It is well past time for a Government coup. They have lost their fear of the people and need a remi

Too true brother. Maybe it's time we (the people) started composing lists? I mean, everyone seems to have one except us. We need to turn the tables the world over and let these fascists know that they're not the only ones with pens, paper and growing discontent.

Democracy at work.

How long can the publics delusion last?

The prospect of a coup is small considering how many people are apathetic toward government.

I was talking with my dad about some of the aspects of the tax system that I disagree with and he said, "well, you can dislike the system, but you still have to pay the taxes. There's nothing you can really do about it."

Didn't say anything but I sort of wish I had shouted, "THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED BY REVOLUTIONARIES WHO WERE DISSATISFIED WITH TAXES AND GOVERNMENT. I WOULDN'T BE AN AMERICAN UNLESS I DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT."

Too much is tied up in established institutions for an over night revolution without serious economic consequence. But there are steps we can take this fall to head in the right directions.

-Encouraging increased political participation.

-Demanding campaign finance reform and lobbying restrictions.

-Promoting a shift away from the two party system. Why is my state legislature all Republican and Democrat? Shouldn't there be more local minded parties?

-Asking for a federal referendum option. Giving the public the ability to recall legislation by popular vote.

The USA is like a old tree growing outwards so much that nothing ever comes to fruition and everything withers on the vine and falls. It will fall and everyone sees it happening and knows the solution they just won't accept the truth. It's coming down fast and people will need to bond when it does. Do you want to die standing on your feet and have a chance with others, or do you want to die on your knees in the mud?

Originally posted by Neocrusader

Hell just by looking at your post probably gets us on a list somewhere

The same thought crossed my mind.

Some may label that quote paranoia; I view it as grounds for detainment in accordance to NDAA! Brandon Raub is proof.

I think that any fighting will come after the crash. Regardless of your perspectives , I think we are all going to have to deal with it in this lfetime. Governemnts are the same the world over now. Once Governments started this neoliberal obsession with privatization and moving services from an area that owed some moral obligation, to area with none ....anyway you know how the story ends.... commodification, debt, banksters, disappearing middle class all over the world.

We own this , we stood by and let it happen.

Realistically there is no way out of it now , people are disconnected, communities are disfunctional and disconnected. My wife even looks at me like I'm batty if I mention economic collapse ....people don't want to know, and if they do then half are to stupid to grasp what it means for us, the other half bury their head in the sand and say "jeez I hope they do something to sort that out, maybe I should vote for...."

It's going to take collapse for the masses to get disgruntled enough to drag themselves away from their egocentric little existences and actually participate in bringing about change.
There does not have to be bloodshed, if there is enough public disgust and demands for change then there is a slim chance the people united might get what they ask for ....scrap the Federal Reserve, forgive debt, scap government structure into multi party and independent representation, scrap election funding , cap personal wealth and corporate earnings with massive tax ceilings , trace and tax monies leaving the country, seize cayman and Swiss accounts, seize property of those that caused the collapse, return peoples freedom.

I have to admit , I was super excited when the Occupy movement started , for a second there it felt like change was in the air , but the big wigs just stood on the balcony at Wall street sipping wine, laughing and mocking them. It's some thing that would need the rage of an entire population to take to the streets say "this is our town , you either serve us or you are out of business" .

Intead of flash mobs of kids stealing chocolate bars or idealistic kids in guy Fawkes masks. , imagine if 10 thousand angry residents turned up to a Walmart or bank and said " we are closing you down , you had the chance to do the right thing by this suburb and this country and you chose not to , and you will do business here no more " . Now imagine that happened in every town . I think there would be a major backflip in attitudes accros the world. That's what I call occupy.

reply to post by Terminal1


I suggest to everyone I meet, collect paper books on chemistry, metalurgy, engineering, woodworking, agriculture and survival. Six books don't need electricity to read and they can save your life in a SHTF scenario. I know a lot of mid level people in the government and word has filtered down to me to beware the end of September and beginning of October this year. These government employees are very nervous and some of them have asked me to set them up off the grid (which I am doing), fore-warned is fore-armed. You are right, 90% of the people out there really won't know what do, but at least some of them are smart enough to know that and are preparing. What will happen to the rest, well.... I would hope nothing bad but I am a realist. Hungry people without their creature comforts will become wild animals and subsequently settle into two camps, one of which will be victims.

