The Truth About Rape

reply to post by Charmed707

With women being taught that they aren't responsible for their actions, that they are completely helpless in what happens to them, and that they can claim 'rape' after having sex that they regret, this puts more men in danger of being falsely accused and prosecuted. If I had to choose, I'd rather be the victim of an actual rape than to be the victim of a false accusation of a crime as serious as rape.

I do not believe that women are taught they are not responsible for their actions. This is where you and I can choose to part ways in the dicussion.

Regret sex really is a topic that again, muddies the waters in a topic that is about true rape, and in fact, has derailed the conversation wonderfully. Regret sex, date rape, false allegations of rape, these are all things that really deserve topics of their own, individually, because each one encompasses so many varying factors.

I have to admit that I am astonished by your claims above. I would personally choose "NONE of the above" after having been involved in both scenarios.

An actual rape is a life sentence. This is why, as I pointed out, most men, women, and children choose to use the term rape survivor. Your life, and the life of your family and those that know and love you will be indellibly changed forever.

Your behaviour, trust issues, the feeling of always having to look over your shoulder, all of it will never go away. Nor will the rage that will pour forth from you if some poor soul ever makes the bad decision to attempt to victimize you again.

Because, not only will you have taken self defense classes until you can and do do them in your sleep, but the feelings and emotions you literally have nowhere to place will come out in his face when he dares to step from the dark one foreboding night to touch you. You will leave but a smear on the sidewalk. And you wish for this?

The same is true for false rape allegations. Especially since, in some states, rape convictions can still get you the chair. False allegations of rape also affect a lot of people, but it is particularly hard on the defendant and their family, in particular knowing the person is innocent, but having a prosecutor that is hell bent on convicting them.

Either way, either choice is horrible, and not something anyone in their right mind would choose.

None of the above, if I had a choice. The outcome in either case, is poor.

reply to post by James1982


perhaps read my post here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

which is my stance. It answers some of what you posted I hope.


Cheers Z

reply to post by pajoly


Very well said. When I was much younger, I was in one of those "drunken girl makes bad choice" scenarios. I passed out at someone's house. Long story short at the convincing of some friends, I was taken to the police station to fill out a report. It was the single most humiliating experience of my life. I wound up not pressing charges, letting the case drop.

Most women will not report a rape for the reasons you listed in your post. I was raped again that year by someone I knew. I never reported that rape. I was too ashamed and didn't tell anyone until I was in my 30s the full story of what happened. I found out 7 years ago that the man who raped me had been arrested for molesting a child. I beat myself up for years thinking, "If only I..."

Rapes are very hard to prove. Unless as mentioned the "attack" was violent. Unless the rapist left behind DNA evidence, semen or blood, hair or skin on the victim - rapes are virtually impossible to prove. And thus, many women do not report rapes. Which unfortunately, causes a vicious cycle - rapists most often don't stop at one rape. And unless convicted of a rape, they will continue to rape until they are caught by the authorities.

Rape is a life changing experience. It stays with you. How you choose to deal with it however, makes you either a survivor or victim. I choose to be a survivor.

reply to post by Charmed707


I would explain to her that if she didn't intend on having sex then the correct action would be for him to drop her off home, or to go somewhere afterwards for a coffee, because generally 'going home' with someone does tend to infer sex.

BUT, if she did intend to have sex, but had a change of heart, I would expect the man to respect her change of heart.

Yes, the argument isn't about the good and bad people. It's about those who hold the opinion that a woman is somehow at fault, which you HAVE supposed in a previous post.

Yes, a woman can avoid getting into OBVIOUS bad situations....like dark alleys and whatnot, but drinks at a bar?!? That's a sociopath and clearly not her fault, no matter how much she flirts or rubs or touches him. Only someone mentally ill cannot respect her choice to be overtly flirtatious but not want sex.

What is your 'official' stance?

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by James1982

 

perhaps read my post here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

which is my stance. It answers some of what you posted I hope.


Cheers Z

edit on 21-8-2012 by zazzafrazz because: (no reason given)

Nope, didn't really answer anything. Nothing in that post related to anything I posted or any questions I proposed.

It's a pretty simple question, really. Should women be told they are helpless and can't do anything about it, or told they are strong and able to defend themselves and lower their chance of something bad happening? I have no idea why you keep dancing around answering it, it's not some trick question or something.

reply to post by smyleegrl


While the site you point to lists many 'Facts' Why did you leave this one out?

