Israel Wants Egyptian Forces out of Sinai

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you were the owner of all reason and knowledge.

I certainly never claimed to be. It's just when you present disputable opinion as fact you should expect to be called out on it.

"That is your misguided opinion and nothing more."

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you were the owner of all reason and knowledge.

Also I do not believe Egypt is going to risk a war as I clearly explained my curiosity in the situation that is unfolding, and named various reasons and possibilities which I admitted were nothing more than speculation on my behalf.

But for you to downplay the recent developments as nothing more than the ongoing back and forth tit for tat that has been going on since the seventies is quite naiive considering what is happening. You can also say it is an overreaction on my behalf due to a few news articles, but Israel has even claimed that these actions by Egypt are in violation of the treaty so at least in Israel's opinion which you seem to be in agreeance with then the treaty has been broken.

Now Israel is asking them to leave the Sinai, which is quite a bold request on Israel's behalf considering their track record over the last 70 years.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Obviously, you have never been in conflict. You see men lose their bowels and piss themselves and they don't even know it.

I can't believe you would cast around Fear as an insult in war. Every man out there is scared and if he isn't. I promise you. He will be one of the first to die.

Your ignorance shows with you using Fear as an insult to a nation who is about to face war.

-------

Three progressive stages happen in the face of a soldier who hasn't seen combat.

1) The shock and confusion of being shot at.
2) Laughter at how bad a shot the enemy is.
3) Fear / Fatigue / Depression set in knowing that eventually, they aren't going to miss.

Your veterans, believe it or not, do not make good shock troops.

reply to post by milkyway12

Obviously, you have never been in conflict. You see men lose their bowels and piss themselves and they don't even know it.

Okay Rambo

You Jingos act like conflict is something to brag about, you are brainwashed, go do some soul searching and stop acting like your "service" is something to brag about.

I can't believe you would cast around Fear as an insult in war.

I did nothing of the sort, are you on illegal substances?

Your ignorance shows with you using Fear as an insult to a nation who is about to face war.

Your ignorance shows you lack reading comprehension...see above.

Three progressive stages happen in the face of a soldier who hasn't seen combat.

1) The shock and confusion of being shot at.
2) Laughter at how bad a shot the enemy is.
3) Fear / Fatigue / Depression set in knowing that eventually, they aren't going to miss.

Your veterans, believe it or not, do not make good shock troops.

This isn't a PTSD therapy session Rambo so please calm down, I think you posted in the wrong thread because NOTHING you mentioned related to ANYTHING I posted.

Good luck with your issues.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by milkyway12

 

Obviously, you have never been in conflict. You see men lose their bowels and piss themselves and they don't even know it.

Okay Rambo

You Jingos act like conflict is something to brag about, you are brainwashed, go do some soul searching and stop acting like your "service" is something to brag about.

I think he was speaking in regards to the entire situation as a whole, and the severe implications that this conflict and a possible coming war would have.
The problem with turning the situation at hand from "real" to conspiracy is that we tend to forget that although these leaders are controlled puppets 99.9% of the population is innocent and at the mercy of their governments. We keep seeing this as puppet vs. puppet, yet we fail to grasp the concept that millions upon millions of lives are at risk for an agenda that is becoming clearer by the hour.

Originally posted by morethanyou

Your so far from the truth your making your own friends here sick.

Myth: Israel's attack was unprovoked.

Fact: In speeches for at least the previous two years, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser had been threatening war. Terrorists supported by Syria and Egypt dramatically increased their attacks, from 41 raids in 1966 to 37 in the first four months of 1967. Syria used the Golan Heights as a platform to continue the shelling Israeli villages near the Jordan River and Lake Kinneret (Sea of Galilee). On April 7, 1967 Israeli retaliated, shooting down six Russian-built Syrian MiG fighters. Early in May, Moscow falsely told Syria that Israel was mobilizing forces for a massive attack. Syria then invoked its joint defense treaty with Egypt.

On May 15, Israeli Independence Day, Egypt began moving troops into the Sinai Peninsula toward Israel's borders. The following day, it requested that the United Nations Emergency Force — installed to help keep peace after the 1956 Sinai Campaign — evacuate, which UNEF did. By May 18, Syrian troops were ready for battle along Israel's northern frontier. The same day the Voice of the Arabs radio declared that "we shall not complain any more to the U.N. about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."

