Abortion from a mans point of view

To be honest, I don't even think that the government should have any say in whether or not women should be allowed to have an abortion. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with it we should not be controlling other peoples lives.

reply to post by windword


So if you were conceived by a rapist, then you believe that you should have been killed cause your the problem? I see, you just hate children then that are unexpected, and from rape.

reply to post by Seektruthalways1


IF my mother were raped, and, IF she chose to abort, then I wouldn't know about it, would I? Why cry over what never was?

The bigger question is, why do you worship human biology?

Originally posted by Heresy

I have gotten pregnant twice after proper use of contraceptives. Ask a bunch of women in a mother and toddler group how many of them were concieved while using contraceptives according to instructions. Shockingly high.

Obviously I wasn't referring to contraceptives because if you want to ensure that pregnancy won't occur, you wouldn't rely on contraceptives.

Well no, as a clutch of undeveloped cells with no brain isn't a child, something that endlessly evades the comprehension of pro lifers.

I used the term "their child". People use the term "my child" or "our child" to refer to their own children no matter if they are a baby or adult....and even after they are dead. You can use biology as a tool to attempt to reduce ANY living thing into a blob of cells that is not worthy of any rights. It's what slaveowners did to slaves, what Muslims do to women, and what proponents of killing babies AFTER they have been born do. The fact of the matter is that human beings, from the time of conception, are constantly developing and changing mentally and physically. Humans are NOT less worthy of rights just because they are at a certain stage of the development process.

Originally posted by Heresy

Women put in a vast amount more effort into creating a child.

The creation of your child involves, as you put it, 'five minutes of grunting'. But wait...you don't think 'a clump of cells' is a child. That means, by your logic, that the sole creators of children are women....through their chosen oh-so agonizing 9 months of housing a fetus.

So you are basically stating that a man's five minutes of fun equates to zero consequences to him, but that but the woman gets stuck with a couple of decades of financial and emotional commitment

If you believe that it's a woman's RIGHT to avoid the consequences of her 'fun', then WHY should men be obligated to be responsible for their actions? Furthermore, why should he be responsible for her choice to give birth? Don't you think women should be financially independent and take responsibility for their choices?

complete with nine months of discomfort that can make her extremely ill, endanger her life and damage her long term health and future prospects of finding a decent man after (women are way less desirable with someone elses kid in tow).

The discomfort that comes along with pregnancy is a part of her choice not to have an abortion....ya know, what she decided to do with 'her body'. It's funny how people like yourself think you are entitled to a 'decent man'.

Not to mention that if there is no long term prior relationship, most women would get squat in the way of child support as unmarried dads are notorious non payers.

Again, why should men be required to pay for women's choices?

A guy doesn't get to tell a woman what she can do with HER body. We don't control other adults bodies. If you could do that, think of the implications

First off, abortion is NOT a mere issue of women's bodies and it never will be. If abortion is only a matter of the woman's choice, then the fathers should have absolutely no obligation to take responsibility for her choice.

A 'right' to control another person in any way is just mad. Sticking your penis into someone doesn't mean you get to order them around.

A father wishing to protect the life of his child is 'mad'...yet you think it's your 'right' to decide if your child will live or die. You think others have a financial obligation for YOUR choices. Furthermore, abortion is usually a service of someone else. What if, hypothetically, you wanted an abortion and no one would perform one for you? Would they be denying you your rights? No one FORCED you to get pregnant in the first place, unless you were raped. Otherwise, women have FULL control over their reproductive sytem, whether abortion is legal or not. Women are not helpless children.

Originally posted by Heresy
reply to post by luciddream

 

If its a consensual sex between 2 people, BOTH should have the right over the child.

Having given birth a couple of times.. NO, they shouldn't. Chilldbearing is incredibly painful, pregnancy is just awful for many, and birth occassionally life endangering for women even in developed countries. The mans part in it is five minutes of grunting. It does not give a man the right to dictate what happens his sexual partners body if she gets knocked up. NOT his body.

I grew up when the thought of men having any say in a pregnancy was unheard of. Things have changed.
Excuse me for my lack of sympathy, but to a girl who never had a baby describing childbearing as incredibly painful may just be enough to make her chose abortion. I have worked with hundreds of women who gave birth, plus have friends with children and nobody I know whined about it being incredibly painful. So thanks for scaring people. Hey, I hear abortions can hurt like hell BTW.

You say NOT his body, I say the baby is NOT your body.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Thanks for bringing that up. I too am sick of the whining. My own mother and a lot of other women have said that childbearing is the easiest part of being a parent. Everyone experiences at least a little bit of discomfort every day. Many are living with pain every day. Some are blind or missing limbs yet you don't hear a lot of them whining and feeling sorry for themselves and claiming that their rights are being violated just because they are experiencing pain. The people acting like pregnancy, a part of the natural reproductive process, is some atrocity for them should be ashamed. I would be embarrassed if I were them.

I read posts that say the baby isn't alive until it takes its first breath or it ok to get an abortion as long as the fetus doesn't feel pain and I want to respond to this.

