Abortion from a mans point of view

Originally posted by Hefficide

Not for nothin'... but if men bore the responsibility of carrying children in their bodies it is my firm belief that not only would abortion be legal, but it would be fully subsidized, there would be dozens more ways to achieve it, and clinics would be as commonplace as McDonalds in the western world.

Just my .02 cents.

~Heff

If that were true in any way, shape, or form, millions of men around the world would not have died for strangers to have freedoms that they would never experience.

If men were even half as bad as your statement claims, rape and pillage would still be common place. Freedom of speech would extend as far as your range to kill. And, little things like unconditional rights would be nothing but a pipe dream hiding in a cave some place.

As a moderator, I'm kind of disappointed in your assessment of half of the human species. Not only does it lay waste to the efforts of many good men, it is statements like that that give future men the silly idea that they should stop trying.

reply to post by peck420


Actually I am a man and being honest with myself. History shows that men tend to vote along gender lines. This is why women have only had the vote for less than 100 years.

This particular subject becomes much more difficult due to religious doctrine. But my assertion stands. If men carried babies, and not women, this conversation would be topographically far different.

After all, even in your reply you mentioned men killing... The same bible that is used to dismiss abortion rights also says "Thou shalt not kill" and men have been pretty one sided on interpreting that as well.

FTR: My "moderator" status does not rob me of my right to an opinion or my right to voice it. I'm a member of ATS too.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


So as a mod your opinion is right on GP ?
Why don't you do your job the women have hijacked the thread and are off topic !
The question was what do men think about the issue it is not ment to be a debate on the issue.
There are half a dozen other post on the issue.
Can't wait for your B.S. answer.

Originally posted by Charmed707
Humans are not dictated merely by instinct as intellectually inferior animals are. Humans have the ability to make rational choices based on consequences.

Did you really just call animals inferior? /faceplam.

You have choices in how you handle your sex drive via your actions. Everyone has the need to eat as well...but you can make healthy or unhealthy choices.

And humans handle this "choice" so well we are seeing epidemic levels of obese people because they just cant seem to pick the salad. Go figure.

Funny how you allude to progress (your 'disgrace to the 21st century' comment) when you're the one suggesting that it's perfectly just for humans to be ruled merely by their primal, animalistic instincts.

I never said it was okay to be "ruled" by your primal needs - But i did say they are apart of human nature. And being apart of our nature they drive us want sex, the longer we go without, the more we need it until you reach "breaking point"
Plus, in a society that is as sexed up as the west, its hard to say no when someone's practically thrown themselves at you - But im not sure you could comprehend that experience as im sure you repel your peers.

If the government DID start offering financial compensation for sterilization, people like yourself would be the first to line up.

Screw the government - I would personally pay for them to sterilize folks like you. The only time i dont feel bad about the idea of eugenics is when it comes to daft people like yourself who cant even understand basic human needs.

The fact that you think ATS is a great educational tool speaks volumes.

Obviously dont frequent the other sections of this site do you? Like the science part? Course you dont, you're just here to convert people to your medieval way of thinking.

I AM a woman. Most polls on abortion show men to be slightly more 'pro-choice' than women, so your suggestion is self-defeating. 9 months in a lifetime is NOT a long time. Not to mention how it can be avoided in the first place. I have never bared a child, but most mothers say that carrying the child for 9 months is the easiest part of being a parent. Stop playing the victim.

"Never bared a child but hey, i bet its a walk in the park"

Fool. I doubt you're a woman with those comments. And i'd like to see those polls.

Anyone who is shocked by a pregnancy after having sex while fertile clearly has a few screws loose.

You're forgetting the very simple notion of IT HAPPENS.


Screw you pro-lifers, i have yet to be given a proper reason as to why you people think you can tell other people what they can and cant do in their lives. Freedom of religion? Freedom to bare arms? How about freedom to live your life without other people sticking their big fat noses in screaming bloody murder.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


My answer is that you tabled a discussion and all ATS members have full right to voice their opinions in an ATS thread. Male and female. We do not discriminate here.

Female opinions cannot "hijack" a thread. If nothing else their comments serve to provide the thread with more diversity and variance of opinion. And if they veer off topic... Well there's an alert button for that.

No staff member is going to silence women any more than they'd silence men.

