Anyone else worried about Göbekli Tepe?

reply to post by Consequence


I'm gonna try to respond to the total sum of your dissection (which was awesome), in one lump. My connectivity is crap today.

From 1500BC, which seems to be some of the best recorded history collections until now, man has been know to live an increasingly civilized life. Windmills, pumps for wells, and hygiene. Sounds ridiculous, but each has played a distinct role in human survival rates and increased population.

The Industrial Revolution increased knowledge by allowing "ease" of daily living (hot water, mass production of food stores, rapid transportation from A to B). With all this free time, let's go to the moon.

In 1911 my great grandmother took 3 months to cross from OK to CA in a model T that went thru nearly as much oil as gas. That was only 100 years ago. 70 years ago my grandfather flew a big fat airplane in Europe & Asia. 40 yrs ago Mom took me to Woodstock.

From 1811 to 1911 there were advances in medical practices, political boundries and changes in fashion, but really? Not much else.

The carbon tests were all found in the last 20 years or so. Has the metabolism of the planet been at the same rate for the last 5,000 or 15,000 or 5B years? Can that be proven? It's in a machine that would have seemed like some sort of voodoo snake oil to my Model T riding Granny.

I just don't believe enough is known. I believe too many things have been taken for granted as a known unit of measure.

Göebleki Tepe is a brilliant wonderful intellectually stimulating find. I see it as a transitional man made object that stands between Stonehenge and Egyptian stonework.

I betcha it sits in the middle of scientific conflicts for another 20-30 years.

If you look at something and measure it with human intellect patterns will emerge. If results depend on mechanized results alone. The big picture could be missed.

Originally posted by SeenAlot
The carbon tests were all found in the last 20 years or so. Has the metabolism of the planet been at the same rate for the last 5,000 or 15,000 or 5B years? Can that be proven? It's in a machine that would have seemed like some sort of voodoo snake oil to my Model T riding Granny.

For the last 50.000 years, no, it hasn't been the same. But thankfully we've found a way to calibrate our measurements.
AFAIK, we cannot do carbon dating further back than around 50.000 years, so carbon dating cannot be used on older organic material.

I just don't believe enough is known. I believe too many things have been taken for granted as a known unit of measure.

Is something still unclear about that?

Göebleki Tepe is a brilliant wonderful intellectually stimulating find. I see it as a transitional man made object that stands between Stonehenge and Egyptian stonework.

Sure... Why the heck not? Let's ignore science and just wing it. Instant results!

I betcha it sits in the middle of scientific conflicts for another 20-30 years.

I guess I'm not interested enough in this topic to know which conflicts you are referring to. Could you tell me about them?
Anyhow, science takes the time it needs to find answers. Obviously your method of guessing is more effective.
Unfortunately you seem to be off by thousands of years.

If you look at something and measure it with human intellect patterns will emerge. If results depend on mechanized results alone. The big picture could be missed.

We already know that civilization and technology has emerged and evolved at different times at different parts of the world. But your guessing means now that we should instead just "intelligently" put them on a timeline in the order of how advanced the civilizations seemed to be.
This is what happens when you're guessing.

See this thread on why i'm worried.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Looters and damage!!
Looks to me that the faces on the totem poles have been purposely hacked off.

And how weird is it that some of the arms and hands in GBT look like the arms and hands of the Easter Island statues?

If I knew how to post pics I would give examples.