Life begins when you are made and it ends when you die.

They murder the baby because it is half the person who raped the woman. Doesn't it make sense to look at it from the other point of view, that since the baby is half the mother as well, it should be allowed to live? Why go to the hideous extreme of murdering the baby just because it's half of the raper?

People for some strange, stupid reason, truly believe that the innocent little baby doesn't matter, that it's the woman's choice what to do with HER body. She does have a right to do what she wants with HER body, but murdering a baby developing inside of her is a totally different story.

WHY??? That's my main thing: WHY!!! Why is it that the ONLY solution for millions of women a year is to MURDER the baby? WHY??? Why not drop them off at a safe haven if you absolutely do not want the child? Carrying a baby inside of you for 9 months that is HALF YOU is a lot better than murdering it just to get rid of it.

The love of this world has gone so cold that it is actually more frowned upon for a person to allow an innocent little baby to survive than it is to MURDER them just to get them out of the way. And don't give me that stuff about how it's just a group of cells because we all know full darn well that if they found one little tiny single-cell life form on Mars, it would be broadcast around the entire world that they have found life on another planet.

In the future, those babies will be able to grow up in the presence and glory of our Lord, in a perfect world with no sighing, no fear, no hunger, no sorrow, no tears, no abuse, no lying, no stealing; the only reality they will ever know is better than any human being could ever imagine. I am thankful to God for that.

reply to post by jeramie

In the future, those babies will be able to grow up in the presence and glory of our Lord, in a perfect world with no sighing, no fear, no hunger, no sorrow, no tears, no abuse, no lying, no stealing; the only reality they will ever know is better than any human being could ever imagine. I am thankful to God for that.

Thank you for showing us that the main component to the pro-life, anti abortion argument is religion and religious bias. That same bias that places a woman's role as one that is subservient and beholding to men.

It seems as if you believe that God assigns a soul to every fertilized egg. If so, then doesn't that soul belong to God, not to humanity? Let God worry about what is God's and let women worry about what is theirs, as in "their body!"

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by jeramie

 

In the future, those babies will be able to grow up in the presence and glory of our Lord, in a perfect world with no sighing, no fear, no hunger, no sorrow, no tears, no abuse, no lying, no stealing; the only reality they will ever know is better than any human being could ever imagine. I am thankful to God for that.

Thank you for showing us that the main component to the pro-life, anti abortion argument is religion and religious bias. That same bias that places a woman's role as one that is subservient and beholding to men.

It seems as if you believe that God assigns a soul to every fertilized egg. If so, then doesn't that soul belong to God, not to humanity? Let God worry about what is God's and let women worry about what is theirs, as in "their body!"

edit on 15-9-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)

This is one aspect of the debate, the religious aspect.

This issue can be debated scientifically, legally and ethnically as well.

Bet you never considered this point of view.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


That is one twisted stretch of the imagination. Sorry, I don't see it that way. Forcing or coercing a woman to give birth is slavery and tyranny.

Allowing a woman self determination over her own bodily functions is freedom and dignity.

It seems as if you believe that God assigns a soul to every fertilized egg. If so, then doesn't that soul belong to God, not to humanity? Let God worry about what is God's and let women worry about what is theirs, as in "their body!"

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


My soul is my soul and that does not negate that it is God's property whether I am an embryo or an adult. The mother and the child are both God's property. Humanity owns no one.

Ethically - A women destroying her child is no different than a woman killing her husband or mother. This MY BODY stuff gets very old because it completely denies the existence and worth of the child inside her body.

I ask you to watch the following video with the thought in mind of how abortion had impacted our culture, keeping in mind that twenty-two percent of all U.S. pregnancies end in abortion:

• Nearly half of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and about four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion.[1] Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]

www.guttmacher.org...

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady

It seems as if you believe that God assigns a soul to every fertilized egg. If so, then doesn't that soul belong to God, not to humanity? Let God worry about what is God's and let women worry about what is theirs, as in "their body!"

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

My soul is my soul and that does not negate that it is God's property whether I am an embryo or an adult. The mother and the child are both God's property. Humanity owns no one.

I own my thoughts and actions, it's called responsibility.

Ethically - A women destroying her child is no different than a woman killing her husband or mother. This MY BODY stuff gets very old because it completely denies the existence and worth of the child inside her body.

In your humble opinion. An embryo is NOT a child. This "MY BODY" argument may be old to you, but it's that pesky truth that pro-lifers can't get around.

I ask you to watch the following video with the thought in mind of how abortion had impacted our culture, keeping in mind that twenty-two percent of all U.S. pregnancies end in abortion:

• Nearly half of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and about four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion.[1] Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]

www.guttmacher.org...

edit on 9/15/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)

Oh boy, fear of Islam tactics. Don't get an abortion because "the Muslim population is growing and soon we will be out numbered," is a loser argument.

reply to post by Charmed707

I hate to admit I agree with many of the points you raise. The only reason I regret agreeing? Your delivery is harsh (no pun intended) and your (seeming) lack of respect for other ATS’ers and women is not appreciated. Again, only my opinion so don’t get in a twist over it.

