post.

www.talkorigins.org...

Surely he can easily debunk this evidence, since according to him it does not exist. If not, his post is a blatant lie, as it said there was absolutely NO evidence. Ignorance or intentional deception. You be the judge.

Yet we haven't found the first one. And you know what ? No body ever will cause it's just a big fat mouthed lie. A pipe dream manifested by the minds of those appointed to the task of conjuring up an alternative belief system, that could be professed upon in an academic venue. In short, an expensive bunch of crap to fill your heads with.

Again, here he is assigning religious attributes to the science of evolution, which is based on scientific experiments and objective evidence. It's complete bull. Nobody has ever found a common ancestor? I posted the transitional fossil list already. Obviously we haven't found every single one, but saying we haven't found a single one is a lie. He also shows poor knowledge of fossilization, and its rarity. No, evolution is not a pipe dream. Pipe dreams are wishful ideas that people want to be true, because it gives them comfort about the future. Science is not a pipe dream, its a description of reality. Common decent isn't wishful thinking.

Like I said, if it's just ignorance that can be corrected, but I've seen him make similar claims in the past about evolution, despite what the evidence says. This is why I say he's being intellectually dishonest. He's taking complicated scientific concepts like quasars and common decent and simplifying them to one liners that don't even come close to doing the field and the scientists who work in it, justice. Oh, fiddle dee dee, the earth could just pass through a space fountain and you have a global flood. My criticism seems harsh, but it's justified.

reply to post by Barcs

The bible is not evidence of god, merely evidence that man believed in god. It's written by man. There is no evidence to suggest any of the supernatural events in the bible are true. In fact many historical records contradict bible accounts, (example exodus story).

What you call supernatural is actually science. God uses what is there to achieve his own purposes, such as the 10 plagues which were caused by the Santorini eruption in 1450 B.C. but the interesting thing was how each plague correlated to mock an egyptian god. So which historical record contradicts the bible?

The only things in the bible that can be verified are some of the city names and locations and that's pretty much it.

What? That's it? Surely not! Names of cities and locations that were destroyed thousands of years ago, yet are exactly right where the bible said they were and have been discovered by archeaologists, take Jericho for instance, it was destroyed and when archeaologists found it, the description in the bible matched the archeaological evidence. Take for instance, Mt. Sinai, what is called Jubal al'Lawz in modern day Saudi Arabia, the foundations of the tabernacle was found, and the graves of the 3000 Moses executed for worshipping the golden calf, and the altar of the golden calf itself as well as the rock he struck which water came from and evidence of this water remains to this day. For years atheists used to say Jesus never existed because no evidence of Pontius Pilate could be found, yet in the 1960's archeaologists dug up an inscription from a pillar denoting "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea" at Caesarea where Jesus preached often. There was a stele discovered in Egypt describing the Exodus (Ahmose stele) and a papyrus written from a scribe during the Exodus called the "Ipuwer Papyrus" also describing the 10 plagues, in which at the end the scribe noted "if i had known God i would have followed him".

But again, why would god tell people of the past some primitive BS version of how the world works and then disappear for 2000+ years and fail to correct us when we're wrong. It makes no sense. Where is he now?

He's giving us all time to make our decision on who to follow, Him or the Evil One. If he fixed all our mistakes how would we learn from them? We couldn't, we learn by making errors and that is how we grow. If he did everything for us how would we ever learn right from wrong?

Also what about the Quaran? How do you know the bible is right and Quaran is wrong? You better choose wisely because the wrong choice will land you in eternal torture

The bible is more accurate than Quran. For one thing Muhammad was illiterate, he didn't write anything, he couldn't even write his own name and the contradictions in the Quran are bogus. Muhammad claimed to fly to the Temple in Jerusalem and that was destroyed 600 years before. He also claimed Gabriel flew him all around the M.E., when only Seraphim and Cherubim have wings, Gabriel and Michael look like you and me minus the wings. He claimed the red heifer Moses sacrificed was yellow, he claims that God has no Son, which is proven wrong many times in the hebrew bible in scriptures predating the Quran by 1500 years. He claimed that the jews say Ezra is the son of God which they did not, he claims Jesus didn't die on the cross which nonbiblical references from nonchristian sources from Tactitus, Pliny the Younger, Marabar Serapion and Josephus make mention that he did, and even the Talmudic scriptues say he was nailed to a tree for apostacy and blasphemy. So why should i believe the Quran when even jewish scriptures not even christian, and pagan sources of the times lend more weight to?

