The Truth About Rape

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posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by MikhailBakunin
 


My complaint with the mental health fields is that they think it is the driving force. Power and control are only the driving force in a very small subset of rapes. Most rapes are crimes of opportunity from someone the person knows. Those rapes are purely about sex. They've wanted it, fantasized about it, they can't get it, and eventually they find a way, and then in the aftermath they hope they don't get caught, they justify it, they apologize, they deny, or whatever they can do to stay out of trouble. Those rapes are the majority of rapes, and they are all about sex.


I understand what you're saying, and to a certain extent I agree.

I think for the rapist, sex may be a motivating factor, but the control issues are there, too.

For date rape, I definitely agree that its mostly about the sex and less about power. For violent rape, I think its all about control.




posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


It sickens me that we still need to define rape in the 21st century. That said, good job smyleegrl.


I don't think we need to define it, but I do think that people keep re-defining it over and over and adding new terminology, so that the whole issue is muddy and we lose focus and have to start over.

Forcible rape by a stranger is pretty easy to identify.

Forcible or violent rape by an acquaintance is pretty easy to identify.

Someone posted the link to Assange earlier. Consensual sex, multiple times over the course of 2 days, where a condom may have broken either accidentally or on purpose, is clearly NOT rape.

There is so much room for gray area somewhere between those two extremes, and a mere accusation is so damaging, that we constantly find ourselves re-visiting this area.

I have a friend that recently lost his job, got arrested, booked in to jail, and had to hire an attorney, only to have the girl recount her story and apologize a few weeks later. He was even offered his job back, but he didn't accept it. She passed out at his house and apparently was convinced she had been raped, even though there was no physical evidence or trauma, he denied it, and she didn't remember any of it, she apparently just assumed if she was unconscious at his house, then surely he raped her. Ego much? The cops actually took that accusation, and her intoxication far enough to make the arrest, which got him fired, and made him spend $1000 on an attorney, and then after she spoke with prosecutors and rape counselors, she decided it probably never happened, and she was just being paranoid. No false report charges that way. Just a simple mistake, an over-reaction, who cares if it almost ruined a life. ---OR--- What if he did? He isn't that good of a friend, and I wouldn't doubt that maybe he really did take advantage of the situation. Maybe he was just really careful. Maybe she really was raped, and she somehow "just knows" it? All the muddiness in the water, and all the legalities and over-reactions make it so hard to find the truth, maybe she is a real rape victim that won't get justice? Who knows?

So, I see why we keep coming back to this discussion. It isn't about defining it, it is about re-defining it over and over and over again for each unique situation.
edit on 20-8-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin
yeah... and without forced sexual intercourse, the world wouldn't be as thriving with variety as it is.

The info about the beetle was interesting, but not sure how it fits into a discussion about rape.


A male stalking and hunting down a female and violently thrusting his spiked shaft into her abdomen repeatedly until HE'S satisfied then leaves her without a care for her in the world has no part in a discussion of rape?
is this serious?

It's primitive actions and it's in our dna because it was a means of our species' survival. Hunting down a weak victim... forcing yourself on the subject for as long as you can... and leaving the subject for dead....

Now, of course, we cringe at seeing barbaric acts like... a mother eating her babies at birth... nature is disgusting... and as far as we try to act like we're not... we are still animals. And I've already said, I do not condone any illegal acts of any nature *no pun intended* but that doesn't mean it's not a huge part of our species existence.
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: had to drop a little more understanding on the subject, as I feel the OP to be bias
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: misspelling



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
I agree that the victim is the victim of a violent assault, and it has nothing to do with sex. However, for the attacker, the notion that it is only about control and power is absurd and it infuriates me to have to argue the point over and over.


Well, let's go over this one more time. If an attacker simply wanted sex he could masturbate , get a girlfriend, or hire a prostitute. Rape is about everything BUT sex. It's about power. It's about viewing the victim as an object that has no human rights or values. Simply because a predator uses a sexual appendage to commit rape, in no way does that qualify as sex.

I don't know how graphic we can get here, but, let's say a deranged lunatic walks into a store, unzips and rests his sexual organ on the counter. He says to the clerk, "Give me all the money in the register or I'm going to hurt you with this (pointing to his member)." Is this about sex or is it about using the man's member as a weapon?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by MikhailBakunin

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin
yeah... and without forced sexual intercourse, the world wouldn't be as thriving with variety as it is.

The info about the beetle was interesting, but not sure how it fits into a discussion about rape.


A male stalking and hunting down a female and violently thrusting is spiked shaft into her abdomen repeatedly until HE'S satisfied then leaves her without a care for her in the world has no part in a discussion of rape?
is this serious?

It's primitive actions and it's in our dna because it was a means of our species' survival. Hunting down a weak victim... forcing yourself on the subject for as long as you can... and leaving the subject for dead....

Now, of course, we cringe at seeing barbaric acts like... a mother eating her babies at birth... nature is disgusting... and as far as we try to act like we're not... we are still animals. And I've already said, I do not condone any illegal acts of any nature *no pun intended* but that doesn't mean it's not a huge part of our species existence.
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: had to drop a little more understanding on the subject, as I feel the OP to be bias


To have a better understanding on what exactly rape is and where it came from.... one should revert to the evolutionary psychology of the host/parasite interactions and relationships.

