The Living Bible is a History Book

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Okay, I stand corrected on the Library. We don't know who sacked it.

But the Bible is woefully lacking in Egyptian history. Just because some stories are set in Egypt, it's history is not recorded. The building of the pyramids and the Sphinx are not even mentioned. There is no instance that records the annual flooding of the Nile or any Egyptian lore. The Egyptians did leave us a record of their history that's probably more accurate and lengthier than the Bible's history, as Egypt was already thriving when we meet Moses, and was around even before Abraham.

edit on 21-8-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)

Because the OT was written relevant to the Hebrew people and their journey out of Mesopotamia (again, another fact now confirmed by modern science and DNA).

The point is this: The fact you hate it, does not make it any less historically significant. While there are LOADS of arguments to be made against it (for instance we can't explain all the crazy "miraculous" stuff that went on within it, or can we?) it remains a remarkable document insofar as it's historical accuracy is concerned, which was the OP's premise.

You know what else is irrefutable? A small group of what many of the ill-informed refer to as "sheepherders," whom were lacking in political power & marginalized by pretty much everyone that was a "somebody," got a fire lit under them and in turn lit a fire in the hearts of mankind that burns brightly today! Heck Yeah!

That's historical fact.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I see no reason to be stunned that the Jews recorded their history. I do see a reason to doubt the myths and the claim that it is the "word of God." If it weren't for that claim, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It doesn't make it more significant than any of the other historical records that we have from other ancient societies. The writings of Homer, for example, are also filled with historic accuracies and myths. Homer tells the stories of the "gods" but nobody touts it as uncanny and incredible, and nobody calls Homer's writing "God's word" just because it tells the gods' stories.

The Vedas are loaded with historical facts, science, astronomy and myths. We marvel at their content, but don't go around supposing that they are the ineffable word of God.

Originally posted by The GUT
You know what else is irrefutable? A small group of what many of the ill-informed refer to as "sheepherders," whom were lacking in political power & marginalized by pretty much everyone that was a "somebody," got a fire lit under them and in turn lit a fire in the hearts of mankind that burns brightly today! Heck Yeah!

That's historical fact.

I love it. Burn baby burn !

Satellite images showing two extinct rivers. The Pison and the Gihon.

reply to post by randyvs


I can't make those fossil rivers out. Do you have a picture that doesn't have the lines drawn on top of them? They seem to covering the actual thing.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I see no reason to be stunned that the Jews recorded their history. I do see a reason to doubt the myths and the claim that it is the "word of God." If it weren't for that claim, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It doesn't make it more significant than any of the other historical records that we have from other ancient societies. The writings of Homer, for example, are also filled with historic accuracies and myths. Homer tells the stories of the "gods" but nobody touts it as uncanny and incredible, and nobody calls Homer's writing "God's word" just because it tells the gods' stories.

The Vedas are loaded with historical facts, science, astronomy and myths. We marvel at their content, but don't go around supposing that they are the ineffable word of God.

It absolutely DOES make it more significant, because it is generally disregarded by people like yourself, and constantly proving itself correct. It wasn't too long ago the average "intellectual heavy weight" could discount the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. Now, not even religions staunchest opponent (Richard Dawkins) does so. Yet Ironically we still have people like you here, telling us how worthless the bible is, while mentioning what a tragedy the loss of the Library of Alexandria is. While I agree with the latter, I suspect you'd be one of the first in line with a torch if it came down to our own writings (perhaps you'd save ecclesiastes, by your own admission).

The bible has been proven time after time in the face of skepticism. There is a lot more to go, and a lot more work to do (and I'm not saying the entire thing can be proven archaeologically), but it has been proven more valid historically then any other religious text (including the ones you have cited).

reply to post by windword

Originally posted by windword
The Egyptians did leave us a record of their history that's probably more accurate and lengthier than the Bible's history...

NOTHING could be any further from the truth and anyone who actually BELIEVES such things needs to wake up and understand that the truth is ALWAYS covered-up by lies.

Egyptian historians used the art of propaganda through falsification of history as a mind control technique.

"It was also illegal to record any history in Egypt that made the Pharaoh look bad. That is why they did not record the God of the slaves whooping their butts. If any scribe did that, he probably would have been killed. As an Atheist friend of mine who loved Egypt told me, Egyptian history was basically propaganda." Source

“the biggest cover-up in the history of mankind is the history of mankind itself”

“There are two histories: official history, lying, and then secret history, where you find the real causes of events.” ~ Honoré de Balzac

Textreply to post by randyvs


No discussion for me. This horse has been beat to death. The wearers of the black coats (and followers) continue to rattle their tambourines. This 'person of interest' did not die for me. HOWEVER, many of my people, especially the children, have been beaten, raped, murdered, driven from their homeland, etc....in this guy's name. If he honors the treaties that his 'subjects' have drawn up numerous times with the people of this land, then I might be inclined to sit at the fire with him and talk.
But first I would ask myself: WWCHD? (What would Crazy Horse Do?) And act accordingly.