You want scientific evidence of something that occured spoken of in the bible. Try the Great Flood.





So tell me, when did trees start growing on the bottom of the ocean? These pics were taken at a underwater brine lake in the gulf of mexico, 650 feet underwater. According to mainstream science the waters didn't rise that far that fast. At one time, the gulf of mexico was completely dry and not all that long ago either, certainly not 65 million years. Do trees grow on the bottom of the ocean? If these trees had been in shallow water for any amount of time they would have grown coral reefs on them and no trees would be left so apparently the waters rose pretty damn fast, faster than coral could take a hold because coral only grows in shallow water.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

What you call supernatural is actually science. God uses what is there to achieve his own purposes, such as the 10 plagues which were caused by the Santorini eruption in 1450 B.C. but the interesting thing was how each plague correlated to mock an egyptian god. So which historical record contradicts the bible?

And your only "proof" of that is the bible...a document written by MEN. It only shows what people back then believed based on their compared to today limited knowledge.

There's ZERO objective evidence to support your claims. Hell, in some cases it's demonstrably wrong. For example, we know that volcanic eruptions don't cause plagues

What? That's it? Surely not! Names of cities and locations that were destroyed thousands of years ago, yet are exactly right where the bible said they were and have been discovered by archeaologists, take Jericho for instance, it was destroyed and when archeaologists found it, the description in the bible matched the archeaological evidence.

Yes, they got some geography right...but Harry Potter describes London pretty accurately as well. Does that mean we should now believe in wizards?

For years atheists used to say Jesus never existed because no evidence of Pontius Pilate could be found, yet in the 1960's archeaologists dug up an inscription from a pillar denoting "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea" at Caesarea where Jesus preached often. There was a stele discovered in Egypt describing the Exodus (Ahmose stele) and a papyrus written from a scribe during the Exodus called the "Ipuwer Papyrus" also describing the 10 plagues, in which at the end the scribe noted "if i had known God i would have followed him".

It wasn't just atheists who laughed at this...but also archeologists and scientists. Hell, even many religious scholars agreed that it was complete and utter nonsense. You have to differentiate between pseudo-science and real science that is based on facts. What you posted above is PSEUDO-SCIENCE as the following article explains: LINK

Either way, it assumes the bible and other scriptures describe real world events...when we know for a fact they often don't do that. They also claimed gods had animal heads...you do the math

He's giving us all time to make our decision on who to follow, Him or the Evil One. If he fixed all our mistakes how would we learn from them? We couldn't, we learn by making errors and that is how we grow. If he did everything for us how would we ever learn right from wrong?

Like you did when your parents told you what's wrong and what's right?

I hope you don't have kids, because according to your argument if one of them burns his puppy alive...well...you would say "I can't tell him what's right or wrong...let him figure it out". What a load of nonsense

The bible is more accurate than Quran. For one thing Muhammad was illiterate, he didn't write anything, he couldn't even write his own name and the contradictions in the Quran are bogus. Muhammad claimed to fly to the Temple in Jerusalem and that was destroyed 600 years before. He also claimed Gabriel flew him all around the M.E., when only Seraphim and Cherubim have wings, Gabriel and Michael look like you and me minus the wings. He claimed the red heifer Moses sacrificed was yellow, he claims that God has no Son, which is proven wrong many times in the hebrew bible in scriptures predating the Quran by 1500 years. He claimed that the jews say Ezra is the son of God which they did not, he claims Jesus didn't die on the cross which nonbiblical references from nonchristian sources from Tactitus, Pliny the Younger, Marabar Serapion and Josephus make mention that he did, and even the Talmudic scriptues say he was nailed to a tree for apostacy and blasphemy. So why should i believe the Quran when even jewish scriptures not even christian, and pagan sources of the times lend more weight to?

