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Abortion as seen through a perspective of civil rights.

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posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by luciddream
 


It is your opinion that that is the "shape" of things and when, in your opinion, "it's over."




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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this from a "pro-lifer"


but you are fine with killing babies


funny how the same folks "are fine with killing babies" when they are
foreign, black, brown,yellow, and red
and non xtian
and for fiscal-economic [in addition to political] purposes to boot

these are the same folks criticizing what they call "rape culture" among islamics


ZOMG!!! THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE COUNTRY
BY POPPING OUT MORE AND MORE BABIES UNTILL THEY OUTNUMBER US!!!!!ZOMG!!!


understand why they want to force rape victims into being breeding units, now?

and the majority of those babies will be given up for adoption,
making them vulnerable to all manner of exploitation and abuse

and considering the same crowd is all for taking away "entitlements"...

also, if these pseudo advocates of "life" and fetus rights really cared about the poor little things why do they carry them around in jars of formaldehyde in order to shock [and traumatize] school children with them,
instead of giving them a proper burial?


NOTE TO OP:

the above isn't directed at you, beez; but at the hipocrites that have taken advantage of your kindness
[and your thread as well]
these fanatical followers of what can be considered from a historical viewpoint death cults

do not care about anybody's rights

all they care about is power and control:
in brief DOMINION over everybody else



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Golf66
 
If we're going to resort to just going by what the law says, then we're all doomed.

The law had a very clear idea about women voting a while back.
The law endorsed Jim Crow laws.

Through the work, sacrifice and patience of many people these laws were changed.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


There is no scientific concensus of when life begins.

If you see that question on a test, look around. Are you at Oral Roberts University?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Golf66
 


I notice you didn't post a single source that claims that biological life doesn't begin at conception.

You are talking about personhood...not human life...human life follows all the same biological rules as all other life.

Biological life begins at conception. If you disagree with me, I am more than happy to take it to the debate forum and formally debate that Biological life begins at conception.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


Biological life begins at conception. If you disagree with me, I am more than happy to take it to the debate forum and formally debate that Biological life begins at conception.


I'd pay money to see this debate!

Really.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


A cell is biological life.

2nd line



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 





Just to get this right, your no pro-life, but in the instance that the woman is raped or incest is a factor, your more than happy to kill that life? The fault in this argument is that your judging rights to abortion based on how the baby was conceived, Like it makes a difference!?



I do care about life, i think abortion as a birth control is disgusting, i'm not gonna say im 100% pro-life because of the fact, a baby resulting froma rap eis going to live a horrible life unless the mother is rich enough and want to take care of it.

i was mainly referring to consensual sex, if you read my post, i mentioned that world a lot. Abortion from consensual sex is disgusting because you don't feel like it. If you shoot someone in the head, they are going to die. you can't be like "i want to shoot him but i don;t want him to die", Sex was for procreation before its a hobby.

Rape and incest is the same as pedophilia in my book.




I disagree, when we start in that territory (removing rights from the individual) its almost like saying a woman has the right to demand her partner get a vasectomy. Lets avoid that way of thinking by giving people ownership of their own body. A man may have his opinion - And it usually counts for something, but he has no right when it comes to HER body/life.


it was Her body before pregnancy, now what ever is inside is caused by the man and her, and the man have no say? what if he was from rich background and keep the baby? i mean you had sex? sex is mainly for procreation. if you do not want babies, get it tied or have the guy you like to sleep with vasectomy.

No need to sacrifice potential lives for you enjoyment.




The option isnt your's to give, thought i would just throw that in there.


Hopefully it will change in the future and the rights would be both the dad and the mom. Well, we see a lot of changes in the past life, how black people use to = trash by some, well it did change a bit now. lol




BUT if the women's decision is different from Man's then the Man should have NO responsibility and should just leave the women who does not want to bear you children, she is clearly not your interest.

Agreed.


Hey even the opposite sometimes have the agree on something!




You can have your own biological kids and adopt to. Its a bit funny that you can care about millions of lives when it comes to abortion but you cant care for someone who is already on this planet and in need of some love and a good home? Maybe your heart isn't as big as you think it is?


I'm sorry, i can't love a adopted child as much as my own. it would probably be true for 90% of the population.
There are lot of reasons why i don't want to adopt, my genes my genes my genes, and i can have more kids!

