Abortion as seen through a perspective of civil rights.

Originally posted by blackpeppper
"THIS IS SCIENCE:
HUMAN FETUS IS NOT A BABY (GOOGLE THE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT CHART), but a parasite because of the biological relationship that’s based on the behavior of one organism (fetus) and how it relates to the woman's body:
As a zygote, it invaded the woman's uterus using its TROPHOBLAST cells, hijacked her immune system by using NEUROKININ B, HCG and INDOLEAMINE 2, 3-DIOXYGENASE --- so her body doesn't kill it, and it can continue stealing her nutrients to survive, and causing her harm or potential death.

I was one of those parasites that tried but failed to hijack my mother's immune system. She's RH-negative I'm positive. No shots back then. If I could've lived apart from my mom the docs would've delivered me asap. My mom had previously miscarried at 5 months. Doctors knew I could die at anytime before birth yet I couldn't live without her.

I was dehumanized a bit so it wouldn't be so hard on my mom if she lost me. The antibodies had so viciously attacked her previous pregnancy it seemed only logical to prepare her for the worst. I understand and it's ok. I don't think I was ever actually called a parasite though. I was told I was seen as a foreign object that her body wanted to kill. Same thing I guess.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Well, you should have not started it at all, because abortion is a very emotional issue for most people. Threads about abortion never accomplish anything, nobody changes their mind, and usually, especially if there is very little to no moderation, these things only tend to devolve into shouting matches which amount to nothing more that "you must agree with me and believe the same way I do!" "No, you must agree with me and believe the same way I do because i'm right and you're wrong" and of course "U", "No, u" crap.

lol, its true, no one really learns, what i would hope is, they pick up some ideas and think about it, both sides. So they have wider views. We can't stop debating because we will never reach a conclusion.

i'm pretty sure some points will be sub conscious in their mind. I have learned majority still calls it a lump of cells.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Well, you should have not started it at all, because abortion is a very emotional issue for most people. Threads about abortion never accomplish anything, nobody changes their mind, and usually, especially if there is very little to no moderation, these things only tend to devolve into shouting matches which amount to nothing more that "you must agree with me and believe the same way I do!" "No, you must agree with me and believe the same way I do because i'm right and you're wrong" and of course "U", "No, u" crap.

Actually, my goal was to provide an oppourtunity to have people look at this highly contentious issue from a different perspective.

That's all.

It's not about winning the argument.

(though that'd be nice. )

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by blackpeppper

 

I love how you trying to make this into Science and and Religion, that way you can add the religions bad reputation with pro-life.

The truth is Science does not agree with either sides of abortion. So Stop picking the science that supports your side, there are science to prove that fetus is alive with brain activity.

Science supports and disagrees with both sides.


before you label me, ill label myself... An Atheist Microbiologist!

First of all, the abortion debate in the beginning never had religion involved it... religion was put there by some anti-choice people because they lacked any logical argument, used religion has a tool of authority, which is a fallacy.

I'm one of the few people who wants the abortion debate to be free from religious myths, forever.

I NEVER said science had a mind and want to pick a side of an debate, but science proves a fetus is not a baby .... THE HUMAN FETUS IS A PARASITE.

"THIS IS SCIENCE:
HUMAN FETUS IS NOT A BABY (GOOGLE THE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT CHART), but a parasite because of the biological relationship that’s based on the behavior of one organism (fetus) and how it relates to the woman's body:
As a zygote, it invaded the woman's uterus using its TROPHOBLAST cells, hijacked her immune system by using NEUROKININ B, HCG and INDOLEAMINE 2, 3-DIOXYGENASE --- so her body doesn't kill it, and it can continue stealing her nutrients to survive, and causing her harm or potential death."

galerouth.blogspot.com...

AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE REAL SCIENCE THEN PROVE IT WRONG.


who said the human fetus wasn't alive.... I just said it was a parasite, so stop grasping at straws.

I don't care what you are... THE HUMAN FETUS IS A PARASITE, AND THE SCIENCE BEHIND IT IS STRONG!

reply to post by Hefficide

By the implications of this statement, then a fetus is not a human until it is a full collection of human cells?

Um, no...that is by far some of the worst logical deduction I have ever seen.

Do you not know what an organism is???

Is there a target number of cells you have in mind so that we can all sit back and breathe a little better knowing this endless brain-fuddle of an argument has settled? If so, pick it and we can choose to agree or disagree. But this level of opportunistic ambiguity is pointless. It smacks of argument for the sake of argument.