As the Hopi say, this is the fourth sun (civilization), maybe we implode each time at the end of a few thousand years. So who will dig us up? The civilization of the fifth sun, when we do this all over again in say 10k to 100k years.

ETA: Star back at ya', you see clearly.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by VforVendettea
People are so over worked/fluoridated/taxes/poisoned/spyed on/tracked that they are too tired to stand up for themselves even though they should.

Unfortunately I don't think the "People" are over (insert) - most aren't denying ignorance and can't possibly fathom that their existence would dramatically change from their current modalities. For those that are denying ignorance from the comforts of home may not have an understanding of how to be the change that is desparately needed.

Personally I am sure I am on their list. I am sure I fit more than a few of their parameters for being watched, ex military with security clearance and Special Warfare Operator, very outspoken about the corruption in government and destruction of our constitution, I used to post my feelings on Facebook and discuss the government tyranny with family members on there until I posted my opinion of one of Obama's posts on his FB page and had my account froze. I'm sure the latter landed me on one of the alphabet agency lists, if I wasn't already.

However I could give a $hit less about their lists, I'm not afraid of them or their lists. The only thing I'm afraid of is a cage, and that's what America is turning into, one giant cage with its citizens being at the mercy of the cage masters (government) and their tyranny.

I'm 40 years old and as a previous poster stated, I can't even recognize my country anymore. My father whom passed away 4 years ago at the age of 87 served in the Navy from 1941 to 1977 and retired a Rear Admiral told me and my brothers one day shortly before he died that we would witness the transformation of America into a fascist nation that would make the regimes of the axis powers of WWII look mild. He said that it had been slowly building since the end of WWII but now it was moving at light speed and that it would happen very soon and that America is no where even remotely near what it was 50 years ago.

I know my father was no prophet, he was just a smart man that had seen much in his years of life and could see the change coming. I have to say that he was absolutely correct, and he was also correct when he told us that we would be forced to shed blood to fight for our freedoms and the preservation of this nation. He raised me and my siblings to read and know the writings of our founding fathers and our constitution and taught us to never forget the sacrifices made by the men and woman that paid the ultimate price to secure our liberties.

We now live under a government that has no respect for its citizens, the rule of law, or the constitution. We are nothing more than livestock to be hearded to the slaughter and forced to obey tyrannical laws and regulations that serve no purpose but to generate revenue for the corrupt politicians and government.

As was written in our Declaration of Independence, We are born with certain unalienable rights that include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and in order to secure these rights governments are formed among men. Its written there for all to see, the role of government is to secure our rights, not destroy them as our government is doing. The government is to be governed by the consent of the governed, not rule over the people and oppress as it is trying to do. It also says in the Declaration of Independence that though prudence dictates that governments long established shall not be overthrown for minor reasons however after a long train of abuses ensues that seek to strip those unalienable rights from the people that give consent to the government then it is not only our right but our duty to through off that government and start anew. Therefore if we set by and allow our government to continue with its tyrannical, Orwellian agenda we are not only letting ourselves down but we are also thwarting our duty as citizens of this great nation.

"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace – but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

reply to post by groingrinder


Yeah, a coup. Boy, that makes a lot of sense. Freakin' 'tards. WTF, everyone think the US is some third world banana republic?

And how come you all just love to try to take a hairy dump on the military, UNLESS they are the ones to instigate this stupid coup. Then, all the sudden like, they are heroes.

Our founding fathers subnitted a list of facts of England's tyranny to the world. Look at these facts that our founders submitted and notice the parallel to what our government is currently doing to us then ask yourself WWJD (What Would Jefferson Do)?