So - Now I'll go out on a limb here. Honestly? I do get a gripe in my gut when women have 'issues' with 'men' not 'paying' for their 'pleasure' when she's with child.

A child should NEVER be used as a glass slipper that fits your foot to gain you a Prince. A baby is something that, in the wrong circumstances will turn you into a pumpkin - in more ways that one.

Take charge of your life. Control your own body to prevent birth. Full stop.

THAT BEING SAID - PLEASE READ ON!

I know there are always the cases of the ‘broken rubber’, missed pill, and then the horrific tragedies of rape and incest, etc. In those cases? It's still up to the woman. Period.

More to say - will wait for later....

peace

reply to post by windword

Oh boy, fear of Islam tactics. Don't get an abortion because "the Muslim population is growing and soon we will be out numbered," is a loser argument.

22 percent of all pregnancies in the U.S. end in abortion. My point is that our culture can not sustain itself. It will change and abortion is hastening the change. You want to call it fear of Islam, that is your problem.

BTW my sister and her family are Muslims and perhaps in one way they would be a better society - they don't abort their children.

Deny Ignorance.

To put it as simply as possible, if men could get pregnant, there would be no debate about abortion. It would be a given that it was legal, and would never be in question.

Women's reproductive rights are a big issue with me. I am not a man, but my husband and I are both pro-choice.

Whether it be an accidental pregnancy or the product of rape or incest, Nature dictates that the women has to carry the child within her body. She has to endure nausea, vomiting, risk of complications, and ultimately hours or even days of pain (and that's just the short list). Once it's born statistics say that many men will cut and run (or disappear or be incarcerated if this was the result of a crime) and she will become the sole parent. This is why it is her responsibility, and her's alone. Her body = her choice. Her lifetime responsibility. She can count on no one but herself. She must shelter, feed, and nurture that child for 18 years or more. She may give up a career or a degree. She may become trapped in the system that rarely provides enough to survive on and rarely provides the tools and childcare to achieve self sufficiency. If she's lucky and has the resources and the tenacity she can provide the kind of future for her children that she once dreamed of for herself. Only she knows the bounds of her own strength. She must ask herself, "Can I endure this?" and "What is best for the future child?"

Men can take the best possible route and voluntarily share in the financial and emotional upbringing of their children. They have that choice. It's a good one. Otherwise the most these children will see is forced financial assistance, if they are lucky, and sporadic contact with Dad (or hopefully none at all if it was a crime). Men also have the ability to say "no" or to protect themselves if they do not want that responsibility or that situation to arise. They do not, however, have the right to force a woman to become a human incubator and risk her health and well being to produce them a child against her will. Women are not property. You do not own a woman and you do not own her uterus. You do not "own" the child, either.

Women would not need abortions nearly as much if we stopped closing clinics and removing their access to birth control. Even the morning after pill is financially out of reach for many (unless you've got some odd idea that flushing an egg is abortion. In that case we'd be persecuting women every month.). Getting rid of abortion will not stop abortion. It will only make it more dangerous and prolong/create suffering. The anti-choice crowd creates its own self-fulfilling prophesy. Birth Control = Bad = More Pregnancies = More Abortions = Bad = More Control = Less Birth Control. It makes no sense, but it sure makes for good posturing and outrage.

"Abolition of a woman's right to abortion, when and if she wants it, amounts to compulsory maternity: a form of rape by the State." - Edward Abbey

Originally posted by silo13

I hate to admit I agree with many of the points you raise. The only reason I regret agreeing? Your delivery is harsh (no pun intended)

My delivery is honest and straight to the point. No need to sugar coat anything.

and your (seeming) lack of respect for other ATS’ers and women is not appreciated. Again, only my opinion so don’t get in a twist over it.

I AM a woman. I personally find pro-choice rhetoric insulting to women. They talk as if women have absolutely no control over their reproductive system unless abortion is legal. Men are not treated as helpless children.

I know there are always the cases of the ‘broken rubber’, missed pill, and then the horrific tragedies of rape and incest, etc. In those cases? It's still up to the woman. Period.

If someone is using contraceptives, then they know that they're not 100% effective and are still taking the risk of a pregnancy. That's not a good excuse. There's absolutely no reason a father should have to accept the termination of his child just because the mother is too childish to accept the consequences of her actions. Same goes for any relatives of the child.

Originally posted by windword

Forcing or coercing a woman to give birth is slavery and tyranny.

The ONLY possible scenario in which a woman can be 'forced' into a pregnancy is if she is raped. Women are in full control of their reproductive system whether abortion is legal or not. Bearing a child is slavery and tyranny? Are you kidding me?! I don't even know what to say to a claim that extremly absurd and stupid except that you need to grow up and stop playing the victim card.

Allowing a woman self determination over her own bodily functions is freedom and dignity.

...because she had absolutely nothing to do with the state of her body in the first place? Along with freedom comes responsibility. It's not the job of the government to ensure that anyone has a 'right' to avoid the consequences of their actions.