Again, you are attempting to disregard it because you can't counter it.

I said nothing of a target number...YOU did.

Biology says nothing of a target number...YOU did.

If you want to counter modern Biology...be my guest...I'd love to see you recieve a nobel prize for doing so.

There is no ambiguity...it is defined Biology...I'm sorry if you don't understand...I don't have the time to teach you or anyone else all of modern Biology.

reply to post by windword


Wordpress...you come with a source from a blog...one person's opinion of things.

FML.

Continue to deny biology...I honestly don't care. I understand that psychological need to justify your beliefs so you don't feel like a horrible person...but it's sad.

Is a blossom from a fruit tree a tree? Or, is it a tree after it's been pollinated by a bee?

If a tree drops a seed, is that seed a tree? Is it a tree when it starts to take in nutrients from ground, or when it sprouts a root stem. Or, is it a tree when the first green leaf pops up?

There is a reason biology differentiates between plant life and animal life.

Good lord...the level of dishonesty is astounding.

reply to post by windword

Let's put it this way. Is a blossom from a fruit tree a tree? Or, is it a tree after it's been pollinated by a bee? If a tree drops a seed, is that seed a tree? Is it a tree when it starts to take in nutrients from ground, or when it sprouts a root stem. Or, is it a tree when the first green leaf pops up?

Hey, i know its not a reply to me but ill have a crack at it....

Blossom = egg cells.
Pollen = sperm cells
Bee = intercourse
Dropped seed = fertilized egg attaching to ground
Nutrients ground = Umbilical cord
Sprouting roots = developing nerves and brain activity
Green leaf = born to use its own photosynthesis.


I would say im between the Dropped Seed to Nutrients on the grounds is when the seed is a potential tree (it has a life)

Originally posted by Morningglory

Originally posted by blackpeppper
"THIS IS SCIENCE:
HUMAN FETUS IS NOT A BABY (GOOGLE THE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT CHART), but a parasite because of the biological relationship that’s based on the behavior of one organism (fetus) and how it relates to the woman's body:
As a zygote, it invaded the woman's uterus using its TROPHOBLAST cells, hijacked her immune system by using NEUROKININ B, HCG and INDOLEAMINE 2, 3-DIOXYGENASE --- so her body doesn't kill it, and it can continue stealing her nutrients to survive, and causing her harm or potential death.

I was one of those parasites that tried but failed to hijack my mother's immune system. She's RH-negative I'm positive. No shots back then. If I could've lived apart from my mom the docs would've delivered me asap. My mom had previously miscarried at 5 months. Doctors knew I could die at anytime before birth yet I couldn't live without her.

I was dehumanized a bit so it wouldn't be so hard on my mom if she lost me. The antibodies had so viciously attacked her previous pregnancy it seemed only logical to prepare her for the worst. I understand and it's ok. I don't think I was ever actually called a parasite though. I was told I was seen as a foreign object that her body wanted to kill. Same thing I guess.

Well, we were all parasites to our mothers' uterus at once, so there is no "dehumanizing" ... just science of the HUMAN reproduction; It just your mother's immune system was strong at one time, but failed to protect her -- thus, you were born.


LOL.

reply to post by beezzer


Well, I have seen this perspective before, many times. It's not a new idea, I'm sorry to say. Some people are just more eloquent about it than others.

I'm sorry for crapping on your thread, but that's what my experience has been in all the years I've had discussing this issue on the internet.

reply to post by blackpeppper

I'm one of the few people who wants the abortion debate to be free from religious myths, forever.

And yet you are the only one bringing it up.

FAIL.

reply to post by blackpeppper


Parasite is another name.... adult humans are parasite of the earth.

You can call it parasite i call it underdeveloped humans non the less.

You need to go thru the "parasite" phase to become human. Fetus is just human before its ready to have skin to protect itself from sun, and filtered nutrients before it can build an immune system.

Calling it a human once its born is just a nonsense conclusion.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well, I have seen this perspective before, many times. It's not a new idea, I'm sorry to say. Some people are just more eloquent about it than others.

I'm sorry for crapping on your thread, but that's what my experience has been in all the years I've had discussing this issue on the internet.

Well, it's new to me. And you're not crapping on it. You're actually poviding an oppourtunity for us to prove our point.

reply to post by blackpeppper


Fetus is not a foreign entity, a sperm is however, the body fight it to eliminate the invading sperm, but its also a test to refine the best sperms fro reach the egg.