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers. He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world: For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

I

We have seen our nation come almost complete full circle. It is now up to us to follow the example set by our founding fathers and throw off tyranny in order secure our liberties and way of life for not only ourselves but future generations.

reply to post by jerico65


I don't think people would be too misguided in their perceptions in thinking that the military will be the ones blowing them away should their be civil unrest. Having said that I think a big part of that mistrust comes from people not trusting their government - who will be ordering the military to go out and quell the disturbances ... then ship them to FEMA camps or shoot them on site lol.

I am all for starving out our evil government monetarily, and i am already doing that since i have worked my way up from a few pence to complete poverty, i don't even have a choice to starve them out since i make crumbs from minimum wage and part time.

But if i ever see the day when all of the greedy bastiches are ousted, i'll be the first to say put them all on an island with remote cameras, and for entertainment purposes, put no one in charge.

I think the biggest problem in government is the senate, they seem to decide what goes, and they decide on subjects not for moralities sake, but for their own interests, if the senate were ousted, then it would be my request to allow the american people to replace the senate.
Everyone with a computer can vote which would make for more reasonable choices, and if you do not own a pc, then you have the libraries so no one person is excluded.

Sorry but that last sentence sounded like "no child left behind", which should have been "no one left behind".

Originally posted by USpatriot
I'll be 52 in two more days and I can honestly say that I dont recognize this country anymore. When you have a government that can lock you up for saying anything against them, then you are not free. Since King Obama came to power, we have had the 1st, 4th, and fifth amendment stripped away with the NDAA. It started with Bush, 911, and the Patriot Act, but has really gotten bad with our current Dictator.

It's way past time for the people to take their country back. Most believe that electing Romney will take it back. Romney is the opposite side of the same coin as Obama, and if he gets elected they will bitch about him for the next four years.

I have a feeling that something huge is coming our way. Everyone feels it. Nobody knows what it is though. We will all find out soon though I do believe.

IMO, I dont think Obama is going to give up his office, even if he loses. They have something planned. Only they know what is about to happen and all we can do is watch and be prepared for whatever they might have in store for us.

The people will have their country back, and I for one hope that it is sooner rather than later.

I would say vote Libertarian and avoid the chaos. Change from the bottom up. I mean at every local election, every state election, and every national election. Stop voting for the lesser of two evils and see what happens. There is not some imaginary boogie man running the show. The idiots in the crowd are running the show.

Originally posted by USpatriot
I'll be 52 in two more days and I can honestly say that I dont recognize this country anymore. When you have a government that can lock you up for saying anything against them, then you are not free. Since King Obama came to power, we have had the 1st, 4th, and fifth amendment stripped away with the NDAA. It started with Bush, 911, and the Patriot Act, but has really gotten bad with our current Dictator.

It's way past time for the people to take their country back. Most believe that electing Romney will take it back. Romney is the opposite side of the same coin as Obama, and if he gets elected they will bitch about him for the next four years.

I have a feeling that something huge is coming our way. Everyone feels it. Nobody knows what it is though. We will all find out soon though I do believe.

IMO, I dont think Obama is going to give up his office, even if he loses. They have something planned. Only they know what is about to happen and all we can do is watch and be prepared for whatever they might have in store for us.

The people will have their country back, and I for one hope that it is sooner rather than later.

I'm glad there are still a few people on ATS who can see that Dem/Rep is meaningless in the grand scheme. It's unnerving how many people, on a site with folks whom you'd think at the very least, are suspicious of the B.S., are complete partisan hacks. Right wingers ranting and raving about Obama. The few left-wingers who are here thinking it's 100% Bush's fault without acknowledging that - while he really got the ball rolling, Obama has kept it rolling.

Anyhow, kudos to the folks who think all these jag bags on both sides are a bunch if scum.

As for Obama not giving up office...I coukd only see that if it's orchestrated, and if it would be - why not go the easy route and ensure his re-election? The only way Romney wins and Obama doesn't allow the changeover, is if "they" want it to go down that way in order to take the left/right splinters they've formed and finally break the U.S.in two.

