The New Civil War: Christians VS... Antichristians

Start a thread on spirituality, or Jesus, or Allah, and watch how fast the atheists come to it yadda yadda.

Start a thread on how atheists can't comprehend god or be moral without god etc... and watch all the Christians come out of the closet to attack and demean atheists, yadda yadda.

Originally posted by autowrench

Yes, sadly it is a war, or at least, war talk. This is why I wish the Vatican would give up all of it's secrets and set things straight. Or a goggle of UFOs land in the White House lawn. We need something to show for the fight, why not that? I am against war, and killing, but will if necessary. It is not me personally that is putting Christianity on trial, it is the World. Face it now, or face it later, your choice. I think the trends will continue.

Precisely. You have experienced (well, your family has) attacks from christians, and christians are experiencing attack. As you say, this is a trend. I don't think it will stop.
As you brillantly pointed out, we need something completey new, something all could unite under, a new idea which hasn't been splattered with blood. I am glad we actually agree on this subject.

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by swan001
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

I see. "you enjoy it". That's all I needed to hear. Thanks for admitting it. You need to find another hobby than using ATS to attack christians just "for fun". This site's T&C clearly defines and disapprove this kind of behaviour. I happen to agree with this T&C.

Well I am not amused by what I do,nor do I do it for fun in fact, the research alone is hard work. The reason I do it is because I am concerned. A Christians beliefs and faith are literally set in stone, and can never change.....while all the time we have a changing world that will only keep changing.

Well here I wasn't adressing to you, I was adressing to this guy which said he enjoyed trolling, but thanks for your input anyway.

reply to post by autowrench



reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Sure, but do not forget that science/atheism, rejection of moral laws and loss of morality standards, of which religions were the main providers, gave birth to a complete unstable world when some godless, moral-less scientific individual built this:



The nuclear bomb, capable of reducing nations to ashes, cultures to obliviation.

Extreme religion is bad, but extreme atheism is as dangerous for the survival of our planet. One must find a middle point, a middle point that many ATSers are too afraid to search for, because it would mean no more conflicts. And, as I have seen, some "enjoy" conflict around here:

Originally posted by detachedindividual


With all due respect, I am one of those who argues with Christians on ATS. I enjoy it, it's actually quite funny a lot of the time.

I am not saying that religion is the good guys. Far from it: I say both made very deep mistakes. We need to wake up, think something else.

reply to post by swan001


Since you want to steer it in that direction, let's try this question for size:

If we had not demonstrated the power of the atomic bomb, how much longer would the war have lasted? How many innocent lives would that have cost? What country would have ended on top? What would the all-around cost be, for sparing the use of such force?

It wouldn't have ended the same way. It would have taken longer, cost more, and possibly given the victory to a different nation.

Is that what you would have wanted?

reply to post by swan001

As you brillantly pointed out, we need something completey new, something all could unite under

We need to fuse science with religion, to show everyone how materialism affects spirituality, how spirit affects the material, and how we need to change to save this world.

We need to fuse the old with the new. We need to fuse black and white. We need to reconcile the two faces of the coin, and create a new virtue. We must balance.

reply to post by The Old American

Start a thread on spirituality, or Jesus, or Allah, and watch how fast the atheists come to it yadda yadda. I made it clear I believe they're both full of self-righteous furor.

I myself am into Spiritualism, why would I attack that? Friend, I am not an Atheist, I am just very well read and studied on the Bible(s) Christianity, and Religious Theology in general, and when I see a Christian post something I know it not true, and I see a lot of that in here, I just tell them the truth of the matter. Nothing more or less. I cannot blame Christians for lying, when the lies have been taught them, pounding into their heads, for many years now, from generation to generation. I have seen for myself the brainwashing tricks preachers use to get your money.

reply to post by swan001


It's refreshing to see this issue addressed intelligently from a non christian perspective. Hats off to you, sir.

reply to post by swan001

Yes, sadly I have been attacked, harassed, called vile names, and insulted by Christians trying to convert me for most of my life. That is what sparked by 25 years of research on Christianity. I figured, is they are so adamant about it, there must be something to it, right? Then I began to uncover things Christians do not know, and do not want to know. Even if I tell them in here, they still cannot read it, for that post the same things over and over again, just like a propaganda minister would do. That thought sparked this thread:
Is Christianity Really Brainwashing?
Personally I think all of the ORGANIZED religions are deep into mind control and brainwashing. And so far, no body has proven me wrong.

I am a recently born again Christian.

It is not my place to judge or mettle into any of your affairs.

I can bring to the table information I find and voice an opinion but judging any of you is not my place with the exception of anyone that harms or abuses a child or animal (animal for food is different).

Jesus said repeatedly over and over more than anything else, if memory serves me correctly, "Judge ye not, least ye be judged."

I have everything I can do to make sure I stay on the straight and narrow.

Yes I will voice my opinion that personally I think Lady Gaga, Madonna, Marilyn Manson are not wholesome entertainment - but that is my own opinion.

Someone is trying to stir up trouble - the first step towards prophecy is to get the non-Christians to start persecuting the Christians and I can see it coming.

Now "Christians" that sprew hate for homosexuals, Muslims, etc - ANY KIND OF HATE - is a pretend Christian.

Christ said, "A new commandment I give unto you. Love one another as I have loved you. Love one another."

I am not starring the opening post or any of the posts because I'm going to fly by this one fast..........in and out.

Hate - disunity - judging another is not our place. I may be called a radical Christian but after reading what Christ said, he spoke of love, understanding and not judging.

Again, I have everything I can do to keep track of myself.

Again, I will say that I do, in my heart now believe that to take any child or animal and mistreat them is wrong - that is a judgement on my part. Harm none.