You wished to discuss abortion from a mans point of view. I'm a man, giving my point of view. If a woman wishes to come along and ask about it, or comment upon it... Well that's the way this place works. As long as everybody stays within The Terms And Conditions of ATS it's all fair.

Since my moderator status is being brought up more than once, this might help.

~Heff

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
reply to post by Hefficide

 

So as a mod your opinion is right on GP ?
Why don't you do your job the women have hijacked the thread and are off topic !
The question was what do men think about the issue it is not ment to be a debate on the issue.
There are half a dozen other post on the issue.
Can't wait for your B.S. answer.

^ Lol, "freedom of speech, but only if were agreeing!"

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Did you really just call animals inferior? /faceplam.

You seriously need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

And humans handle this "choice" so well we are seeing epidemic levels of obese people because they just cant seem to pick the salad. Go figure.

When they make unhealthy/stupid choices, they are choosing the consequences that go along with it. It's as simple as that. Next, there will be people like yourself claiming that fatties have a 'right' to diet pills.

And being apart of our nature they drive us want sex, the longer we go without, the more we need it until you reach "breaking point"

That sounds like it came straight from the mouth of a rapist.

Plus, in a society that is as sexed up as the west, its hard to say no when someone's practically thrown themselves at you

There are choices and there are consequences. Grow up. You can't act like a helpless child all of your life.

But im not sure you could comprehend that experience as im sure you repel your peers.

Parents really should moniter their children's internet usage.

Screw the government - I would personally pay for them to sterilize folks like you.

So you don't think people have a right to their own body.

The only time i dont feel bad about the idea of eugenics is when it comes to daft people like yourself who cant even understand basic human needs.

People who don't understand their own reproductive system and/or behave like animals need to be cleansed from the gene pool.

Obviously dont frequent the other sections of this site do you? Like the science part?

The 'science part'.... Oh lord....

Course you dont, you're just here to convert people to your medieval way of thinking.

Yeah, I really expect to 'convert' people. I don't conform a certain mindset simply because it is en vogue at the time.

Fool. I doubt you're a woman with those comments. And i'd like to see those polls.

Yeah, I guess it's hard for you to imagine a woman who doesn't whine and play the victim because it's so unlike yourself, but maybe if you got out more, you wouldn't be so surprised. Just about every poll I have taken part in shows only a slight gender gap in the issue of abortion. We have also taken polls in class and it's always the same result.

You're forgetting the very simple notion of IT HAPPENS.

Of course it does. That's how reproduction works.

Screw you pro-lifers, i have yet to be given a proper reason as to why you people think you can tell other people what they can and cant do in their lives. Freedom of religion? Freedom to bare arms? How about freedom to live your life without other people sticking their big fat noses in screaming bloody murder.

Abortion is NOT an issue that only affects the woman. You can say it all you want, but it doesn't make it true and it will never be true.

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by windword
Someone is lying to you. Abortions aren't performed after 24 weeks, that's a far cry from "just about to give birth." They sure don't do them because the woman changed her mind at the last minute. Maybe she had some emergency complications and lost the baby, and you just heard wrong.

Abortions are legal up to 40 weeks in many places.

Canada being one of them.

I did not know that. Thanks for setting me straight. I apologize for having my USA blinders on and assuming that USA law and supposed moral/ethics are universal!

Reply to post by Demoncreeper

Very sensible answer, and something that Governments should realise: they can make a law, but at the end of the day, if somebody sees it as trampling on their personal freedoms/ a loved one's personal freedoms, they will do it anyway, just as starving people would steal food.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Hefficide


Your thoughts and ideas are as off base as some of the females here.
Where did I say females could not post on this thread ?
Where did I say this was an open debate on abortion ?
I did suggest that some females take their debate to several other threads.
Mods are a joke.They all have this cocky attitude and talk down to the members.
Mods think they are always right on G.P. (general principles) because thay are mods.
The OP says, "Abortion from a mans point of view ".
Tell me where is the mans point of view is in these rants on the female debate on the whole issue of abortion..
Some men HAVE lived through the involvement of a wife, girl friend , daughter, grand daughter, or sister being brutally raped and ended up pregnant.
Asking for a mans perspective on the issue is relivent, and yes several females have gone off topic.
The whole point is there are many topics open for discussion on ATS, and there are topics that are sensitive and some may find it difficult to discuss for personal issues. So when some go off topic with agressive rants
it kills the subject for some who would like to discuss the issue but won't , because they havent completely delt with the issue themselves. There is no right or wrong with openly discussing your own personal feelings, as compared to debating your opinion on an issue.