On May 22, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and all foreign ships bound for Israel's Red Sea port of Eilat, an act of war that cut the route from Israel's main oil supplier, Iran. Nasser continued to threaten Israel, asserting on May 27 that coexistence was out of the question and that "the war with Israel is in existence since 1948." Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30. Other Arab countries sent forces to Egypt and Jordan to assist, and by June 4, approximately 250,000 enemy troops with more than 2,000 tanks and 700 aircraft surrounded Israel. By then on a socially and economically unsustainable alert for three weeks, Israel's best option was to pre-empt Arab attack, which it did on June 5, first knocking out the Egyptian air force. Years later, Salah al-Hadidi, the Egyptian judge presiding over trials of army officers held accountable for the his country's defeat, admitted Egypt's responsibility for causing the war: "I can state that Egypt's political leadership called Israel to war. It clearly provoked Israel and forced it into a confrontation" (Michael Oren, Six Days of War, 310-11).

Spot on mate! Atleast someone here knows it's facts!

Small addition: Israel was so succesfull,because of their suprise attack to claim air supremacy and because they could reload wave after wave alot faster then the other countries could to get planes in the air effectively.
Also the egyptian military command was in dissaray if im not mistaken and unable to communicate with their defences. (hope i remember everything correct from my history lessons at the academy! ;-))
And i remember something about the tanks.

The second war was more interesting though, they almost managed to finish israel because they learned of its last mistake against the israeli air force and used anti air and anti tank units. I believe syria eventually made the mistake to press too fast leaving the protective umbrella of their anti air, causing a massacre and forcing egypt to come to their rescue. In turn they went too fast and also got hit hard (also because late weapon shipments from the us finally arrived for israel to turn the tide.) Please excuse me if i made a few mistakes, it's been a few years and i can't find my notes from class.

Class dismissed!

Oh i forgot, Egypt backstabbed Russia by switching sides with the US when they were losing (during the Cease Fire period) and as a result they were giving the sinai area back as a favour from the US.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I certainly never claimed to be. It's just when you present disputable opinion as fact you should expect to be called out on it.

Hilarious how you consider able to be the judge of that.

Just be careful not to fall down.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you were the owner of all reason and knowledge.

Mature, very mature.

I clearly explained my curiosity in the situation that is unfolding (...) which I admitted were nothing more than speculation on my behalf.

It's just when you present disputable opinion as fact you should expect to be called out on it.

I love when people contradict them-selfs.

But for you to downplay the recent developments as nothing more than the ongoing back and forth tit for tat that has been going on since the seventies is quite naiive considering what is happening.

I always hear people saying "considering what is happening", but then people always fail to mention what is actually happening that gives strength to their opinions.

Are you aware of the Syrian invasion of Israel in the 70's? That conflict alone (a huge tank battle) puts to shame anything that is going on in our days. It looks worst than before because you are watching it unfold. If you stick to facts, and educate yourself a little (instead of trying to mock those who do not share your opinion) on the real realities of that region, you would notice that this is just the on-going conflict based policy that has ever existed in that place since Israel was born.

The matter of fact is, if people would know what they are talking about instead of playing "I'm a political/conflict expert on a forum!", they would be aware that there hasn't been an increase in the violence in the Middle East. It just seems it's worst because they were able to have some relative peace (or calm) in the last decade or so, compared to past decades, apart from the U.S. interventions.

Before that? Desert Storm. Before that? Here is a list of the conflicts in the Middle East in the past century.

Apart from the usual Israeli offensives in Gaza and territory annexation, they haven't been much offensive, neither have been attacked recently.

The only pertinent issue now is Iran. That's the only stone in Israel's shoe.

You can also say it is an overreaction on my behalf due to a few news articles, but Israel has even claimed that these actions by Egypt are in violation of the treaty

It is your overreaction.

I would actually enjoy reading that Israel statement (official) that states such a thing... Mostly because:

Egypt and Israel are cooperating.

Egypt is preparing to use aircraft and tanks in Sinai for the first time since the 1973 war with Israel in its offensive against militants in the border area, security sources said on Monday.

Further down the article it states:

Israeli officials, who say they are in regular contact with Cairo, have encouraged Egypt to take tough action against the gunmen responsible for the assault and have previously allowed the use of helicopters in the operation.