This is despite that this site has been known about now for 22 years. With how often they update college textbooks, you'd think book publishers would jump at the chance to release a new textbook version. I mean the name of the site was never even mentioned in the class. I realize that they like to gloss over finer details in high school history classes. But at the college level, this seems like a detail that maybe should at least get a mention.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Let me answer that from first hand experience and knowledge of how the "system" works. This was one of my pet peeves, namely the way the entire textbook system is handled in colleges and universities.
There are two facts you need to know:
1.) Some professors are lazy, and like to reuse material from semester to semester. I saw this among several of my colleagues that taught courses that SHOULD have been updated yearly, sometimes even more frequently. This leads to exactly what you talked about.
2.) The marketing of textbooks to professors is quite similar to the marketing of new drugs to doctors. Sales Reps show up at the professor's door, with new texts, and unfortunately, many times, bribes, disguised as honorariums, or "book fairs" in exotic places, in return for adopting their text books.
I never played either game. In fact, when I first arrived at the college I taught at, I soon made it clear that text book pushers were not welcome in my office. I chose the material I used, with both current knowledge and cost to the student, my two main factors. Many other professors, however, drank the cool aid and gave into the bribes.
Now, let me add a third factor, namely accreditation organizations. Every few years, colleges and universities must go through an accreditation torture. You would think that this would result in superior educational standards, but in many cases, it means merely giving lip service to meaningless "goals" and "standards", that make one think that counting widgets is a more important exercise; In plain English, much of the accreditation process is pure bullsh*t.
Finally, many don't like to incorporate items that have not been accepted by some idiotic fancy sounding acronym heavy educational organization. Thus, new discoveries or theories rarely make it into the standard syllabus.
I won't even bother to get into the petty politics of the typical university department. That is another issue, that unfortunately also comes into play.
I hope you have a better understanding of how the typical student may get screwed by a bureaucracy that they are not even aware exists.

By the way, I don't think anyone mentioned the fact that Göbekli Tepe was the topic of the TV series "Ancient Aliens", season 2 episode 8. Reruns of that episode were on last week on H2.

Unexplained Structures Premiere Date: 12/16/2010 AAA Cite This If ancient aliens visited Earth, can evidence of their existence be found in the mysterious structures that still stand throughout the world? Inexplicably, megalithic structures found on different continents are strikingly similar, and the cutting and moving of the massive stones used to build these magnificent feats would be a struggle for modern day machinery, let alone ancient man. Ancient astronaut theorists suggest that the standing stones in Carnac, France were used as an ancient GPS system for ancient flying machines. The recently discovered Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, which has been dated back 12,000 years, has finely chiseled pillars that experts describe as a Noah's Ark in stone. Is it possible that extraterrestrials assisted primitive man in constructing these unexplained structures? If so, what was the purpose of these grand projects? TVPG

www.history.com...-8

H2 reruns the episodes frequently. I'm sure it will be on again.

I think that it was a zoo. And because I think there is no reason "Anyone else worried about Göbekli Tepe?" I do not know for sure why it was covered over but the article that I read a few weeks back indicates that it might have been covered to protect it from incoming impact from comet or asteroid. If this is the case then it was buried and the impact was bad enough that they forgot about it. I still say it was zoo. The animals on the poles indicated what was on display. Wood items like walkways were removed before burying.

Originally posted by ABNARTY
reply to post by flexy123

 

The "conspiracy" is not so much with the location itself but the acceptance of what it may mean to the scientific community.

There are are a lot of academic careers dependent on history appearing a certain way. This find up ends a lot of that. Ergo, those who made a living "being right" could be wrong.

Incorrect academic careers are made on finding new stuff. There is no 'dependence on history appearing a certain way'....if there is what is that? Why were the Denisovans and Hobbits found?

etc

Scientists are found to be wrong a daily basis, lol

Well getting back to GT

It will take, if the size estimates are correct, about 10-15 years to excavate GT and a bit longer to complete analysis.

Suppression? Near zero, something that old is beyond political concern.

I would note that we'll probably find even earlier cultural sites even small villages going back to 15,000 years ago as we continue to dig....

There is no 'dependence on history appearing a certain way'....if there is what is that?

What if a site or find shows very clearly that our modern/western way of life is to be feared?

What if that site teaches very poetically that "The Fall" happened but that they learned their lesson and got back to "The Garden"? I don't think that the world elite or 1% would dig that at all! = No more servants/slaves/human chattel.

"Seen in this way, the Eden story, in Genesis, tells us of humanity's innocent and leisured hunter-gatherer past, when we could pluck fruit from the trees, scoop fish from the rivers and spend the rest of our days in pleasure.
But then we 'fell' into the harsher life of farming, with its ceaseless toil and daily grind. And we know primitive farming was harsh, compared to the relative indolence of hunting, because of the archaeological evidence....


The world's first farmyard pigs were domesticated at Cayonu, just 60 miles away. Sheep, cattle and goats were also first domesticated in eastern Turkey. Worldwide wheat species descend from einkorn wheat - first cultivated on the hills near Gobekli. Other domestic cereals - such as rye and oats - also started here....