My own personal thoughts on abortion is that its murder on an industrial scale, and that these days it seems the most hostile environment for a child is its "mothers" womb..

reply to post by windword


You keep combating as if I am telling you to do these things and I am forcing you to.

These are my opinions not my law for women.

There's a pretty simple solution to all of this - reversible contraceptive procedures performed at birth or when they reach sexual maturity. It can then be reversed once they have gone through the same 'song and dance' routine that adoptive parents go through.

In fact, it should be started now, half the idiots that have kids don't deserve them anyway!

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


Why should the innocent child be the victem of any such choice for its own destruction, stripped of directing the narrative for it's own life? No one has the right to choose for that life either way you look at it. It is one life choosing over the other.

One that is able and the other that is the victem of underdevolopment, immaturity and inability so as not to be given the vehicle of choice.

How is this fair?

reply to post by Charmed707

then there are are things you can do to ensure that you won't get pregnant.

I have gotten pregnant twice after proper use of contraceptives. Ask a bunch of women in a mother and toddler group how many of them were concieved while using contraceptives according to instructions. Shockingly high.

By your logic, it would not be unreasonable to suggest that parents should have the right to kill their child because they are a financial strain or infringe on the comfort and happiness of the parents.

Well no, as a clutch of undeveloped cells with no brain isn't a child, something that endlessly evades the comprehension of pro lifers.

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
I am not pro abortion but I do think it should be left up to the woman.
My question is for the men.
If your daughter, sister or wife was raped and became pregnant, how would men feel about the government forcing them to have the child ? Yes the child can be put up for adaption, but how would men handle the pregnancy of there loved one by a rapiest ?
Should there be no abortions at all ?

If my wife, daughter or sister were raped I would not expect them to keep the child. Nor would I expect them to keep the child if birthing it would result in their death. However, I do not believe it should be used as a form of birth control. They make other effective products to deal with the issue of getting pregnant in the first place.

reply to post by Charmed707

.then men should have absolutely no obligation for responsibility of the child

And no access to it either (hey, not their problem is it). I'd like to see a society function with that mindset.

Women put in a vast amount more effort into creating a child. So you are basically stating that a man's five minutes of fun equates to zero consequences to him, but that but the woman gets stuck with a couple of decades of financial and emotional commitment, complete with nine months of discomfort that can make her extremely ill, endanger her life and damage her long term health and future prospects of finding a decent man after (women are way less desirable with someone elses kid in tow).

Not to mention that if there is no long term prior relationship, most women would get squat in the way of child support as unmarried dads are notorious non payers.

A guy doesn't get to tell a woman what she can do with HER body. We don't control other adults bodies. If you could do that, think of the implications;

Criminal prosecution of lovers for endangering their partners for not using a condom when cheating.
Forcing partners to be sterilised when you don't want more children.

etc.

A 'right' to control another person in any way is just mad. Sticking your penis into someone doesn't mean you get to order them around.

reply to post by EvanB

My own personal thoughts on abortion is that its murder on an industrial scale, and that these days it seems the most hostile environment for a child is its "mothers" womb..

The majority of conceptions end in natural abortions. Nature/god is a prolific murderer of the unborn.

Although, of course it's only murder if it's a person. Needs a functioning brain to be a person.

reply to post by Charmed707

When they make unhealthy/stupid choices, they are choosing the consequences that go along with it. It's as simple as that. Next, there will be people like yourself claiming that fatties have a 'right' to diet pills.

A little off topic, but obesity has a majorly genetic component. An obese persion can make consistently healthy food choices and exercise and still be obese. You only need to overeat by a few hundred calories routinely to end up a porker. Obese peoples appetite mechanism isn't the same as a naturally skinny peoples. Some obestity is caused by a viral infection too.

The latest study, in Pediatrics, found that obese children with antibodies specific to a certain virus weighed 35lbs (15.8kg) more than those without.

Here's my two cents: if the woman gets to decide whether or not to keep the child, then the man should have the option to completely disavow all parental responsibilities. No child support, nothing. That's the only way to make the system fair.