Body only rejects a fertilized egg if the body thinks its not ready for pregnancy. Abortion is overriding it and getting rid of it manually.

If the female body did find the fertilized egg to be bad, it would absorb the fertilized egg into nutrients and chuck the other parts down the toilet.

reply to post by blackpeppper
The dehumanizing came from the doctors/family who were trying to prepare my mom. A harsh dose of reproductive reality for a mom but I wasn't traumatized by it one bit. I have no memory of being that trouble making parasite.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I do care about life, i think abortion as a birth control is disgusting, i'm not gonna say im 100% pro-life because of the fact, a

i was mainly referring to consensual sex, if you read my post, i mentioned that world a lot. Abortion from consensual sex is disgusting because you don't feel like it. If you shoot someone in the head, they are going to die. you can't be like "i want to shoot him but i don;t want him to die", Sex was for procreation before its a hobby.

Rape and incest is the same as pedophilia in my book.

it was Her body before pregnancy, now what ever is inside is caused by the man and her, and the man have no say? what if he was from rich background and keep the baby? i mean you had sex? sex is mainly for procreation. if you do not want babies, get it tied or have the guy you like to sleep with vasectomy.

No need to sacrifice potential lives for you enjoyment.


I'm sorry, nature is not controlled by me. You are calling something that is natural and calling it inconvenience because of the modern standards.

I just don;t want to hear excuses from abortionist... just say your are killing a potential living being that is more than a lump of cells and i'm happy. You can go ahead and do you abortions and i wont interfere. Just don't do it in denial calling it a parasite.

edit on 8/24/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

First of all, ABORTION IS BIRTH CONTROL... and I don't see how abortion can be any more disgusting than any other medical procedure on a human, there are abortion pills...are they disgusting to you,too?


SEX is not just for reproduction, but for pair bonding.... I say sex is more for that than for reproduction, I mean how many of US are going to have sex tonight to get knocked up?

"Sex was for procreation before its a hobby." I DON'T THINK SO, FOR HUMANS.

"No need to sacrifice potential lives for you enjoyment." YOU DO KNOW THAT A FETUS IS NON-SENTIENT BEING...WHY DO THE POTENTIAL MATTER, WHEN HUMANS KILL SENTIENT BEINGS ALL THE TIME?

"THIS IS SCIENCE:
HUMAN FETUS IS NOT A BABY (GOOGLE THE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT CHART), but a parasite because of the biological relationship that’s based on the behavior of one organism (fetus) and how it relates to the woman's body:
As a zygote, it invaded the woman's uterus using its TROPHOBLAST cells, hijacked her immune system by using NEUROKININ B, HCG and INDOLEAMINE 2, 3-DIOXYGENASE --- so her body doesn't kill it, and it can continue stealing her nutrients to survive, and causing her harm or potential death."



THE HUMAN FETUS IS A PARASITE...SO WHY DOES IT HAVE DOMAIN OVER THE WOMAN'S BODY IN YOUR BIOLOGICAL EXCUSE ....WHEN LEGALLY IT HAS NO RIGHT TO LIFE:


"THIS IS THE LAW:
ABORTION IS A CIVIL AND CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT SUPPORTED BY THE RIGHTS TO PRIVACY, THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT, AND THE 13TH AMENDMENT.

NO HUMAN ( that means the FETUS, too) has a right to life or any due process rights by the 14th amendment to use another human's body or body parts AGAINST their will, civil and constitutional rights: that's why you are not forced to donate your kidney---the human fetus is no exception; this is supported by the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment AND 13th amendment, which makes reproductive slavery unconstitutional.

en.wikipedia.org...

"Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. "


en.wikipedia.org...

this makes viability unconstitutional because pregnancy is not a crime.

consensual sex=/= a legal, binding contract to an unwanted fetus to live; and abortion is not murder, the unlawful killing with intent."


galerouth.blogspot.com...


pregnancy may be an inconvenience for the woman and she has a right to abort it, abortion been on this earth for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, and I just proved that the HUMAN FETUS IS A PARASITE.

Originally posted by Morningglory
reply to post by blackpeppper

 

The dehumanizing came from the doctors/family who were trying to prepare my mom. A harsh dose of reproductive reality for a mom but I wasn't traumatized by it one bit. I have no memory of being that trouble making parasite.