You don't seem much of a political expert with valid opinions now, do you?

so at least in Israel's opinion which you seem to be in agreeance with

No, that's your weakness in debate starting to show, and trying to rally support by painting me as an Israel supporter. I'm not, I just stick with facts.

so at least in Israel's opinion (...) the treaty has been broken.

Yes, that's why they are giving Egypt all the support, including sending all the proof of the attack they have to Egyptian authorities...

Now Israel is asking them to leave the Sinai, which is quite a bold request on Israel's behalf considering their track record over the last 70 years.

Israel isn't asking them to leave. That's oversimplifying the issue.

Israel is coordinating the operation with Egypt, that isn't the same thing as saying they will agree on everything.

The fact that both countries are cooperating shows the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.

Mind pointing out where I said Israels attack was unprovoked? I never did I just said the pulled a sneak attack on Egypt which is exactly what they did their term for it was preemptive strike. Next time I'll try to dumb it down enough so some of you will understand what I'm saying.

And just so that everyone understands what is really going on, I will add one more article from reuters:

Jihadist group warns Egyptian army over Sinai crackdown

An Islamist militant group operating in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula bordering with Israel warned the Egyptian army on Wednesday that an ongoing military crackdown on jihadists in the area will force it to fight back.

The Egyptian army has been hunting militants in the Sinai desert since an attack last week on Egyptian border guards that killed 16 soldiers. Egypt blamed the attack on Islamist militants.

It is in the best interest of both Israel and Egypt that this situation gets under control.

Israel doesn't want to be bothered in the Sinai border, and Egypt doesn't want any links of possible threats coming from that area either.

The only thing you can plausibly say about the peace treaty, is that it has been broken in theory, not in real terms.

They have been sending forces to Sinai, and that has bothered some Israelis, but the Israel government has allowed that action because although it violates the directives in the peace treaty, it's a cooperation action with the best outcome for both parties.

In a way, they are actually preserving that peace in the area by not allowing jihadists groups operate freely in a DMZ...

Disorder has spread in North Sinai, a region with many guns and much resentment over neglect by Cairo. Bedouin tribes now control some areas that were cleared by Egyptian police during last year's uprising against Mubarak, who had worked closely with Israel to secure the border region.

Mursi, who took office in June, has promised to restore stability.

READ THE NEWS BUT THINK FOR YOURSELF'S!

Originally posted by stumason
Israel agreed last year for Egypt to station 7 battalions, including tanks and helo's but Egypt never deployed the full amount. Now they have, with a few more on top (operational need?) after the latest round of attacks and Israel agreed not two weeks ago that Egypt could mount an offensive against Jihadi's.

I am baffled as to why the story is now being spun to look like Egypt is some sort of aggressor. They are operating with the full knowledge of the Israeli's!

I don't think it's like that at all - Israel agreed to allow a temporary increase in forces, those forces did a job, now they want to restore forces to the original level. What is wrong with that?

I se nothing wrong with hte request - except a bunch of BS spin being applied to it trying to make out it is breaking a treaty as a prelude to war or some such nonsense

I sure hope the US stays out of this as we have no dogs in this fight.
Hopefully all of the Arab and or Muslim countries will unite to rid themselves of this Euro trailer trash we call israelis.
Sure would save the US a bunch of cash and weapons if the terrorist state of israel fell!

How dare Egypt bolster their defenses on their own borders! Time for Israel to invade!



Mossad sneaks into Egypt all the time, at least Egypt stays within it's own borders.

Israel has been stealing land in the region for decades and they will look for any excuse to take more so Egypt better be careful even they though have done nothing wrong. The Israel liar media will try and turn this into a we must protect Israel topic just like some members on here are trying to do.

Originally posted by FactFactor
How dare Egypt bolster their defenses on their own borders! Time for Israel to invade!

Mossad sneaks into Egypt all the time, at least Egypt stays within it's own borders.

Israel has been stealing land in the region for decades and they will look for any excuse to take more so Egypt better be careful even they though have done nothing wrong. The Israel liar media will try and turn this into a we must protect Israel topic just like some members on here are trying to do.

You do know that Egypt occupies a significant portion of Israel's territory don't you?

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb

Originally posted by FactFactor
How dare Egypt bolster their defenses on their own borders! Time for Israel to invade!

Mossad sneaks into Egypt all the time, at least Egypt stays within it's own borders.