Do not steal, lie, cheat, covert your neighbors goods, commit adultry, etc..............well I'm worrying about making sure me, myself and I are abiding by God's laws.

Stirring up trouble, a deceitful way of manipulating hatred among each other is very bad to do.

Jesus was about love, sharing and caring.

The world (for now) belongs to satan (MOO-My own belief) but God, our Father has him on a short leash and soon he is going to stomp the snot out of this hateful entity - and that what satan promotes, hate, violence, selfishness, greed, lust, all the junk that is destroying our planet because so many of those in power sold their souls.

Where there is hatred, violence, the harming of another - you will find lucifer, the trickster.

Jesus meant for us to love each other.

My mother in law was the best Christian I ever met. She never preached at all. She never offered advice unless she was asked......................she spoke volumes by her actions of kindness and not judging.

Stop the hatred, stop promoting the hatred,

Many of the born again Christians I worked with were not real Christians. They were mean, deceitful, judgmental and believed that only they were the chosen ones.

Somehow and I know some good Christians will call me on this.................there are many good decent people that have not accepted Jesus as their savior. I cannot believe that they will be damned for all eternity.

I simply do not know or judge, that is not my place or my job to judge.

My job is to inform in a respectful manner via discussion and to make sure I do what I'm suppose to be doing.

May each of you gain some peace and stop the hate....................there is already too much hate in the world.

The hate is what is bring us down into the abyss..

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I'd like to show you an example of why I disapprove. Let me lead into it by saying that "God" never gave us free will, and I can prove it.

"Now, to explain the question and answer it: "Did God give us free will...or did the fruit?"

It's clear that our poor choices come from our free will, as do our good choices. But the mere act of choosing implies there's more than one option, some more desirable than other options. But how do you know it's more desirable? Because you know where the other option will lead. You know, and you don't like it. This means that the ability to recognize a good option comes from the freedom to make bad choices.

Now, in the story, before Eve and Adam partook of the fruit of knowledge, they were obviously pious or gracious or pure or whatever enough to stay in the Garden of Eden, right? But when the opportunity came to disobey the one command they were given, they broke the rule. Why? Because they didn't have the experience to say no. They'd never made that mistake before, so how were they to know what lay down that path?

When you don't have the freedom to make mistakes, you don't have free will. "God" prevented them from having the opportunity to stumble, until the fruit became involved. And according to Christian faith, he punished them by throwing them from the garden. Because the fruit showed them both positive and negative, and with that knowledge came free will. The freedom to make mistakes.

"God" didn't give us free will. The fruit did."

Free Will :

noun
1.
free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.


If Adam and Eve were created without free will, they would not have been able to choose to eat the fruit after being forbidden by God.

Sorry, don't mean to derail but it was killing me a little bit that no one pointed that out.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
We need to fuse science with religion, to show everyone how materialism affects spirituality, how spirit affects the material, and how we need to change to save this world.

We need to fuse the old with the new. We need to fuse black and white. We need to reconcile the two faces of the coin, and create a new virtue. We must balance.

Yes, precisely what I was thinking. We need to come up with the best of both worlds, and shed the bad parts away.

reply to post by autowrench


Although I agree that religions are used to steer the minds of bilions of people, I want also to point out an important question to you: What would happen if no more laws existed. Anarchy, and dis-evolution.
Beleive it or not, you and me think alot the same way: Why? But adding one more question to that, What if, can surely help us explaining the Why.

reply to post by swan001


I agree with you here, Swan. But consider this: if peace and harmony are the aims of Christianity, then why is there such a long list of people who will go to hell?

Why make it so easy to judge one another? Because if "God" is truly omniscient, he had to have known what would happen. He had to know all the good lives that would be tormented because of those laws. He had to have known how much more inconvenient and unfair those rules were, rather than helping us.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by swan001

 

I agree with you here, Swan. But consider this: if peace and harmony are the aims of Christianity, then why is there such a long list of people who will go to hell?

I spoke of that with my christian friend here on ATS. I too asked myself that, and needed to answer exactly what you just asked me.
Well, believe it or not, this preacher christian friend of mine actually don't believe in "hell" as most christian do. He suggested something entirely new, that God actually wanted man to find sin, because, logically, the only way mankind can turn away from sin is by knowing what sin is in the first place. He thinks that the fact no humans, nor characters of the Bible, were ever 100% pure and sin-less (other, maybe, than Jesus) and the fact that some of them actually went to heaven even if they sinned a bit, means that there is no hell, no threshold.

Of course, I am only quoting him here, I am not an actual believer in christian's God concept.

I used to think it was politics ONLY, until, of all people, GLENN BECK got it right: the new left is working with "liberal" muslims (who are really conservatives but share the same fantasy of americas collapse)

reply to post by HamrHeed


And, also, don't forget that left and right are both controlled from behind... a super-party, which also controls the UN.

Originally posted by swan001
reply to post by HamrHeed

 

And, also, don't forget that left and right are both controlled from behind... a super-party, which also controls the UN.

OOh it goes much further than that. Into china and russia for sure.
When will people wake up and realize the super elite see us as parasites? Meanwhile they live off our taxes, death and suffering.
A world order is inevitable, the question is whether you want ex nazis and powerful inbreds making the rules. Our countries are already spun with webs of laws, and the spider calmly moves into position, never tripping


Edit: food for thought:why is the un even CONSIDERED for recog.?

reply to post by HamrHeed


Precisely. The NWO never trips because people are blind... They control the people's eyes: the Media. I still am in awe when I see how efficient they are... I am actually studying their technique, trying to "reverse its technology". It's quite fascinating... they are like Moriarty, in Sherlock Holmes, but 100 times more powerfull and cunning.