Myth: Women fantasize about being raped.

Fact: No woman fantasizes about being raped. Fantasies about aggressive sex may be controlled and turned off if they become threatening. In rape, the victim is unable to control the violence and stop it.

Fact:Many women have a 'rape' fantasy. Well documented.

Although I will always agree that rape is a violent and personal assault, the fact is that many women have a fantasy of being taken against their will.

Any man knows the pillow talk of a woman will often bring this fantasy to the surface,

To say that it is a myth makes me believe that the writer of the column has an agenda that is not unbiased and perhaps may be a personal piece RATHER THAN A WELL RESEARCHED AND UNBIASED APPROACH.

Fact: Many women have fantasies of rape, forced sex and domination.

Peace

reply to post by Charmeine

Rape is a life changing experience. It stays with you. How you choose to deal with it however, makes you either a survivor or victim. I choose to be a survivor.

Bless you for posting your story too, as it may just help others to understand.

Even if it does not, it touches the hearts and souls of those of us who do. You have a mountain of courage, as do all of the other survivors that posted, and know we all share the feelings you do. It takes a lot to be able to talk about it, and I thank you for that.

It takes a lot of courage to open up and talk about it, especially knowing that people may make some of the comments we have seen here. It is, certainly, to be expected, but to interject yourself into it knowingly well, you certainly are a survivor!

Survivor is a powerful word, and what it does for you, and each and every person that has shared their personal stories, that is the most important. It means something different to each and every one of us, but the one thing it denotes is the strength to carry on and to not be defeated, especially when some people wish to make you feel that way.

In spite of... anything and everything... continue to be a survivor.

That's the most important of all, I think.

Originally posted by Charmeine
reply to post by Skywatcher2011

 

Try being on the receiving end of a rape. Then you can tell me the word you would use to describe it.

I am a male, so I couldn't tell you how it would be like getting raped. What guy wouldn't like to get raped by a woman???

If it were a male on male rape, then yes, I would feel VERY VIOLATED!

It all depends on the circumstances and the context in which you would use the powerful word rape to describe the event.

At the end of the day I would see you point on this. Being forced into an sexual action without your permission or freedom of will would make any victim feel sick to their stomach. Be it a woman or male, the images of being raped and the rapist with their evil smile and hate would forever be burned into the memory of the victim.

I could only imagine the guilt and depression one would feel about constantly reliving the day of the event from a human point of view. The thing is what was done was done. It all comes down to how one copes with the tragedy.

reply to post by Skywatcher2011


An old friend, and former love visited last week. He's been very mentally unstable and depressed. I was trying to show him some support by listening to him. I sat next to him on the couch. Next thing I knew, he was pinning me down and slapped me so hard on the cheek it left a mark. Luckily, I punched, kicked, slapped back and he finally stopped. He knew I was involved with someone else and still, it didn't seem to matter to him. He has not shown any signs of remorse since it happened and I know until he seeks help, he will try again.

If that was you in that scenario, what word would you use to describe it?

Attack is appropriate when describing a violent rape (or attempt). It's a violation of trust in every sense of the word.

Originally posted by Charmeine
reply to post by Skywatcher2011

 

An old friend, and former love visited last week. He's been very mentally unstable and depressed. I was trying to show him some support by listening to him. I sat next to him on the couch. Next thing I knew, he was pinning me down and slapped me so hard on the cheek it left a mark. Luckily, I punched, kicked, slapped back and he finally stopped. He knew I was involved with someone else and still, it didn't seem to matter to him. He has not shown any signs of remorse since it happened and I know until he seeks help, he will try again.

If that was you in that scenario, what word would you use to describe it?

Attack is appropriate when describing a violent rape (or attempt). It's a violation of trust in every sense of the word.

You can call it a SEXUAL ASSAULT with an IMPEDIMENT OF TRUST

reply to post by James1982


Hmmm, not dancing, I feel I have stated my position, and am loathed to repeat it for the Victim Deniers in this thread.

Women, ideally should be able to present themselves as they please with out the fear of being labelled as "inviting rape"

When those women who do cover themselves modestly also get raped, it is saying, that it is the rapist not the victim who has to address their behaviour

A rape will take place not always by a man in a bar who likes the look of you drunk or in a short skirt. In fact that is not the majority of instances.