Israel has been stealing land in the region for decades and they will look for any excuse to take more so Egypt better be careful even they though have done nothing wrong. The Israel liar media will try and turn this into a we must protect Israel topic just like some members on here are trying to do.

You do know that Egypt occupies a significant portion of Israel's territory don't you?

Ooooh boy. You're opening up a can of worms using an ancient map and then saying God gave it to them. That claim won't hold water in this day and age no matter how many people believe it to be true.

listen to this, this is all pre planned, egypt will go to war with israel, and they will be destroyed, as a result greater israel will be created, and it will extend from the nile to the euphrates

Jews and Palestinians lived peacefully there for thousands of years in Palestine until the zionist bankers used the Balfour declaration with the help of the UN to create the imposter state of Israel to cause further subdivide and murder in the region.

God did not promise the land unconditionally. remember when the jews were made to wander in the desert for 40 years when they disobeyed. The grant of the land is not unconditional to go rape and murder. They were banishe3d from the holy land because of their mischief and now with the UN and US backing they are back their again, causing mischief. The true Israelites in this case are the Palestinians

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

They were banishe3d from the holy land because of their mischief and now with the UN and US backing they are back their again, causing mischief. The true Israelites in this case are the Palestinians

Replacement theory is a lie from the bowels of hell. also, these verses throw a huge dent in your theory.

Jeremiah 23:1-6

“ Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!” declares the Lord. 2 Therefore thus says the Lord God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are [a]tending My people: “You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds,” declares the Lord. 3 “Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply. 4 I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the Lord.

5 “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“When I will raise up for David a righteous [c] Branch;
And He will reign as king and [d]act wisely
And do justice and righteousness in the land.
6 “In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell securely;
And this is His name by which He will be called,
‘The Lord our righteousness.’

And:

Jeremiah 32:37-44

37 Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands to which I have driven them in My anger, in My wrath and in great indignation; and I will bring them back to this place and make them dwell in safety. 38 They shall be My people, and I will be their God; 39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them. 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me. 41 I will rejoice over them to do them good and will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and with all My soul. 42 For thus says the Lord, ‘ Just as I brought all this great disaster on this people, so I am going to bring on them all the good that I am promising them. 43 Fields will be bought in this land of which you say, “ It is a desolation, without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.” 44 Men will buy fields for money, sign and seal deeds, and call in witnesses in the land of Benjamin, in the environs of Jerusalem, in the cities of Judah, in the cities of the hill country, in the cities of the lowland and in the cities of the Negev; for I will restore their fortunes,’ declares the Lord.”

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 “ Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “ I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The land covenant was established through Abraham and confirmed by Jacob who God renamed Israel, his covenants he does not break, well my God doesn't break his covenants. Yours might since he allows lying, but not mine.

Jeremiah 31:35-37

35 Thus says the Lord,
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The Lord of hosts is His name:
36 “ If this fixed order departs
From before Me,” declares the Lord,
“Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”

37 Thus says the Lord,

“ If the heavens above can be measured
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel
For all that they have done,” declares the Lord.

edit on 21-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Jews and Palestinians lived peacefully there for thousands of years in Palestine until the zionist bankers used the Balfour declaration with the help of the UN to create the imposter state of Israel to cause further subdivide and murder in the region.

Yeah - as long as you ignore the smiting of various Caananites, massacres every now & then by Romans, Byzantines, Christians, Islamic overlords - yeah - apart from all those and the associated revolts etc., it was a picture of peaceful coexistance.

This place is so full of hate ... Israel is utterly surrounded by muslims that want nothing more than an entire race of people dead. Also, dont give me the line about the land belonged to the palestinians, if you really knew history you would know that they are refugees from arab nations ... in fact before it was the fertile land it is today, (thanks to the jews that came back to the land) Mark Twain visited and described it has a wasteland of desert. Palestine only exists in name because of what the Romans did when they sacked Israel and destroyed the capital almost 2000 years ago.

So, why are you guys so racist against the jews? They run the world? ... what a crock! Go on Google earth and look at how much land Israel is compared to all the muslim brotherhood run nations around them... hate is the only reason these nations want Israel destroyed, its the same hate of Adolf Hitler when the jews were living peacefully in Europe.

Originally posted by Infinipus
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Israel scared?

With the might of the US firmly behind them?

Israel do not need the USA. They whipped three countries in six days on their own in '67. (the only country to finish a war started by others so fast).

If we could invest in shares on Israel's future, I'd be a rich man.