Those others kids would not be there if they parents did not want prepare them(ties/vasectomy) before enjoying themselves.

i'm not a life lover like the pro-life crew, but i do hate when a potential life is destroyed because of inconvenience and especially calling it a lump of cell before birth(my scientist side hates that).




Why tie your tubes when there is a wide range of contraception around.


Hey i have no problem with contraception(pills, w/e flots your boat!), as long the contraception is not abortion.





Childbirth is very inconvenient to women, for many around the world with no access to medical care it results in death. Not to mention how the female anatomy has to change in order to harbour and grow another human being for 9months, and, as soon as they;'re born, physically look after them without any sort of break. That comment is pretty ignorant, actually a bit of offensive.. This is why men shouldn't really be having such strong opinions on a subject that will never effect them.



I'm sorry, nature is not controlled by me. You are calling something that is natural and calling it inconvenience because of the modern standards.

I just don;t want to hear excuses from abortionist... just say your are killing a potential living being that is more than a lump of cells and i'm happy. You can go ahead and do you abortions and i wont interfere. Just don't do it in denial calling it a parasite.
edit on 8/24/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You've kind of cornered yourself by making such an issue over the definition of life. It served your purposes here. But now if you go to get a haircut, or you shave? You're just as guilty as if you'd had an abortion.

See? Definitives don't work. Absolutism is a trap.

~Heff



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You've kind of cornered yourself by making such an issue over the definition of life. It served your purposes here. But now if you go to get a haircut, or you shave? You're just as guilty as if you'd had an abortion.

See? Definitives don't work. Absolutism is a trap.

~Heff


Wouldn't that only hold true if we were planeria?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Dunno Beezer. It works just as well as any metaphor.. spit, etc. And it's G-rated. But I could adjust it and say that using flea spray on the dog is genocide, by those standards.

Again, absolutism loses.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by blackpeppper
 



REALLY? You called a fetus, a baby... that's a misnomer and an oxymoron to the human development chart, thus you wasn't using science, but an appeal to emotion.


I'm calling it a baby because baby is a non-scientific term. I am not differentiating between zygote or fetus...thus I use the generic term of baby which is defined as a young being.



and abortion lowers CRIME. It's from Freakonomics.


Well, if it's from Freakanomics....it MUST be true.



Stop lying to these people about the science of reproduction, love and using myths like Christianity to force them not to abort


Christianity...who is using Christiantiy???

Oh right...just another pro-choicer trying to move the discusstion over to religion.

That's a sign that you are losing.



First of all, I would like to give you credit for admitting that you are pro-life-schizophrenic-fascist and LYING to people about the science of human reproduction and using appeal to emotion fallacy: calling a zygote, embryo or fetus... a baby ( a violation of the human development chart) to induce an emotional response, in hopes that the woman is dumb enough to believe you and NOT abort.

It's the same tactic to force a man to be there for a pregnancy, when is not legally liable to do so.

that's what you are doing, is a crime against humanity, in my opinion.

2nd, that Freakanomics cop-out is not going to fly with me .... prove them wrong or STFU about it.

3rd, I didn't say YOU used the christianity myth to mindfrak women out of aborting ... but it's true, a lot of you pro-life-schizophrenic-fascists do MISINTERPRET and MIND-QUOTE the bible to mindfrak stupid women from aborting.


WHAT DO YOU THINK "40 DAYS FOR LIFE" IS ABOUT? It's lying to women using the mythical bible to mindfrak them out of aborting and being intellectually dishonest by calling fetuses ... babies.

www.40daysforlife.com...

WATCH THIS EDUCATIONAL MOVIE ABOUT THE BIBLE AND ABORTION: www.youtube.com...


THE HUMAN FETUS IS A PARASITE: galerouth.blogspot.com...



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


There is no scientific concensus of when life begins.

If you see that question on a test, look around. Are you at Oral Roberts University?


Unbelievable.

Where does the Biological life cycle begin...crack open any modern day Biology book to find the answer to this. I'll even give you some online sources.

www.biology-online.org...

Life cycle

Definition

noun

The whole life history of an organism, usually depicted through a series of developmental stages (e.g. from zygote into a mature form where another zygote can be produced) in which an organism goes through.