Mostly it is by family members, spouses etc, people they know. The psychology of a victim being unable to remove them selves instantly from a violent situation has nothing to do with them being childish, it is a very deep and sad way for someone to exist. And takes a lot to reprogram how they feel about themselves and what they feel the deserve/don't deserve.


Is that clear enough?

reply to post by Libertygal


Thank you. It took me a very long time to open up to anyone. It took about ten years before I told anyone the whole story - at which very few people know. My parents only found out about the first rape when the detective in charge of the case left a message on my voicemail. I knew the case would never hold up in trial so I let it drop.

I think it's important for women to know that they have a right to say no at anytime. Yes some women do have a rape fantasy but it doesn't mean she is asking to be raped either.

Men/women who commit rapes are mentally ill. They get off on the excitement behind it. They love the power and struggle and it makes them feel Dominant, they get off on the control aspect of the rape.

And I will continue to say, most often than not, a rape will be committed by someone you know or trust.

I am a rape survivor. I also am a survivor of sexual abuse as a teen/young adult from my step-father. Yes, it IS a life sentence. It NEVER goes away. I'm always having to be cautious about what I watch on tv or movies or the evening news. I often have panic attacks in public, esp. in stores where there are people blocking aisles and I feel like I can't get out. I have PTSD, anxiety disorder, and have gone through years of being hospitalized for all of this. It is horrible and anyone who diminishes that in any way is just plain ignorant.
My attack happened in an open parking lot at 1:30 in the afternoon. I was shoved into a car, taken to a field and raped, then brought back to the same parking lot and pushed out of the car. The police took me to the hospital where they performed an exam. For weeks I crawled around on my stomach through my house horrified that he would find me and do it again.
My point being, I've been there, but I do have one comment about people who 'cry wolf' and say they were raped when they really weren't. These people need help. To go to that extreme, something has to be wrong. I'm not saying I think it is ok for ANYONE to do such, but sometimes it isn't as simple as having consentual sex and then saying it was rape.
I was in the hospital with a lady who had done this. After what I had experienced, I was SO angry with her! But as I got to know her circumstances, I could see that it actually was a very desperate cry for help. Thankfully she received that help. Others won't get it or simply don't want it. But not EVERY person who cries rape falsely needs to be so harshly punished as some of you seem to think. Sometimes they just need the professional (psych and/or medical) help to address their situation. Again, I'm not saying there is any justifiable reason for someone to do that. There isn't. But people do. It isn't ours to judge without knowing the whole story.
Thank you for starting this thread. There is SO much ignorance about rape and so much negative stygma attached to it. It's awesome that you chose to tell your story and share so that others can learn. Maybe someone who is in the middle of an abusive situation will take note and get help, get out of the situation. Maybe it will lead others to be more aware of their surroundings and your information will prevent yet another victim. Thank you! Thank you!

Originally posted by jude11
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

While the site you point to lists many 'Facts' Why did you leave this one out?

Myth: Women fantasize about being raped.

Fact: No woman fantasizes about being raped. Fantasies about aggressive sex may be controlled and turned off if they become threatening. In rape, the victim is unable to control the violence and stop it.

Fact:Many women have a 'rape' fantasy. Well documented.

Although I will always agree that rape is a violent and personal assault, the fact is that many women have a fantasy of being taken against their will.

Any man knows the pillow talk of a woman will often bring this fantasy to the surface,

To say that it is a myth makes me believe that the writer of the column has an agenda that is not unbiased and perhaps may be a personal piece RATHER THAN A WELL RESEARCHED AND UNBIASED APPROACH.

Fact: Many women have fantasies of rape, forced sex and domination.

Peace

edit on 21-8-2012 by jude11 because: (no reason given)

I cannot answer to why this was left out.

However.

I think the disctinction here is "rape fantasy" that is, fantasy play between two consenting adults. I have had a fantasy like this, and then felt horrible guilt for it, after my experience that I related.

As quoted above, the experience can be shut on or off at the will of the woman if it comes too close to reality. Fantasy play is one thing, real rape is totally and completely different. It was not until I was in a controlled situation I was able to confront this issue. The control was *mine*, not his.