Originally posted by shantyknight
Textreply to post by randyvs

 

No discussion for me. This horse has been beat to death. The wearers of the black coats (and followers) continue to rattle their tambourines. This 'person of interest' did not die for me. HOWEVER, many of my people, especially the children, have been beaten, raped, murdered, driven from their homeland, etc....in this guy's name. If he honors the treaties that his 'subjects' have drawn up numerous times with the people of this land, then I might be inclined to sit at the fire with him and talk.
But first I would ask myself: WWCHD? (What would Crazy Horse Do?) And act accordingly.

I really appreciate your feelings. I'd even like to speak to you about them sometime. But they have NOTHING to do with the OP. ZERO. ZILCH.

You can be bitter all you want. You can rail until you're blue in the face about mankind and what he has done in the name of God. It does not change reality one iota. And the reality is that Archaeology consistently proves the bible to be a semi-accurate historical account (I am being unbiased here, in that there are certain things we haven't corroborated yet).

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I see no reason to be stunned that the Jews recorded their history. I do see a reason to doubt the myths and the claim that it is the "word of God." If it weren't for that claim, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It doesn't make it more significant than any of the other historical records that we have from other ancient societies. The writings of Homer, for example, are also filled with historic accuracies and myths. Homer tells the stories of the "gods" but nobody touts it as uncanny and incredible, and nobody calls Homer's writing "God's word" just because it tells the gods' stories.

The Vedas are loaded with historical facts, science, astronomy and myths. We marvel at their content, but don't go around supposing that they are the ineffable word of God.

It absolutely DOES make it more significant, because it is generally disregarded by people like yourself, and constantly proving itself correct. It wasn't too long ago the average "intellectual heavy weight" could discount the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. Now, not even religions staunchest opponent (Richard Dawkins) does so. Yet Ironically we still have people like you here, telling us how worthless the bible is, while mentioning what a tragedy the loss of the Library of Alexandria is. While I agree with the latter, I suspect you'd be one of the first in line with a torch if it came down to our own writings (perhaps you'd save ecclesiastes, by your own admission).

The bible has been proven time after time in the face of skepticism. There is a lot more to go, and a lot more work to do (and I'm not saying the entire thing can be proven archaeologically), but it has been proven more valid historically then any other religious text (including the ones you have cited).

edit on 22-8-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

So, the Bible is more significant because more people disregard it's truth? The fact that there exists some truth in the Bible doesn't make it all true. It doesn't justify a version of "God" any more than any other sacred text.

I honestly can't wrap my mind around you're thinking that the Bible is more significant than the Vedas, unless you are just unaware of their vast content, and implications.

www.archaeologyonline.net...

A vast number of statements and materials presented in the ancient Vedic literatures can be shown to agree with modern scientific findings and they also reveal a highly developed scientific content in these literatures. The great cultural wealth of this knowledge is highly relevant in the modern world.

Techniques used to show this agreement include:

• Marine Archaeology of underwater sites (such as Dvaraka)

• Satellite imagery of the Indus-Sarasvata River system,

• Carbon and Thermoluminiscence Dating of archaeological artifacts

• Scientific Verification of Scriptural statements

• Linguistic analysis of scripts found on archaeological artifacts

• A Study of cultural continuity in all these categories.

• There are more than 2,500 Archaeological sites, two-thirds of which are along the recently discovered dried up Sarasvati River bed. These sites show a cultural continuity with the Vedic literature from the early Harrapan civilization up to the present day India.

• The significance of establishing this date for the drying up of the Sarasvati River is, that it pushes the date for the composition of the Rig Veda back to approximately 3,000 B.C.E., as enunciated by the Vedic tradition itself.

"Pure in her course from the mountains to the ocean, alone of streams Sarasvati hath listened."

The mighty Sarasvati River and it's civilization are referred to in the Rig Veda more than fifty times, proving that the drying up of the Sarasvati River was subsequent to the origin of the Rig Veda

Rig Veda 10:129. It ponders the mystery of origins and offers more questions than answers.


Who really knows, and who can swear,
How creation came, when or where!
Even gods came after creation’s day,
Who really knows, who can truly say
When and how did creation start?
Did He do it? Or did He not?
Only He, up there, knows, maybe;
Or perhaps, not even He.3

So, the Bible is more significant because more people disregard it's truth? The fact that there exists some truth in the Bible doesn't make it all true. It doesn't justify a version of "God" any more than any other sacred text.

This is a wonderful example of your agenda. I urge everyone reading this thread, to pay special attention to this sentence right here.

reply to post by lambs to lions

If God wanted mindless followers he would not have given us free will.

Note how your answer does nothing to answer my question.

We are but children in God's eyes, is that not "perfect"?

The question is not whether or not we are/were perfect, its where imperfections stem from to begin with. In a Universe where only a good just and loving God exists, a God who then creates human beings, evil and imperfection logically cannot exist. So where is the source of all evil? It can only lead back to the one source of all things, God.

