Anyone who thinks UFOs don't exist read this!!!

reply to post by JimTSpock


Jim, that's very cute, but you are not distinguishing between 'UFO' and 'Alien Craft'. One of those is irrefutable and tangible, the other is not. There is no hard proof alien craft visiting us – at all.

The 'U' in UFO is key. Unidentified to the observer does not mean it can't be identified at all. One man may say "Look, a UFO!". But the man standing beside him may say "No, mate, by the relative distances between the marker lights and the speed and orientation of travel that is a Boeing 777 at about 30,000 feet". To one man it's a UFO and the other it's most certainly a IFO.

Worm Holes and bending space exist only in the mind (except in gravity). There's no evidence they have or do exist, or even that they can ever exist. In fact, some research suggests not, especially in regards to making them exist.

If intelligent life ever came to this planet we would ALL know about it, I'm sure of that. I don't think they have come here and secretly sided with the American Government to fund and provide technology to their war efforts.

JimTSpock
That's a good point there are billions of other galaxies so out in the vastness of the universe there would be trillions and trillions of planets capable of supporting life. It is highly probable intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe. The large number of credible UFO incidents fits in with this. Looking at the universe in it's vastness this idea doesn't seem so strange.

Hi,

Current thinking appears to be that one of the building blocks for the environment in which life of any sort popped over on a meteor/asteroid from Mars. Not life mind, but one of the essential elements that would allow it to occur. If that truly is the case then would you agree that even the only planet we know sustains life only does so by a very happy accident?

I for one have no issue with sentient life existing, possibly quite widespread throughout the universe. That does not in any way shape or means become a de facto conclusion that the earth has had multiple visitations - the two are not mutually inclusive by any means. Arguing that it does is - and I hate to use the term - just a strawman.

TerraLiga
reply to post by JimTSpock

 

you are not distinguishing between 'UFO' and 'Alien Craft'.

If intelligent life ever came to this planet we would ALL know about it, I'm sure of that.

Yes I am and if you're sure of that good for you.

reply to post by JimTSpock


Jim, do you have a theory of your own you'd like to share? I'd be interested in why you think that now they have managed to get here they just sit in their space ships and do nothing.

reply to post by TerraLiga


I'm not sure you're treating this subject very seriously. Why are ET craft visiting this planet? Scientific research could be one reason. Of course that is just my own speculation. I'm sure you think it's all very stupid. But that does not dismiss 100% of the evidence. Maybe in your mind it does who knows.

reply to post by TerraLiga


Perhaps you'd be interested in reading through the entire Cometa report english translation which I've provided and attempt your own conclusion? The ET hypothesis is the most probable I think.

reply to post by uncommitted


I said considering this the idea doesn't seem so strange. Not 'de facto conclusion' or whatever concept of your own you wish to project to support your own view. That is a part of my view not it's entirety. And that is what you fail to comprehend.

JimTSpock
reply to post by TerraLiga

 

Scientific research could be one reason.

I'm ignoring the insults and slurs from you in order to generate discussion and an understanding of your thoughts and theories.

So, research. That's good, we're getting somewhere. What sort of research and what is it for? For example, do you mean research of our planet, the people, flora and fauna? Or maybe on our resources? Or maybe on Earth's suitability for habitation?

I'm not taking the p*ss and I am serious.

reply to post by TerraLiga


Sorry but I found your tone unappealing and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. I don't believe I insulted you but apologies if you've taken offense. Get used to it on here if you use a hostile tone on some of our posters.

As for ET I'd imagine they'd be quite interested to observe the path evolutionary biology has taken on this planet, meaning all lifeforms.

reply to post by TerraLiga


By the way you do think this is all pretty stupid don't you? I can tell. Admit it.

JimTSpock
reply to post by TerraLiga

 

By the way you do think this is all pretty stupid don't you? I can tell. Admit it.

edit on 13-9-2013 by JimTSpock because: (no reason given)

Absolutely not. Stupid is not the word I would use at all.

I am very interested to hear of the reasons why people think the way they do and believe the things they hold dear, and defend with their lives, sometimes.

I love coming up with theories – I do it all the time. So I examine every angle, working my way backwards to the very start, which often begins with the most basic questions, like why and how. This is how I approach everything that's beyond my initial understanding and helps me understand, or try to. It's a very rewarding task, especially when you complete it.

I'm seriously interested in what your thoughts are.

reply to post by TerraLiga


Sorry but I thought you were a typical 100% skeptic denier when you said 'very cute'. A typical derogatory term they might use to make you feel stupid and below them. My last post on the previous page pretty much sums up my view on this subject. Defend with their lives? I'm at home on the computer I'm not defending anything.

Try reading the Cometa report. It contains more fantastic material than anything I've said. And it's a very credible source. If taken seriously as it should be it is quite disturbing. Unknown objects invading our airspace which display flight performance and capabilities far beyond our present technological capabilities which appear to be intelligently controlled.

Now you tell me what do you make of that?

Don't get me wrong, I am skeptic. A huge one on this topic. It's because of precisely the reasons that I explained last post. I started with the thought that other intelligent life has visited our planet and worked backwards. I came to the conclusion (for many reasons) that it was not the case. But that doesn't mean I'm not interested in why people think it is – if anything it challenges or justifies my reasoning process.

The "defend with their lives" comment was regarding other topics, especially faith-based beliefs.

TerraLiga
I came to the conclusion (for many reasons) that it was not the case.

As Spock would say fascinating. Care to say the reasons why that is not the case and show your logic to reach such a conclusion?

JimTSpock
Why are ET craft visiting this planet? Scientific research could be one reason.