So wait...you claim the Quran is wrong because some stuff sounds crazy? Well then: talking snakes, burning talking bushes, people walking on water, gods causing floods and plagues, stories that didn't happen at all the way it says in the bible, ...

In fact, the bible is FACTUALLY WRONG in hundreds of cases: LINK

So if you call the Quran nonsense based on your definition, you also have to call the bible bat# crazy
That is...unless your faith blinds you so much, you can't accept reality anymore.

You want scientific evidence of something that occured spoken of in the bible. Try the Great Flood.

Well, we know for a FACT that a global flood NEVER happened because there's ZERO evidence and it's physically impossible!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


By the way, those pictures you posted are from a river and it's only 30m deep, not 650 feet. Your first clue should have been that there's too much light for it being 650 feet deep. You could have also done 5min of research to figure out it's a pic of a river taken by a Russian tech-diver: LINK

Great photos...but you completely misused them. So either you were lying, or you fell for pseudo-science.

Many many cultures and there is evidence.



You'll need a new line of attack.

Originally posted by randyvs
Many many cultures and there is evidence.

You'll need a new line of attack.

Yes, and those cultures lived at DIFFERENT points in time

And there is still ZERO evidence of a global flood. An event of that magnitude would leave evidence behind...but there is NONE!

There's also dozens of cultures that claimed the sun is a god....were they right too? Because after all, they all said it

By the way, I have to ask...did you star lonewolf's post? The one where he posted stuff that's easy to debunk...like that nonsense claim about the 650ft underground lake with trees?

reply to post by MrXYZ


Well, thanks for the condescension. I can see you think you know everything and there's really no point with me even trying to have a conversation with you so, good luck with knowing everything . BTW, Not everything in the bible is literal, but i don't expect you to know that.

Well, we know for a FACT that a global flood NEVER happened because there's ZERO evidence and it's physically impossible!

I provided pics proving a great flood did happen. Explain how trees ended up on the bottom of the ocean with absolutely no coral growth on them whatsoever? Whoops, i guess you don't know everything after all

Ciao.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Well, thanks for the condescension. I can see you think you know everything and there's really no point with me even trying to have a conversation with you so, good luck with knowing everything

. BTW, Not everything in the bible is literal, but i don't expect you to know that.

Well, we know for a FACT that a global flood NEVER happened because there's ZERO evidence and it's physically impossible!

I provided pics proving a great flood did happen. Explain how trees ended up on the bottom of the ocean with absolutely no coral growth on them whatsoever? Whoops, i guess you don't know everything after all

Ciao.

edit on 1-10-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

The pictures you posted aren't what you claim they are. Visit the site of the photographer

Whoops, I guess you don't do proper research before posting

The funny thing is, you keep on that nonsense because you picked it up from a pseudo-scientific website like the "creation research institute". If you bothered to think for just one second, you'd realise that there's too much light for this picture being from the "bottom of the ocean". Hell, I even pointed that out in a previous post...yet you conveniently ignored that

Also, there are still LEAVES in the damn picture. If those trees were as old as you claim, there wouldn't be any leaves!! Common sense for crying out loud.

And I'm not bitchy because you didn't know...I'm bitchy because you clearly don't even bother doing the least bit of research to check whether or not your claims are correct. And even worse, once corrected you still repeat the same nonsense...and all because it fits your preconceived notion of a global flood, a notion that is complete and utter bull**** not substantiated by any facts

reply to post by randyvs


My eight year old cousin could come up with a more compelling argument than that video makes. Highlighting words while they are said does not make them true.

Whale Fossils found the Chilean desert is a result of plate tectonics.

en.wikipedia.org...

Ah, that pesky thing called science again.