In the Book of Genesis, it is indicated that Eden is west of Assyria. Sure enough, this is where Gobekli is sited.
Likewise, biblical Eden is by four rivers, including the Tigris and Euphrates. And Gobekli lies between both of these.
In ancient Assyrian texts, there is mention of a 'Beth Eden' - a house of Eden. This minor kingdom was 50 miles from Gobekli Tepe.
Another book in the Old Testament talks of 'the children of Eden which were in Thelasar', a town in northern Syria, near Gobekli.
The very word 'Eden' comes from the Sumerian for 'plain'; Gobekli lies on the plains of Harran.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

In other words it may be, IMO, possible that some "leaders" turned a beautifully depicted wise-lesson-learned monument into an invisible man in the sky's punishment story, buried it and ran.

Of course I'm reaching a lot but GBT is very weird!

BTW, I hope it wasn't a zoo, I hate zoos!

Suppression? Near zero, something that old is beyond political concern.

I'm sorry but I just keep having this scenario play in my head when I read about it...That late one dusk a skeleton crew is gathered around sort of in a panic, pacing back and forth, saying to each other, "ummm, this huge carving we just finished digging up is just way too weird...what should we do?"

I don't think it would be "suppression" but just a worry about opening a huge can of worms and what that could do to their jobs and the city's burden of having to ward off the on-slot of ding bats that would come swooping in. I could hear them saying "OK lets just lay this one down over in that cave for the time being".

I know it's far fetched and silly but now that I see that there are freakin' TOTEM POLES with the faces knocked off, it just made my worry worse. And plus that they took them out of in situ, now totally out of context and stored them in some gallery!!......I dunno, it's just weird.

Originally posted by butterflyowl

What if a site or find shows very clearly that our modern/western way of life is to be feared?

It would be reported who exactly would stop it and how would they know about it before the paper is written??

What if that site teaches very poetically that "The Fall" happened but that they learned their lesson and got back to "The Garden"? I don't think that the world elite or 1% would dig that at all! = No more servants/slaves/human chattel.

Er why? The 'elite' don't all think or act alike nor cooperate with one another, are you chattel? lol

In other words it may be, IMO, possible that some "leaders" turned a beautifully depicted wise-lesson-learned monument into an invisible man in the sky's punishment story, buried it and ran.

....or more probably they created a new site each time for new festival and then buried it after its use. Such burying of altars and temples is not unknown in later history. I believe the Romans did a celebration called the ludi saeculares every 100-110 years and buired the altar until the next time, but going on memory there

If you are going to try and use the Bible as 'evidence' then you have to also use what it said about Eden.....two people then destroyed, animals didn't eat one another, etc

I wonder if the scientists there could ever conclude who buried the site, if it was the same people who built them or if another band/group did.

I used the old testament in the context that it's (the book of Genesis) where real folk lore, of the time of writing, was used to teach some doctrines. Not that it was black and white history, but is sprinkled with real name-places.

It's well established that most ancient religions world wide has the same'ish stories of "The Creation", "The Fall", "The Flood" and that they could not be all a coincidental, that around the end of the last Ice Age the survivors world wide who shared a common experience ended up with the same reactions more or less.

Originally posted by butterflyowl
I wonder if the scientists there could ever conclude who buried the site, if it was the same people who built them or if another band/group did.

I used the old testament in the context that it's (the book of Genesis) where real folk lore, of the time of writing, was used to teach some doctrines. Not that it was black and white history, but is sprinkled with real name-places.

They may but they need to find a habitation site in association with GT, AFAIK they haven't had that luck yet.

It's well established that most ancient religions world wide has the same'ish stories of "The Creation", "The Fall", "The Flood" and that they could not be all a coincidental, that around the end of the last Ice Age the survivors world wide who shared a common experience ended up with the same reactions more or less.

No those stories are particular to the Judeo-Christian-Islam tradition. You may wish to look at say, Shinto tradition which holds"

Creation of Heaven and Earth
The Shinto creation story begins by describing the means by which Heaven and Earth were separated. Initially, both were combined into a substance analogous to an egg. This mass contained germs within indefinite borders. As this composition separated, the purer, clear element rose out, forming Heaven. The denser, impure substance sank to become Earth. Heaven formed easily, thus was completed first. Earth, however, evolved with more trouble, and therefore developed later.