Life cycle entails the course of development of an organism, i.e. from the time of inception to growth to finally maturity when an organism can viably produce another of its kind.


www.britannica.com...


the individual animal begins with the fusion of male and female sex cells (gametes); it grows to reproductive maturity; and it then produces gametes, at which point the cycle begins anew (assuming that fertilization takes place).




Willful ignorance only makes you ignorant...it doesn't help prove your point.

It's really sad to see people that I respect on ATS pulling the same crap they constantly call out...willful ignorance.

I'm sorry that you don't like that biological life begins at inception...I'm sorry it forces you to admit that you support the killing of humans...but that is just the facts.

That is why the pro-choice crowd has moved to an argument of PERSONHOOD instead of LIFE...because they know they can't dispute BIOLOGY.



But if you insist on playing this game...then tell me what arbitrary point you want to pick in the life cycle to declare something "human life".



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by blackpeppper
 


I love how you trying to make this into Science and and Religion, that way you can add the religions bad reputation with pro-life.

The truth is Science does not agree with either sides of abortion. So Stop picking the science that supports your side, there are science to prove that fetus is alive with brain activity.

Science supports and disagrees with both sides.



before you label me, ill label myself... An Atheist Microbiologist!



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You've kind of cornered yourself by making such an issue over the definition of life. It served your purposes here. But now if you go to get a haircut, or you shave? You're just as guilty as if you'd had an abortion.

See? Definitives don't work. Absolutism is a trap.

~Heff


You are not the first person to try to use that argument.

Please go quote me where I say that a single human cell is a living organism.

Single human cells are not a living organism...the living organism is the collection of human cells...again...basic biology.

This is just more distortion because you guys can't counter that human life begins at conception...so instead, you use illogical arguments such as this.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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This is a thread on abortion seen through a perspective of civil rights.

Just sayin'.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by blackpeppper
 



LYING to people about the science of human reproduction


Point out my lie.

Calling a fetus a baby isn't a lie...baby isn't a scientific or medical term. I didn't call a fetus an infant, I didn't call it a adolescent...I called it a baby.

A baby is defined as a "young" memeber of the group...a fetus is pretty damn young.


Biological life begins at conception...every biology book will tell you this...why do you deny science???



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Single human cells are not a living organism...the living organism is the collection of human cells...again...basic biology.

This is just more distortion because you guys can't counter that human life begins at conception...so instead, you use illogical arguments such as this.


By the implications of this statement, then a fetus is not a human until it is a full collection of human cells?

Wish then wash. One cell isn't life - so how many?

Is there a target number of cells you have in mind so that we can all sit back and breathe a little better knowing this endless brain-fuddle of an argument has settled? If so, pick it and we can choose to agree or disagree. But this level of opportunistic ambiguity is pointless. It smacks of argument for the sake of argument.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Well, you should have not started it at all, because abortion is a very emotional issue for most people. Threads about abortion never accomplish anything, nobody changes their mind, and usually, especially if there is very little to no moderation, these things only tend to devolve into shouting matches which amount to nothing more that "you must agree with me and believe the same way I do!" "No, you must agree with me and believe the same way I do because i'm right and you're wrong" and of course "U", "No, u" crap.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 



Any one of our cells is alive, but without the whole body, they cannot meaningfully reproduce. Not into a whole new organism, not into a whole new human. You need to combine an egg cell and a sperm cell to form a fertilized egg in order to begin the process of cell division that produces a new human.

Does this mean that life begins at conception? Again, not quite. Sperm cells are alive. Egg cells are alive. Sperm cells and egg cells have all the features of life. Sperm and egg cells combined to form a fertilized egg that can divide.

Egg cells and sperm cells are alive.

Life doesn’t begin at conception, not at least, life as defined by science. Life continues.

When people ask when life begins, they are asking a metaphysical question. When does the soul enter the body?

teachingsapiens.wordpress.com...


Let's put it this way.

Is a blossom from a fruit tree a tree? Or, is it a tree after it's been pollinated by a bee?

If a tree drops a seed, is that seed a tree? Is it a tree when it starts to take in nutrients from ground, or when it sprouts a root stem. Or, is it a tree when the first green leaf pops up?







 
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