I provided pics proving a great flood did happen. Explain how trees ended up on the bottom of the ocean with absolutely no coral growth on them whatsoever? Whoops, i guess you don't know everything after all

Those pics are worthless without the source material. Please provide it so I can explain precisely why. That's similar to the deception that Randyvs did with the "aqua quasar". Please post your source material. I'm also interested in your source for the alter and all that mt sinai stuff being found. You didn't give any links or anything at all, backing up any of that. I'm looking for evidence that suggests the events in the bible are actually works of god. As far as I can tell they are just stories that refer to old cities. It doesn't prove the claims about god, only that the cities existed. When people tell stories they change over time and exaggerations are added. The bible is like a 10,000 year old game of telephone. Even the stories of Jesus' life were written decades after he died, by people that didn't witness the events. It's all just storytelling. No way to tell what's fact and what's fiction. Some of it might loosely refer to real events, but it doesn't prove anything about god, heaven or hell.

Edit: Oh crap, I think I realized what just happened.

reply to post by Mr.XYZ


We should all just listen to the all knowing end of the alpha bet man who accepts no evidence against his claims.

This is not evidence.





Again this is not evidence.

reply to post by randyvs


I can't watch more than the first video...I'm rolling on the floor laughing. I mean, comon' randy, their "proof" is that fossilised fish look like they "died in terror" in mid motion

You can't be that ignorant of facts. I can't tell whether those videos are for real or if they are a comedy spoof.

And of course they conveniently ignore the FACT that those fossils don't have the same age. So technically they use pseudo-scientific nonsense like claiming one fish fossil looks like it died "in terror" in mid motion...just to then show a completely different fossil from a different time period that they consider also to have died in terror in mid motion.

Also...the fish fossil example is RETARDED because even if that silly flood happened (which we know is impossible because there isn't enough water on earth for that...and never has been), the one type of animals that would be ok are fish.

The arguments get sillier and sillier. Please stop getting your "information" from pseudo-scientific crap sources like those videos and open a real biology book that's based on facts rather than "I think this fish died in terror, ergo the flood happened"

Also: Ripples in the sand??? Really? For crying out loud, we know how those ripples form...through WIND!!

reply to post by MrXYZ


Haha thanks again for sparing me the watch, although that does sound pretty hilarious. I might just check it out to get a laugh.

At least he's being honest:

This is not evidence.

I wonder if fish die in terror when they are eaten by other creatures?

Video #2 was pretty funny. It claimed a giant geyser from an underwater ocean spouted up causing the tectonic plates to "slide down hill" away from the rise at 45 mph causing collisions mountains and destruction all over. The geyser made the atmosphere very thick so it rain and snowed for 40 days. This is why the wooly mammoths were frozen so fast. So basically the entire past of the planet is squeezed into a single 150 day flood. You can't make this stuff up

I like science. It should be involved if somebody is making claims that go against it.

Originally posted by KingAtlas

"Satan hid the fossils there to trick people" is something I hear in the threads.

It is best to view this in context, in an effort to understand. I refer to the following.

A cocked up and ridiculous account of genesis.
Creating women from a rib as an afterthought, a plaything for the first man. (that would make the resulting humanity a fluke, god didn't consider reproduction?)
Talking snakes.
Talking/burning bushes.
A loving god who decides to wipe out humanity, except for the people who fit all of the estimated 5 - 100 million species (and the other estimated 99% or very roughly at least 495 million species that have become extinct, including dinosaurs) on a little wooden boat, to survive a flood that we know didn't happen. Not only that, we know it couldn't happen.
A slave race in Egypt that we know was imaginary.
An exodus and wandering the desert that left no trace for obvious reasons.
A deity that enjoys having poor turtle doves/sheep/goats slaughtered on a sacrificial alter, in some bizarre occult superstition, in his honour.
A god that wants to stone large portions of his creation.
Halting of planetary and celestial motion, without consequence, to allow someone time to finish their slaughter.
Living inside the digestive system of a fish,completely unscathed, for several days.
Immaculate conception (sounds like a very novel excuse for it's day, if knocked up by the wrong person. Especially in a primitive barbaric place that stones people for such. I wonder why god didn't stone himself for adultery?)
Suspending the law of gravity on a whim.
Changing the molecular structure of matter on a whim.
Faith healing.
Dead rising from tombs and wandering around "appearing to many".
A city of Nazareth that seems not to have been there at the claimed time. Oops.