Creation of the Kami
Once Heaven and Earth were formed, the deities of Shinto were created. A reed sprouted from the newly created Earth, becoming the god Kuni-toko-tachi no Mikoto. Next evolved seven more generations of deities both male and female. These gods are Kuni no sa-tsuchi no Mikoto, Toyo-kumu-nu no Mikoto, pure males, Uhiji-ni no Mikoto, Suhiji-ni no Mikoto, Oho-to nochi, Oho-to mahe no Mikoto, and finally Izanagi no Mikoto and Izanami no Mikoto. These deities or Kami do not possess the omnipotence or wrath commonly associated with gods of other religions.

Creation of Land Masses
Once created, Izanagi no Mikoto and Izanami no Mikoto discussed the lack of creation on Earth. To rectify the situation they threw their heavenly spear into the ocean that composed Earth. Upon contact with the spear, part of the ocean became an island named Ono-goro-jima. When translated, this means center of the land. The two Kami descended to Earth and lived together on this island. By uniting as husband and wife, Izanagi no Mikoto and Izanami no Mikoto produced more islands. They created the islands of Ahaji no Shima, Oho-yamato no Toyo-aki-tsu-shima, Iyo no futa-na, Tsukushi, Oki and Sado, Oho-ya-shima, and Tsushima and Iki. Together these islands formed a country. Izanagi no Mikoto and Izanami no Mikoto then joined together to create the sea, rivers, and mountains.

Somewhat different from Genesis wouldn't you say?

Source

It truly is time to relook upon supposed 'myths' of creation. There will always be perhaps false memories implanted over time, but only by cross referencing can we deduce the truth, for one may lie, but if many other ancient civilisations said some to the same things, there may be some truths in them.

However, the rigours of science dictates that whatever theorie or hypothesis be proven, which is the right way, as mankind depend often more on their 5 senses, and only fair.

But we must never worship upon the pedestal of science, when our current scientific knowledge is unfortunately abysmal and totally limited, for there IS still very much to know.

In the meantime, for rational folks, there is no need to take sides, but to explore whatever that is presented rationally within the bounds of our rather limited sciences, so as not to miss out the potential of hope and knowledge it can bring upon mankind for our origins.

For not too long ago, humanity was taught that civilisation began only 5000 years ago. But with further diggings upon the massive land areas of our planet, we now realize that civilisation may had began further back, much further back, and would be interesting and beneficial to know what happen and why they cease to exist or assimulated.

Not every habitat is a 'religious building' or a mural a ' religious artefact'. If a future archeologist were to dig the remains of Earth in New York and found the Statue of Liberty, he would think we worshipped the goddess of flame! Thus may our current archeologist and anthropologists not make the same mistake with more new finds.

reply to post by Hanslune

I should have said "traditions" not religion, and kept it to the flood myths.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.ehow.com...
www.talkorigins.org...

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Good points but why do we always see "civilization" as a measurment? Sure we may have been civilized/domesticated further back, but after a point I think dates really don't mean much.

To me I think we have all the knowledge we need already inside us, written in our being.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Not every habitat is a 'religious building' or a mural a ' religious artefact'. If a future archeologist were to dig the remains of Earth in New York and found the Statue of Liberty, he would think we worshipped the goddess of flame! Thus may our current archeologist and anthropologists not make the same mistake with more new finds.

That's true but until the 19th century most large building were religion oriented. The modern western world has moved beyond a reality based on religion. Think about ancient ruins that remain for which we have reasonable understanding of what they were built for, nearly all are related to religion or death

I find the animal carvings the most interesting. If this is a temple what were the reasons for the animals carvings, especiallyy the animals that are not indigenous to the area. What do y'all think?

I also don't doubt suppression of objects considered too dangerous, the government thinks we cannot handle the fact Aliens have been here, so anything that might scare us I think they won't show us. Although I do think it depends on what countries governments are involved because some are more open than others.

reply to post by Consequence

What exactly would be "game-changing" to you?

Knowledge is power.

Knowledge suppressed gives power only to the privy.

I'd call that a game changer of the highest level.

SnF OP.