We are an amazing creation imagined by an amazing Creator.

That's great, I love my parents too.

He gave us this world, a blank slate, it is us who choose to harm each other.

If the God of the Bible, the Christian God, 'gave us this world' than why is the Bible littered with his interference with mankind? Why is one of his first acts the brutal slaughter of every living thing except Noah and his family? Puppies, infants, trees, everything, dead because God decided to intervene, because God decided NOT to let us have the world or harm each other. So much for free will eh

An eternity to explore, laugh, love, and dedicate ourselves to satisfying our creative passions without the burdens of evil.

Have you ever actually played with the idea of eternity? Human beings can't even fill all their time here on Earth without growing bored, you honestly think after 15 trillion years of treading the same golden streets to worship your golden God upon a throne you're REALLY gonna be happy? Unless you believe happiness is mandatory in Heaven, in which case there goes free will again.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by randyvs

 

I can't make those fossil rivers out. Do you have a picture that doesn't have the lines drawn on top of them? They seem to covering the actual thing.

Alright I was hoping you wouldn't notice that.

I'm on it let me see what I can do ?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I'd like to take a stab at this, point by point, but it's randy's thread, so he gets first dibs

reply to post by shantyknight

No discussion for me. This horse has been beat to death. The wearers of the black coats (and followers) continue to rattle their tambourines. This 'person of interest' did not die for me. HOWEVER, many of my people, especially the children, have been beaten, raped, murdered, driven from their homeland, etc....in this guy's name. If he honors the treaties that his 'subjects' have drawn up numerous times with the people of this land, then I might be inclined to sit at the fire with him and talk. But first I would ask myself: WWCHD? (What would Crazy Horse Do?) And act accordingly.

That's all good with me Shanty but one thing if I may ? I would simply remind you that you make your choice as a man, not as a people. And this really isn't just the White Mans God thing going on here. These are to the best of my knowledge communications from what you may know to be the Great Spirit, Great Grand Father Great Father. So please restrain yourself from that bitter card and join us. The time for bitterness and war between races is long past my good man.

By join us I mean at least in this discussion.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

So, the Bible is more significant because more people disregard it's truth? The fact that there exists some truth in the Bible doesn't make it all true. It doesn't justify a version of "God" any more than any other sacred text.

This is a wonderful example of your agenda. I urge everyone reading this thread, to pay special attention to this sentence right here.

edit on 22-8-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

I've read this over and over, and I don't know what you're talking about. What agenda is my observation exposing? My assertation that the Bible is not the "word of God?"

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

Note how your answer does nothing to answer my question.

I didn't see your question to Randy but I am willing to try to address it myself.

The question is not whether or not we are/were perfect, its where imperfections stem from to begin with. In a Universe where only a good just and loving God exists, a God who then creates human beings, evil and imperfection logically cannot exist. So where is the source of all evil? It can only lead back to the one source of all things, God.

This is a philosophical question, and one you have failed at positing. Obviously, the origin of Evil stems from God. WHY, you have not ventured to ask, here.

That's great, I love my parents too.

Do you have kids?

If the God of the Bible, the Christian God, 'gave us this world' than why is the Bible littered with his interference with mankind? Why is one of his first acts the brutal slaughter of every living thing except Noah and his family? Puppies, infants, trees, everything, dead because God decided to intervene, because God decided NOT to let us have the world or harm each other. So much for free will eh

I love how you insert bunnies in here, and words like "brutal slaughter". Examine the scripture for what it is, or do not discuss it.

Have you ever actually played with the idea of eternity? Human beings can't even fill all their time here on Earth without growing bored, you honestly think after 15 trillion years of treading the same golden streets to worship your golden God upon a throne you're REALLY gonna be happy? Unless you believe happiness is mandatory in Heaven, in which case there goes free will again.

What exactly makes you so sure that God's plan for mankind is to sit around on clouds and play harps in paradise? could you possibly have a more medieval view of Christianity?

What about the prospect of propagating the Universe, exploring, and learning? It's big out there.

reply to post by Murgatroid

"It was also illegal to record any history in Egypt that made the Pharaoh look bad. That is why they did not record the God of the slaves whooping their butts. If any scribe did that, he probably would have been killed. As an Atheist friend of mine who loved Egypt told me, Egyptian history was basically propaganda." Source

You source link doesn't work.

So how do we know this is true? Some kind of history from Egypt?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

"It was also illegal to record any history in Egypt that made the Pharaoh look bad. That is why they did not record the God of the slaves whooping their butts. If any scribe did that, he probably would have been killed. As an Atheist friend of mine who loved Egypt told me, Egyptian history was basically propaganda." Source

You source link doesn't work.

So how do we know this is true? Some kind of history from Egypt?

Try common knowledge. I'm not even an Egyptologist and I know this is true. There were entire stories and hieroglyphic histories ordered to be over written. Surely even you watch the discovery channel.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Not unlike the Bible!