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Breivik: 21-yr jail term pathetic

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posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by rottenrascals
 


But after 21 years they have to make an evaluation to extend sentence, right?

So, how can you be sure that after 21 years in prison, he won't fake good behavior? They have to have some legal reason for extending it. What if he were to be a model prisoner during his time? And he declares he now repents?




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by MarioOnTheFly
 


You are posting without any understanding of the Norwegian legal system, instead reflecting an American (I assume) perspective. Rational western societies (I believe all of them except the US, which is not rational) rejects the death penalty. They do so because they believe state execution lowers the state to the level of the killer, and there is some justification for that view. Further, ALL evidence shows that in America, we have and do execute people that are posthumously proven innocent. We ignore those facts or simply don't care. Hey, what's a few dead innocent fathers and brothers so long as we get our revenge on others, right? That's all fine and dandy until its your father or brother.

Also, in Norway, the system allows the prisoner to be held indefinitely if the person is believed to be a danger to society. It is called "preventative custody." It does not matter what the time sentence is -- 5 years or 100 years -- if the person is deemed a threat, he stays behind bars. This is unlike the U.S., where even the most unrepentant criminal can walk once his sentence is complete.

In any case, the proof about which system is better is in the results. Across westernized nations the U.S. stands out for its exponentially high murder rate, shootings, rapes, etc. and leads the world (we're number 1!) in incarceration because of our idiot drug laws. The U.S. system turns petty, juvenile criminals into hardened violent criminals.

Give me the European model any day.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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I am a Norwegian and I live close to the place where the massacres took place. He will never get out of prison.

You should understand Norwegian law before you open your mouths and talk about things you don't understand.
You look like morons!

Maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years, but you can extend the sentence for five more years at a time as long as you are considered dangerous to the society. Believe me he will never get out of prison.


We don't believe in capital punishment, unlike other barbaric countries. How can anyone bring justice to a case like this? I don't believe it's possible. However, in the Grand Scheme of things, justice will be done. In the meantime, at least we haven't added to the insanity.

What our justice system has shown during this trial and sentencing is that we are a humane nation. Perhaps on a level no one else can match, nor less understand.

The justice system in America is so f***ed up, it's almost unbelievable to watch from where I stand, just saying...

Hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a rat, as Henry Emerson Fosdick once said. Just look at America. A smouldering ruin of a once great nation...

Namaste
edit on 24-8-2012 by Koyaanisqatsi because: spelling



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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Here's a link to a Norwegian newspaper (Dagbladet) :Video on page showing the prison he will be serving his sentence.

...for those interested.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Koyaanisqatsi
 





Maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years, but you can extend the sentence for five more years at a time as long as you are considered dangerous to the society. Believe me he will never get out of prison.


He may be released. We do not know what will happen to Breivik over the next 21 years. He may have a change of mind and show remorse for his actions, he may become a born again, the political climate in Norway may change. Many things could happen over the next 21 years we should not fool ourselves in to thinking that there is no chance that Breivik will be released when there clearly is a chance of this happening.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Peruvianmonk
 


You are correct. Yet we do have people in jail who have been incarcerated far longer than 21 years.

But technically, you are correct.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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Europe doesn't do life without parole?

Because that's the most fitting sentence for the murder of 77 freaking people..

I don't know how it's 21 years all together max... I mean shouldn't that apply 77 separate counts of murder?



Or does Europe not seek justice for each individual?
edit on 24-8-2012 by DaMod because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by rottenrascals
 


But after 21 years they have to make an evaluation to extend sentence, right?

So, how can you be sure that after 21 years in prison, he won't fake good behavior? They have to have some legal reason for extending it. What if he were to be a model prisoner during his time? And he declares he now repents?


Oh of course that is always a possibility, but considering the severity of his crimes I highly doubt anyone would be willing to listen to him.

Even twenty years is too little for him to be seen in a forgiving light.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Funny how quickly some people would throw out the letter of the law and execute him. If that's their standard then we might as well give him a medal for mass murder record and a nice estate by the countryside. It would be the exact same thing.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly

He even suggests...he should be executed.

Even though I'm not endorsing capital punishment,


Yes.

Yes you are.
edit on 24-8-2012 by CALGARIAN because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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He will never be realeased. Its like in the UK where they give you 25 years and review your case and then its up to whomever is in charge of the state affairs if he should be released or carry on for another fews years etc....

He will remain in prison untill he dies unless he escapes or if Norway turns into another third reich



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
Europe doesn't do life without parole?

Because that's the most fitting sentence for the murder of 77 freaking people..

I don't know how it's 21 years all together max... I mean shouldn't that apply 77 separate counts of murder?



Or does Europe not seek justice for each individual?
edit on 24-8-2012 by DaMod because: (no reason given)


How do you see that.. give a man a 1617 years in prison. Wont that drastically smell up the place at some point?

I think the Norwegian system is spot on.. Give 21 max Keep the hope alive.. nope not yet.. sorry. See ya in five pops!



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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I would like to point something out:

People in this thread have bashed other countries justice systems.

People in this thread have boasted about their justice system.

What I would like to point out is:

It doesn't really mater because the justice system of any country does not stop things like this from happening.

You can sit there and boast all you want. You can sit there and bash all you want. The fact is: that justice system still did not prevent 77 deaths from happening over there. Senseless deaths.

Our justice system here didn't deter someone from walking into a theater and shooting people down in cold blood. Nor did it stop someone from walking into a holy place and start murdering in cold blood.

You can sit there all you want and pat yourselves on the back declaring how your justice system is better than someone else's country. Or you can sit there and claim that the only solution is death for the individual that did it.

