Stronger storms could be destroying our ozone

Severe storms cause widespread destruction on the ground, but a new study says they may also be damaging protective ozone in the upper atmosphere. A team of Harvard University scientists has found that water vapor ejected into the stratosphere by strong thunderstorms can set off an ozone-depleting chemical reaction.

Water vapor injected into the stratosphere by towering storm clouds triggers multiple chemical reactions that destroy ozone. (Robert Stanhope - Harvard University) The study, published July 26, raises concerns that climate change might accelerate the loss of ozone above Earth’s populated areas. Until now, it was thought that human-induced ozone depletion only occurred at very cold temperatures above the planet’s polar regions. But this research shows that ozone is vulnerable above more temperate climates as well.

Such a possibility poses risks to humans: the ozone layer protects us by blocking a large portion of the sun’s harmful ultraviolet (UV) rays, known to cause skin cancer. Scientists are concerned that ozone depletion over the planet’s populated areas could increase as a warming climate loads the dice for more frequent severe weather.

Source

More research is still needed to measure actual rates of stratospheric ozone depletion due to convective water vapor. Nonetheless, this study implies that Earth’s protective ozone layer may not be repairing itself as quickly as hoped in the wake of the 1987 Montreal Protocol that banned manmade CFCs.

If severe storms are in fact pumping extra water vapor into the stratosphere, we may not be as protected from the sun’s damaging UV rays as once thought.

Now I live in the South East US, and I moved here about 7 years ago. Over the past 2-3 years I have seen a huge change in storms, rain, wind, and just the temperature here in general has been crazy. Now I was reading this study by Harvard Scientists, and the storms could actually be doing some damage to the Ozone, and more importantly in warmer climates....

Until now, it was thought that human-induced ozone depletion only occurred at very cold temperatures above the planet’s polar regions. But this research shows that ozone is vulnerable above more temperate climates as well.

So for years we have speculated that the Ozone was being affected in just the polar regions (Which was a concern because of the ICE caps) but now we know it is also effecting warmer regions. I wonder if we are in a catch 22 with the Storms and the Ozone? What if the weather is changing because of the Ozone depleting, and in return the Weather is causing more Ozone damage because of the Water vapor being ejected into the stratosphere?

I am assuming it is pollution laced water vapor and that is more of the cause, but the article just says "Water Vapor".

Why isn't this more of a concern? What can we do to reduce water vapor being ejected into the stratosphere? The article doesn't really elaborate if they think this is something natural that can just occur or if it is a result of Global Warming/Pollution.

reply to post by Djayed


And I guess this is the more concerning statement....

If severe storms are in fact pumping extra water vapor into the stratosphere, we may not be as protected from the sun’s damaging UV rays as once thought.

reply to post by Djayed

So for years we have speculated that the Ozone was being affected in just the polar regions (Which was a concern because of the ICE caps) but now we know it is also effecting warmer regions.

Ozone depletion has nothing to do with melting of polar (or any other) ice. Lower ozone levels increase UV levels at the surface. This doesn't affect climate (temperatures) but it can be harmful to living things.

Ozone has a half life of 45 minutes. At 70 miles up, water vapor would freeze. The electrostatic action of the atmosphere at that height as the earth turns creates the ozone from oxygen atoms and O2 molecules. Sprites at that height also assist in making the ozone molecule. Methinks they are creating fear when none is called for.

reply to post by NightFlight

Ozone has a half life of 45 minutes.

Not exactly.

At 70 miles up, water vapor would freeze.

Water vapor doesn't "freeze" unless the air is supersaturated.

The electrostatic action of the atmosphere at that height as the earth turns creates the ozone from oxygen atoms and O2 molecules.

The ozone layer is created by sunlight, not electrostatic action.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Djayed

 

So for years we have speculated that the Ozone was being affected in just the polar regions (Which was a concern because of the ICE caps) but now we know it is also effecting warmer regions.

Ozone depletion has nothing to do with melting of polar (or any other) ice. Lower ozone levels increase UV levels at the surface. This doesn't affect climate (temperatures) but it can be harmful to living things.

edit on 8/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

It does indirectly...

The ozone hole does not directly affect air temperatures in the troposphere, the layer of the atmosphere closest to the surface, although changes in circulation over Antarctica related to the ozone hole appear to be changing surface temperature patterns over that continent. Ozone is actually a greenhouse gas, and so are CFCs, meaning that their presence in the troposphere contributes slightly to the heightened greenhouse effect. The main greenhouse gas responsible for present-day and anticipated global warming, however, is carbon dioxide produced by burning of fossil fuels for electricity, heating, and transportation.