So I'm happy for you, what do you want from me?

I'm glad that you accepted the scientific truth, that all fetuses are parasites by science.

peace out.

reply to post by beezzer


With what?

All you have is just a claim, and argumentation. You really haven't proven anything, although you may have to people who already agree with you.

Just so you know, my own opinion is that i'm undecided on abortion. I can't see anything good about it, regardless of what decision is made. And there is a real problem with it, if you give the unborn the "right" to be born, then it overrides the mother's right to choose to be a parent or not. This in turns makes the woman a slave to her biology and forces her to give birth. not even men are forced to go this far.

To coin a Godwin, Nazi Germany pretty much did this with its women, forced them to become a vessel to carry the baby for der master race.

And i'm sorry, to me, to force a woman to give birth is just as deplorable as getting an abortion. Or as deplorable as China forcing women to have an abortion ebcause of their one child per family law.

And not even born children have full rights that adults do. Full rights don't really take into effect until a person becomes a legal adult. Children don't really have the right to free speech. A school is not a democracy. They don't really have the right to freedom of religion because their parents often force them to go to schools. They can get a job but the parent can take up to twenty five percent of their salary. They can't drive until they're sixteen. They can't vote or join the military (at least without the parents consent) until they're eighteen, and they can't drink until they're 21. They can be tried as an adult in some circumstances, but usually aren't.

They do have some special protections, especially with society's attitude towards them. You can't use violence against them under any circumstances, not even to protect yourself if one is wielding a knife or pointing a pistol at your head.. Because the reasoning is they aren't fully capable of understanding the ramifications because their brains aren't fully developed like an adult's is and therefore they can't consent. That's why adults can't have sex with them, even if it's consensual the adult is still put in jail, even if they're a week older.

But the special protections are there because there are special responsibilities because they can't consent to certain things like an adult can.

So really, you are proposing to give a special right to an unborn, which can't really use reason or give any kind of consent at all because it has no brain to a very undeveloped one. Not even born children have this kind of right.

reply to post by blackpeppper


If you want to insist on calling them parasites...fine...please do so.

But remember...they are human parasites

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by windword

 

Wordpress...you come with a source from a blog...one person's opinion of things.

So, you can't argue the science, so you argue that the hosting company that provided the band width makes the science incredible. Here are the credentials of Robert Bevins, who created the site and an explanation of its purpose.

I am a toxicologist/cell biologist, and am preparing a downloadable study guide for biology students, as well as teach at Georgetown College

Is a blossom from a fruit tree a tree? Or, is it a tree after it's been pollinated by a bee?

If a tree drops a seed, is that seed a tree? Is it a tree when it starts to take in nutrients from ground, or when it sprouts a root stem. Or, is it a tree when the first green leaf pops up?

There is a reason biology differentiates between plant life and animal life.

There's reason why they call it the "bird and the bees."

It's just sad that it has to be brought down to such a juvenile level for your comprehension.

reply to post by beezzer

Men have rights.
Women have rights.
Blacks have rights.
Asians have rights.
Hispanics have rights.
Gays have rights.
Transgender people have rights.Christians have rights.
Islamists have rights.
Hebraic followers have rights.
Animals have rights. (Very little if any - animals are treated legally like property, slaves, things)

Unborn children do not. - Beezzer

Starred and flagged - short and sweet your quote says it all.

I use to be pro-choice, before I became a real (not pretend, church, holier than thou Christian).

Life is precious.

We now have birth control, good various methods of birth control.

Women should be making sure their sexual partner(s) always wear a condom (condoms do break as my first son was conceived via a broken condom on April 1st no joke).

In addition to a condom, the woman should also be on birth control pills, shots, or using a spermicide or IUD (My second son was conceived when I had a CU7 IUD).

If a pregnancy is not wanted then take affirmative action to ensure pregnancy does not occur - BOTH parties should take precautions and be prepared to pay the piper if a "accident" occurs.

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

If a oooops accident happens, (I was a accident by the way - the product of adultery, a love affair, and do not judge my mother and father they were very kind, gentle and loving people who were only human).

I was not planned, but I was wanted. I lost my beloved mother on February 23, 1963 at the age of 9. She was 52. When she had me she was 43 and thought she was going through menopause, not able to get pregnant.