Maybe. But it would have to entail that something happened on some other planet that essentially paralleled a very unlikely thing that happened here on Earth. Not only did life have to appear and evolve on the other planet, the type of intelligence and social systems and value systems would have had to happen, too. "Science" as we know it is only a few hundred years old on Earth, and it took thousands of years to develop. There are a lot of people on this very website who still don't trust or like it. Had just the right social and political and religious events not happened, there would be no science. We'd still be worshiping nature gods.

So not only would a similar physical evolution have to take place, but social evolution as well. That doubles at least the chances of such a thing not happening.

JimTSpock

TerraLiga
I came to the conclusion (for many reasons) that it was not the case.

As Spock would say fascinating. Care to say the reasons why that is not the case and show your logic to reach such a conclusion?

Yes, for sure. I'm going to make it my first thread actually, so stay tuned. I'll present it in parts, this time working forwards from the presumption (Blue Shift has made some very good points, by the way) that an alien civilisation has developed sufficiently to produce the technology to venture outside of their own solar system.

Predictably (for me) it begins with the questions of why, then how.

Im convinced your a troll and top marks for making an excellent long thread about nothing! LULZ

JimTSpock
I just got Out of the Blue DVD, it's an excellent doco on UFOs. The US military and government definitely have classified information on the subject of UFOs, and the French military did a report on UFOs which is available which pretty much says UFOs are real and they have detailed information on them. There is no doubt about it UFOs are real and have visited this planet. Anyone who says otherwise has no idea about what information the military has.
The French military report is called Cometa.

www.cufos.org...

That's just one link to a summary of the Cometa report but google it and you can read about it for days.
It is difficult to mount an objective logical argument against this. No other conclusion is possible says the report and I agree.
Please be fully familiar with the material before attempting any arguments against it!
Don't know about you but I'm convinced.

Im going over the Cometa report and I must say I am disappointed. There definitely seems like an agenda here to promote the ETH. It just reads like every other UFOlogy report. Lite on the specific details and heavy on the ETH rhetoric.

example their take on the Twining Memo section 7.6.1

General Twining. head of the Air Material Command, drafted a report on "flying disks, " the conclusions of which are very explicit:
The phenomenon reported is something real; it is not a matter of visions or imagination.
Disk-shaped objects the size of which is comparable to that of our aircraft do exist.
It is possible that some sightings correspond to natural phenomena.
The very high rate-of-climb observed, the maneuverability, and the escape maneuvers when the disks are detected lead one to assume that they are piloted or operated by remote control.
Most witnesses describe objects with a metal surface that are circular or elliptical in shape, the upper portion of which is dome shaped, flying without making any noise in a formation of three to nine objects...

While the general gist is there.. Some of the wording is phrased a little differently than the actual memo and some words are left out.

Here is the section the are paraphrasing:

It is the opinion that:
a. The phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious.
b. There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft.
c. There is a possibility that some of the incidents may be caused by natural phenomena, such as meteors.
d. The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability (particularly in roll), and action which must be considered evasive when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar, lend belief to the possibility that some of the objects are controlled either manually, automatically or remotely.
e. The apparent common description of the objects is as follows:
(1) Metallic or light reflecting surface.

files.ncas.org...
"It is the opinion that" becomes "the conclusions of which are very explicit"
"lend belief to the possibility" becomes "lead one to assume"
"Reported operating characteristics" becomes "when the disks are detected"

Maybe I'm being picky but I like my official documents as they are. Why not just include the twining memo as it is? It's not that big. Why not word for word? Why not the whole memo? Why are they presenting a paraphrased slimed down version with slight changes in the wording that seem to give more edge in favor of ETH?

Why not look at what the rest of the memo says?

h. Due consideration must be given the following: -
(1) The possibility that these objects are of domestic origin - the product of some high security project not known to AC/AS-2 or this Command.
(2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects.
(3) The possibility that some foreign nation has a form of propulsion possibly nuclear, which is outside of our domestic knowledge.

If you read the MEMO it's not a REPORT with CONCLUSIONS, its a request for an investigation of possible Russian technology. note that ET is not mentioned as a possibility but that foreign nations are and so are natural phenomenon.

And than there is this

4. This strange object, or phenomenon, may be considered, in view of certain observations, as long-range aircraft capable of a high rate of climb, high cruising speed (possibly sub-sonic at all times) and highly maneuverable and capable of being flown in very tight formation. For the purpose of analysis and evaluation of the so-called "flying saucer" phenomenon, the object sighted is being assumed to be a manned aircraft, of Russian origin, and based on the perspective thinking and actual accomplishments of the Germans.

www.roswellfiles.com...

I am so tired of trying to be sold something. This is just one thing that happened to catch my attention. It just makes me wonder what else is slightly different than the real thing.

reply to post by ATSZOMBIE


I'm sorry you think that and that is not my intention. The start could have been worded better it was my first one so it's a bit rough and not very well done I know. I didn't really expect it to go on for 16 pages. I think you might be the troll.

In its conclusion, COMETA claims that the physical reality of UFOs, under control of intelligent beings, is "quasi-certain." Only one hypothesis takes into account the available data: the hypothesis of extraterrestrial visitors. This hypothesis is of course unproven, but has far-reaching consequences. The goals of these alleged visitors remain unknown but must be the subject of speculations and prospective scenarios.

www.cufos.org...

Yes that's right it is about 'nothing'.

JimTSpock


Sorry Phage but I disagree. Military report? Defense report? Your splitting hairs. The material is compelling and reaches a definite conclusion. Did you read the link? Because it's very hard to argue against or disagree with. This is a serious report by serious people.

One would think after 6000 years of modern civilization at some point we would actually need something...dare I say it....alien... to say that aliens are here ....