A lot of people fantasize about things, knowing full well that fantasies are best left that. Fantasies. Most people do not cross the line from fantasy to reality. When they do is when we have problematic issues such as rape, child molestation, elderly rape, gang sex, group sex, open marriages, and other things.

However, there are people on this planet that think because you fantasize about something, you wish it to be a reality, which is just not the case. For most people, crossing the line from fantasy to reality is prohibitive, and a non-gamer.

I now know I can think and fantasize about anything I want and not feel guilty, because my fantasies do not affect other peoples' actions. Their personal decisions do, however.

reply to post by Charmeine

I think it's important for women to know that they have a right to say no at anytime.

That right there. The most empowering statement that any woman, man, or child should know.

You have the right to say no.

It is only the person who wishes to control you, dominate you, own you, and abuse you that is loathe to hear this.

Only the person who does not care about your or your feelings will be angered by this. That should be a warning.

This is what everyone should be taught. Not that they should avoid "certain circumstances", because we would then always all be wondering, "Is *this* that circumstance?"

Because, it can happen anywhere, any time. Usually by someone you know, but even by a stranger.

Someone earlier alluded to the fact that no doesn't always mean no.

The best advice in the world. If you hear "No.", don't question it.

Don't say "She said it facetiously" or "She said it coyly".

Walk away, and if you are questioned, say, "You said no, and I will respect that. If you did not mean it, do not say it. Sex is not a game."

It is everyones' responsibility to be adults when doing adult things. Men need to be educated as much as women and children. I think this thread screams this.

If you hear "No", let it go.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Ok, I've read enough of your posting to just feel the vomit in my stomache ... you are a survivor of a violent crime. But you are also, completely blindfolded to what is being said on these issues.

1. Rape is NOT sex. (Emphasize on NOT).

The majority of rape crimes reported, are of women who come in after a night with someone, and didn't like it afterwards. It's an afterthought, rather than an actual violent crime, as in your case. These cases, damage cases like yours ... and you should not, defend those who report them. Falsely accusing someone of rape, because they don't like them, or because they feel bad about it afterwards is not a good thing.

A case in question here, is Julian Assange, which is a very public case. It's not a "rape" case, he's accused of his condom having ruptured. Of having woken up his partner with sexual massage ... that's what partners do, all around the world ... both men, and women. In this case, we're talking about two young girls who are swedish, and work for JA, but wait until they're in Sweden to come with the charges. Because, basically, anywhere else ... they wouldn't be able to file them as charges.

Understand, that "rape" charges are a commonly used weapon, against politicians. They're also a common weapon amongs criminal entities, to blackmail people. They're also a common weapon with the police, who use them to get at people, they are "convinced" are bad, but can't get them on anything else.

So understand, that what is being discussed publicly are "these" issues ... not what you experienced.


No one, in the entire world, is defending the "violent" rape part. And you bringing it up, is just pathetic misunderstanding ... because it's not a sexual act. It's a crime of violence ... and that is what you should focus on, and understand. Who ever violated you, wasn't having sex with you ... he was molesting you. His intentions, were also to molest, not to have sex. And it's these intentions to harm someone, that is the "crime".

What you do not comprehend, is that the "rape" that is being objected to, are the kind of rape ... where the person who has the intention to harm, or molest, can be the very same person that is filing the charges.

reply to post by smyleegrl
You are very brave. I admire you. Your thread will help so many people, yourself included, because I believe the more you vocalize (or type, lol) your resolve in this matter, the stronger you will be. Shout it from the mountaintop, my friend!!!

reply to post by smyleegrl
Thank you so much for your brave post. I am also a survivor of rape and childhood sexual abuse and while it is something that has made me who I am today, it was and is the hardest thing in the world to deal with. Every time you think you've dealt with it head on something happens and you are thrown back in time. I am a survivor and from reading your post and a number of replies you and so many others are survivors in the truest sense of the word. Thank you for your post and reminding people what rape truly is and what it is not.

Originally posted by Vandettas
A close friend I know thought I would take her side after this happened : Let a man go down on her. LET HIM. Then, she claims she didn't want to have sex, so he raped her. Did she incite him? I want to hear your answer.

edit on 20-8-2012 by Vandettas because: (no reason given)

I had this very situation. The girl let me go down on her then said she wasnt ready to have sex. So we didn't have sex and I stayed the night. Why? Because no means no, pretty simple really!