Never, not one day of those blessed 9 years I had with her did she ever make me feel unloved or unwanted. I went through a lot of multiple abuse from the time she was buried to age 20 but her love sustained me, her goodness, courage and gentle kindness gave me such a firm and solid foundation I was able to survive and go on to have a happy, productive and meaningful life.

I get up each morning at around 5 AM. Most of the world is still asleep. I get the coffee ready for my husband who has to wake up for work at 6.

I take a cup of coffee and go out to our back deck with our two dogs and sit, sipping the delicious coffee and say my morning prayers to God.

I thank Him for life, that my mother had me.
I ask Him every day to bless my mother and father and forgive them for their sins and to please allow them into Heaven.
I thank Him for giving my husband another day of life, (he's 68 with a aorta valve replacement and all the men in his family except one for the past 200 years has died before age 60).
I thank Him for my children and grand daughter.
I thank Him for having a roof over my head and a safe, comfortable place to sleep.
I pray for world peace, the violence and hatred to stop and for people to have enough food, water and shelter.
I pray that those that feel unloved, some how are shown they are loved today.
I pray for the Muslims, the Jews, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Atheists, all the people on our planet and all the animals.
I thank Him for the trees, grass and blue skies because I love looking at my grass, trees and the sky.......I pray for our planet itself.................and thank Him for making it so beautiful and ask forgiveness that man is wrecking the $hit out of it instead of up disrespecting such a beautiful little rock in space.
I thank Him for the sun coming up, our star, bringing warmth, life and light to us.
I thank Him for the coffee and food I am lucky enough to afford this day.

I ask Him to please come down and stomp the $hit out of the wicked that oppress, abuse and misuse their power and hurt others, particularly the children and animals that are at the mercy of the rest of us.

I pray for those babies that will never be held, kissed, feel their mama's cheek on theirs and told, "I love you."

I pray for all those babies and animals that will meet their death this day, that He take their souls and comfort them..............as they were shown no love or mercy here on Earth, may they know unending love and comfort within a merciful God's arms this day for all eternity.

Some say the soul does not enter the body until after such and such a date because then that eases their conscience.

That's how people are able to do the horrible things they do by playing head games.

Life is life.

Macrocosm/Microcosm: Once the sperm burrows through that one precious egg, a big bang occurs on a microscopic level - the soul (I believe) is popped in.

I use to be for pro-choice.

I still think people should at least be responsible and use birth control.

At most, read God's word - you hurt a child and you will have to deal with the wrath of God.

Everyone has their own opinion - but when it involves the murder of a innocent, I stand fast.



Description of video: Where there is murder, mayhem, violence, hatred, disrespect you will find the root cause is satan, lucifer, the fallen angel who requires sacrifice. It's in the blood.

We kill, (sacrifice) our own babies and wonder why the world is in the way it is in.

Because we have lost sight of what is sacred, what is holy what is good.

I use to laugh at "preachers" preaching wicked ways, blah blah blah...........well, come to find out, we reap what we sow and we're sowing as a whole a bunch of not so good a crop.

Lastly, I was not planned, I was a mistake, but I am very thankful I was given life. Not one day goes by that I am not grateful for being allowed the gift of life. From my mother's one "mistake" came me, then three handsome sons, who all turned out kind, decent human beings. From one of those sons a daughter, my only grandchild. She is so beautiful, so sweet, so kind and wonderful.

I always told my sons, if you play you pay..................take responsibility for your actions. In this society of instant gratification, nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions any more. Like a bunch of spoiled children.

Lastly - I believe strongly that satan requires human sacrifice and the abortion industry has supplied him with his due. We all that do not take a clear stand on this are a part of it, we own it.

Last year my replies on ATS were different, I was pro-choice for other women.

I have been raped when quite young and was two days late for my period (very unusual) during those 48 hours I had a lot of thinking to do about "what if"?

Well, I decided if anyone has 50% of my bloodline, my DNA in them - they're damn well going to live even if the father is a jerk. Thankfully I did not become pregnant nor get a disease.

But as one who was not planned, (can't say not wanted because my mother treated me like the sun rose and set just for me, I was her world, her everything) but again, I was not meant to be yet here I am 59 1/2 years later and thankful for today, each day.

Life is precious, you either defend or destory......................those are your two choices.

Yes I have two rescue dogs and if someone is pregnant and wants to give a 59 year old woman a unwanted baby u2u me and I will take one baby to put my money where my mouth is.

I cannot guarantee I will live another 20 years to raise him/her - but I will try.