It's too bad the biggest differences between the two sides (of the electorate) come down to what level of controll over personal choice people want the government to have (abortion, gay marriage, and other such matters.) if only those two things somehow magically were agreed upon by all, not a single Dem or Rep could win an election in the U.S.

It's a shame that the people who really know and can run this country are not currently in office. They are currently tending bar, cutting hair and driving cabs.

Originally posted by downunderthunder
reply to post by jerico65

 

I don't think people would be too misguided in their perceptions in thinking that the military will be the ones blowing them away should their be civil unrest. Having said that I think a big part of that mistrust comes from people not trusting their government - who will be ordering the military to go out and quell the disturbances ... then ship them to FEMA camps or shoot them on site lol.

I've seen a lot of statements about people thinking the military would be willing to fire upon civilians or round them up for internment. I have to say I disagree wholeheartedly with that assumption based on my experience during my years in the military. I served during the 90's and early 2000's and during the Clinton years there was some rumors of Chinese troops being brought to the US and of martial law.

I've had numerous conversations with my fellow operators as well as members of Army and Marines that I was deployed with through the years and the concensus was overwhelmingly that they would not. Military members developed a tight bond with their fellow soldiers that is in many cases as close or closer than family, especially for those who have been in combat. None of us would want armed military personnel killing or rounding up our family and friends and because of this we would never be willing to do this to our fellow soldiers families.

Soldiers are not mindless souls that will follow any order no matter what and if we were facing a SHTF scenario you can bet there would be plenty of high ranking officers as well as enlisted personnel that would object to such orders. Sure there would be the few that would follow any order blindly no matter how obscene they were but when you consider the number of military personnel versus the number of armed civilians it would fare well for the military. As of current numbers there are just over 5 million active and reserve military members from all branches of the military combined. As of the last figures there are 9 firearms for every 10 citizens in the US, now of course there will be many civilians that wouldn't take up arms but if only 10% of civilians took up arms against the military it would be around 30 million people against 5 million military members, if all military personnel complied with orders. If 50% of the military refused it would be roughly a 15 to 1 battle, even with artillary and air power the military wouldn't last long.

reply to post by BlindBastards


Exactly it's not about who's the most powerful of the 3, it's all about the sell-sword aka the people, no matter what power they think they have it comes down to he man to decide their fate, problem is the people stopped getting paid and all 3 work together now to equal rape the population.

great book series
"When you play the game of thrones you win or DIE"

reply to post by axslinger


Thank you for your insight, expertise, and obvious knowlege with regards to the subject matter,
Your comment was well thought out, constructive, and indeed contributed and extra dimension to this thread and argument
And feel I must apologise also, where as maths and the sciences are a strong subject for me, alas my written English most certainly isn't .........and being my second language didn't think I did too badly ( and this being typed out in haste on a small touch screen device devoid of a spell/grammar check and bloody auto correct )

Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick, so if you'd kindly converse with myself in Pashtun, that would be greatly appreciated, thereby avoiding any confusion in the future
Or even French, Spanish or Portuguese
Sorry I really am trying, sorry it wasn't good enough for yourself ( where as I got applauded from the mods )
I can but only wonder where the world would have been had you found da'vinci's diary and the advances we could have made
I'm voting you as pres of the USA

( WWW. - remember what it stands for please - and no this is not an American website )

Originally posted by Konduit

Democracy at work.

How long can the publics delusion last?

edit on 22-8-2012 by Konduit because: (no reason given)

Legislator said "there are times where we don't break for lunch, we don't break for dinner, we don't even have bathroom breaks".

News flash sweetie, thats what government is supposed to be like. You should be working like a dog for us, with little pay and little rest and you should be greatful for it. That's the kind of work ethic that made this nation great, it's called public servitide taken with a dash of humility and a pinch of humbleness. Instead we get this crap where they buy muffins that cost 100 bucks per muffin, and go to dinner eating food that costs 5000 bucks a plate all paid for by hardworking folks like you and me who can barely make ends meet from paycheck to paycheck.