None of them works. People still get murdered, robbed, kidnapped, etc. Doesn't really mater if the numbers of that happening are lower in one place than others. The fact is: it's still happening.

As a individual, you are suppose to fear what happens if you break the law. If you don't fear that, then you'll still break it. Then you have those that simply don't care about the law at all, or themselves.

So it really doesn't mater, the fact is: crime still happens.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful
I would like to point something out:

People in this thread have bashed other countries justice systems.

People in this thread have boasted about their justice system.

What I would like to point out is:



So it really doesn't mater, the fact is: crime still happens.


So pointing out you did. What are you saying besides crimes happen?
edit on 24/8/12 by D.Wolf because: correcting coding and stuff



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:15 PM
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To be honest I expected this thread to have been started by an American. In the US its damn impressive to hand out huge 'cartoon sentences', which the guilty will never have to serve. It impresses the sheeple public into thinking that something is being done about crime. And of course at least some of those who are toughest on crime in the US (extreme right) ironically sympathise with Brejvik's ideals, even if they disagree with his actions, so lets not take their advice...

But my main point is this - its worth noting that the victims and their families are satisfied by this verdict, they respect the fact that the maximum sentence was awarded and feel quite confident that Norwiegan justice will ensure that his sentence will be extended when the time comes. Lets listen to them.

Those people who say that he might try to fake being 'cured' to get out, don't know the case or understand the man. To admit that he was wrong in some way goes against everything he stands for, he will follow through to the end for better or worse. I would say there was more chance of his being 'cured' if he had been sent to a mental institution and they had pumped him with drugs, which may have impacted on his personality in order for him to seek parole on grounds that he was better and that he regretted what he did.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by D.Wolf

Originally posted by eriktheawful
I would like to point something out:

People in this thread have bashed other countries justice systems.

People in this thread have boasted about their justice system.

What I would like to point out is:



So it really doesn't mater, the fact is: crime still happens.


So pointing out you did. What are you saying besides crimes happen?
edit on 24/8/12 by D.Wolf because: correcting coding and stuff


That people should not be going on about how their justice system is better than others (ours, their's anyones).

Think about it. People used to watch executions. They were public events. The reason was so that people can see: you do this, and this is what happens to you.
Yet people still did it even then.

We used to hang people for stealing a horse here in the US. That didn't deter people from still stealing them.

Treason a long time ago would get you hanged, drawn and quartered. For those that don't know about that, you were hung by a rope until you ALMOST died, then lowered. Then tied to a table, where your stomach was slit open and your intestines pulled out (no, that won't kill you right away either), you were then tied up to 4 horses, 1 limb to each, while still alive, and the horses were whipped to run forward, ripping you apart.........

Yet people still commited treason.

What I'm saying is: stop the bickering about who has a better or more "humane" justice system.

Instead, work together to keep from having to use it in the first place. Find a way that really works to keep another large group of people being slaughtered that actually works.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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For better or worse in this case, Norway does have one of the lowest crime rates in the world paired with some of the highest rehabilitation rates.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by GLaDOS
What kind of bull# is this. 14 years for killing ONE person and 21 years for killing 70 children? If it was up to me I would have him executed in public.


Then he would have won.


No, he wouldn't have won. He's be six feet under and a message would be sent to any other miscreants who might think of doing the same thing.

Why the hell should any criminal fear going to that resort they call a prison?

And they say Norway focuses on "rehabilitation". If he hasn't figured out by now that killing 77 people is wrong, he isn't ever going to. Are they going to have feel good group meetings where they tell him killing people is bad?

If they don't have the balls to execute him, then put him in solitary confinement for life.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by D.Wolf

Originally posted by eriktheawful
I would like to point something out:

People in this thread have bashed other countries justice systems.

People in this thread have boasted about their justice system.

What I would like to point out is:



So it really doesn't mater, the fact is: crime still happens.


So pointing out you did. What are you saying besides crimes happen?
edit on 24/8/12 by D.Wolf because: correcting coding and stuff


That people should not be going on about how their justice system is better than others (ours, their's anyones).

Think about it. People used to watch executions. They were public events. The reason was so that people can see: you do this, and this is what happens to you.
Yet people still did it even then.

We used to hang people for stealing a horse here in the US. That didn't deter people from still stealing them.

Treason a long time ago would get you hanged, drawn and quartered. For those that don't know about that, you were hung by a rope until you ALMOST died, then lowered. Then tied to a table, where your stomach was slit open and your intestines pulled out (no, that won't kill you right away either), you were then tied up to 4 horses, 1 limb to each, while still alive, and the horses were whipped to run forward, ripping you apart.........

Yet people still commited treason.

What I'm saying is: stop the bickering about who has a better or more "humane" justice system.

Instead, work together to keep from having to use it in the first place. Find a way that really works to keep another large group of people being slaughtered that actually works.


Yeah well, bickering is all over the place. It happens when people believe things. Look at the political, religious and alien topics. (for example) It's all over this forum, day in and out. Just look past the day by day jadajada and look for things to enjoy, be it entertainment or learning or what gets your ticker going. There are some pearls to look at, even in this one thread.. like the vid a few posts back touring the prison, breivik is going to be in.

When I looked at the fencing, it didn't look too solid to me.

What about that wire sticking out of that security cam. Looked like that cam was put there right before the take. You just jerk the wire and byebye cam.


You saw the inmate with the big knife?

Yeah my jaw dropped for a moment there.


As for justice systems. I guess, each country has the best one fitting for it's culture. No system is perfect. Nor theirs nor yours, as you already put forward. Any system beats having none, I think.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by D.Wolf
 


to true..

21yrs in prison is the cleanest way to make a mans life.

no need for needles or a rope.



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