These little snippets of so many, many more fables based only on rumour and superstition of illiterate ancient peasants who were not there to see any of it. Gives an insight into why. For someone who has been brainwashed enough to believe these things, the title of your thread becomes more understandable. There would appear to be nothing that could be considered implausible (except for things that do have substantial backing as being true, such as evolution, planetary accretion etc). They are not so much adhering to a belief, as suffering from an affliction.

A highlight of the first video was surely someone claiming to be a "Professor of Biblical Studies", as if it somehow legitimises such a title or subject. I imagine this would be similar in rank and merit to a "Professor of Voodoo Studies" or a "Professor of Witchdoctor Studies". Perhaps a "Professor of Superstitious Belief/Cult Mythology/Pseudo Scientific Facts Studies"?

Originally posted by KingAtlas

"Satan hid the fossils there to trick people" is something I hear in the threads.
I used the search, and it doesn't seem like this has been directly addressed, on it's own.

I would like to start by asking people who believe this, to explain.
Because I find it hard to believe, that would be a lot of trouble to go through, and why would this be allowed?

I will try to approach this from a religion perspective. If you believe this, then it brings up other questions for me.


From a religious point of view, if Satan is allowed to do this, does it mean God has no power to stop him?

If Satan buried all the fossils, then are any/all scientific discoveries also tricks?

Is there any proof of this in the bible?

If you believe that Satan could have buried the fossils, is it not also possible that Satan made up a lie about burying the fossils to trick christians into not believing in evolution?

If Satan buried fossils, has God buried stuff as well?

To the OP.

No, I don't believe in the Satan hid the fossils theory. There isn't any Biblical basis for this view.
In addition, if you have God doing burying stuff too, you make Him out to be a deciever. The Bible clearly states that God does not decieve, and this too would go against scripture.

The reason for the fossils is taking a literal Biblical timetable into account along with the global flood that happened aproximately 4600 years ago is where the overwhelming majority of fossils came from. Dead plants & animals were buried by sediments rapidly during the flood where conditions were right for fossilization to occur.

The flood produced an enormous amount of sediment that precipitated out of the water that later has become the sedimentary rock layers we see today. These layers cover 75% or more of the earth's surface, as well as most of the ocean floor. Their average thickness is over one mile thick, but can be over 2 miles thick in some places.

Originally posted by TC Mike
The reason for the fossils is taking a literal Biblical timetable into account along with the global flood that happened aproximately 4600 years ago is where the overwhelming majority of fossils came from. Dead plants & animals were buried by sediments rapidly during the flood where conditions were right for fossilization to occur.

The flood produced an enormous amount of sediment that precipitated out of the water that later has become the sedimentary rock layers we see today. These layers cover 75% or more of the earth's surface, as well as most of the ocean floor. Their average thickness is over one mile thick, but can be over 2 miles thick in some places.

Unfortunately science disagrees.

If that is true, and all land life was killed by the flood and fossilized, then why is everything separated into layers that can be dated by radiometric dating techniques that prove they are from millions and millions of years ago? Why aren't the fossil layers mixed up? It should be a giant grab bag of fossils according to your theory, but it's not. If you were right, we'd see dinosaurs in recent fossil layers with modern creatures, but we don't. Everything is perfectly separated and organized in geological time periods verified by several methods of dating rocks. You never see a dinosaur in the same layer as an ape or human. You never see a mammal or dinosaur in the same layer as permian life. If that happened even just once, it would turn the geological column upside down, but it simply has not happened. The fossils are consistent with the time period EVERY TIME, out the millions of fossils that have been found. Please explain that.

Also do you realize how over crowded the planet must have been to accommodate ALL of that life at the same time? Less than 1% of all species to ever live the earth are alive today. Imagine adding the other 99%. It's simply not logical, and the world view is not based on reality in the least.