Higher up, the loss of stratospheric ozone has led to some cooling in that layer of the atmosphere. An even larger effect comes from carbon dioxide, which acts as a cooling agent in the stratosphere even though it warms the atmosphere closer to ground level. This paradox occurs because the atmosphere thins with height, changing the way carbon dioxide molecules absorb and release heat. Together, the increase in carbon dioxide and the loss of ozone have led to record-low temperatures recently in the stratosphere and still higher up in the thermosphere. Far from being a good thing, this cooling is another sign that increasing levels of carbon dioxide are changing our planet's climate.

Source

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by NightFlight

 

Ozone has a half life of 45 minutes.

Not exactly.

At 70 miles up, water vapor would freeze.

Water vapor doesn't "freeze" unless the air is supersaturated.

The electrostatic action of the atmosphere at that height as the earth turns creates the ozone from oxygen atoms and O2 molecules.

The ozone layer is created by sunlight, not electrostatic action.

edit on 8/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I've created tons of ozone to purify water. So you are telling me that the ozone in the atmosphere is created by sunlight? How? The UV in sunlight is deflected by ozone isotopes which separates the O3 molecule into three O or one O and one O2 and almost immediately by electrostatic action, the oxygen atoms are recombined into O3. The problem is that there are less oxygen atoms in the atmosphere up there as there have been. I used the best half life time as some O3 lasts for an hour and some won't stay combined for thirty minutes. Visible wavelength photons aren't massive enough to do much and certainly don't create ozone.

reply to post by NightFlight

The UV in sunlight is deflected by ozone isotopes which separates the O3 molecule into three O or one O and one O2 and almost immediately by electrostatic action, the oxygen atoms are recombined into O3.

That's right, sort of. But you aren't going to get 3 oxygen atoms out of an O3 molecule from UV. Not enough energy.

In the stratosphere shortwave (high energy) UV radiation splits O2 into two oxygen atoms, each of which combines with other O2 atoms to form O3. Deeper in the atmosphere where the shortwave UV doesn't penetrate one of the reactions you are talking about occurs, O3 is broken into O and O2. That free oxygen atom may then combine with with an O2 molecule or it can "steal" an oxygen atom from another O3 molecule. These are called the Chapman reactions.

The problem is that there are less oxygen atoms in the atmosphere up there as there have been.

No, that is not the problem. The problem is that CFCs are interfering with the reactions.

I used the best half life time as some O3 lasts for an hour and some won't stay combined for thirty minutes.

You are talking about what happens in the lower atmosphere.

Visible wavelength photons aren't massive enough to do much and certainly don't create ozone.

All photons have the same mass (none) but we aren't talking about visible wavelengths.

I actually find this funny because lightning can create ozone...

You know I just did a google search and on how ozone is formed and the number one hit was this

www.epa.gov...

It pops up with a distrubing animation. Can I just ask someone to look at this and confirm what i'm witnessing here.

It looks like the animation is saying "it's ok for trucks, cars, and factories to pollute because it creates ozone"?

Is this propaganda... I mean it's the EPA website...

Originally posted by DaRAGE
I actually find this funny because lightning can create ozone...

You know I just did a google search and on how ozone is formed and the number one hit was this

www.epa.gov...

It pops up with a distrubing animation. Can I just ask someone to look at this and confirm what i'm witnessing here.

It looks like the animation is saying "it's ok for trucks, cars, and factories to pollute because it creates ozone"?

Is this propaganda... I mean it's the EPA website...

edit on 22-8-2012 by DaRAGE because: (no reason given)

Great find!! I don't know this seems like propaganda....why do we care about carbon emissions from cars if it is good? Why would factories be Turing green?

The cars and the factories are the reason for the Ozone holes?? Right?

reply to post by Phage

Since we are getting into fine details, a 2 body O + O2 reaction is unlikely to produce a stable O3 molecule without a third body (i.e. another O2 or N2 molecule) to carry away the reactants excess momentum. At 50 km above earth, 2 body collisions are rare and 3 body collisions are even less frequent so we should expect ozone production to proceed slowly.

Best regards,
Z

reply to post by Djayed

The cars and the factories are the reason for the Ozone holes?? Right?

Wrong. The reason for the enlarged ozone holes is the use of CFCs. Now banned, their effects continue because they act as a catalyst, not a reactant.

Ozone in the lower atmosphere is a pollutant. Ozone in the upper atmosphere shields the surface from UV radiation.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Djayed

 

The cars and the factories are the reason for the Ozone holes?? Right?

Wrong. The reason for the enlarged ozone holes is the use of CFCs. Now banned, their effects continue because they act as a catalyst, not a reactant.

Ozone in the lower atmosphere is a pollutant. Ozone in the upper atmosphere shields the surface from UV radiation.

edit on 8/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Thank you for the clarification!!! I think the whole Ozone issue it layered with misconceptions and inaccurate information!

Are you you a scientist or just science buff? You clearly have above basic knowledge on the subject!

Thanks Again!