"S.L. Nuismer & Sarah P. Otto, 2005. Host-parasite interactions and the evolution of gene expression. Public Library of Science Biology 3(7):e203. ABSTRACT. Interactions between hosts and parasites provide an ongoing source of selection that promotes the evolution of a variety of features in the interacting species. Here, we use a genetically explicit mathematical model to explore how patterns of gene expression evolve at genetic loci responsible for host resistance and parasite infection. Our results reveal the striking yet intuitive conclusion that gene expression should evolve along very different trajectories in the two interacting species. Specifically, host resistance loci should frequently evolve to co-express alleles, whereas parasite infection loci should evolve to express only a single allele. This result arises because hosts that co-express resistance alleles are able to recognize and clear a greater diversity of parasite genotypes. By the same token, parasites that co-express antigen or elicitor alleles are more likely to be recognized and cleared by the host, and this favours the expression of only a single allele. Our model provides testable predictions that can help interpret accumulating data on expression levels for genes relevant to host-parasite interactions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I agree that the victim is the victim of a violent assault, and it has nothing to do with sex. However, for the attacker, the notion that it is only about control and power is absurd and it infuriates me to have to argue the point over and over.


Well, let's go over this one more time. If an attacker simply wanted sex he could masturbate , get a girlfriend, or hire a prostitute. Rape is about everything BUT sex. It's about power. It's about viewing the victim as an object that has no human rights or values. Simply because a predator uses a sexual appendage to commit rape, in no way does that qualify as sex.

I don't know how graphic we can get here, but, let's say a deranged lunatic walks into a store, unzips and rests his sexual organ on the counter. He says to the clerk, "Give me all the money in the register or I'm going to hurt you with this (pointing to his member)." Is this about sex or is it about using the man's member as a weapon?


calling it sex... what exactly do we mean... "calling it sex".... is this in short for... "calling it a sexual act"? or "calling it sexual intercourse"? it can mean many things... this word "sex" can be used in so many different ways... however we know one thing... if there is any penetration with a sexual organ or a substitute for a sexual organ it's definitely intercourse and a sexual act. And why does one feel to use this particular way to gain power and control? Well it gets his/her jimmies off, we all know that... so there's a pleasure variable that also must be assessed here. So somewhere in the assailant's psyche there is something fueling sexual pleasure... perhaps a ... killing two birds in one stone concept... or for the simple fact of shock and awe effect on the host... but we're speaking too vague to delve into the psychological basis as we are all different in our own human right.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by MikhailBakunin

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I agree that the victim is the victim of a violent assault, and it has nothing to do with sex. However, for the attacker, the notion that it is only about control and power is absurd and it infuriates me to have to argue the point over and over.


Well, let's go over this one more time. If an attacker simply wanted sex he could masturbate , get a girlfriend, or hire a prostitute. Rape is about everything BUT sex. It's about power. It's about viewing the victim as an object that has no human rights or values. Simply because a predator uses a sexual appendage to commit rape, in no way does that qualify as sex.

I don't know how graphic we can get here, but, let's say a deranged lunatic walks into a store, unzips and rests his sexual organ on the counter. He says to the clerk, "Give me all the money in the register or I'm going to hurt you with this (pointing to his member)." Is this about sex or is it about using the man's member as a weapon?


calling it sex... what exactly do we mean... "calling it sex".... is this in short for... "calling it a sexual act"? or "calling it sexual intercourse"? it can mean many things... this word "sex" can be used in so many different ways... however we know one thing... if there is any penetration with a sexual organ or a substitute for a sexual organ it's definitely intercourse and a sexual act. And why does one feel to use this particular way to gain power and control? Well it gets his/her jimmies off, we all know that... so there's a pleasure variable that also must be assessed here. So somewhere in the assailant's psyche there is something fueling sexual pleasure...


Let's take five psychopaths that are psychologically driven to commit crimes.

One psycho likes to burn people.
Another likes to bat his victims over the head to rob them.
Another just loves to shoot people with a gun.
Still another likes to watch people suffocate with a plastic bag over their head.
And, another likes to rape.

Each psycho uses different means for self-gratification, but it's the same mental glitch. It's not about burning people. It's not about batting people over the head. It's not about shooting people, or watching them suffocate. And it's not about sex.
They're all about power and control.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Prostitution is illegal, not everyone can get a girlfriend, and masturbation just doesn't satisfy a lot of people. I stay away from it, because it only exasperates the problem for me.

If a man went into a store, and laid his member across the counter and demanded money, he would indeed be charged with a sex crime. A good friend of mine was charged with indecent exposure for taking a whiz at a drive-in movie theatre. It was a sex crime, and for a couple of years the statute was written in such a way that he had to register as a sex offender...... for taking a whiz. Luckily they changed that statute a little later.

I have another friend that is.... ummm.... blessed. He has laid that member, from his barstool, up onto and across the bar at a seafood restaurant, and it is frightening! If he threatened to use that thing on me, I'd give him the money!!

If it wasn't about sex, they wouldn't have sex.



First let me point out that I have enjoyed your comments every time I come across them.
On this one, I thought we were talking about the psychological aspect on why a rapist rapes; not the legal definition?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

The topic of this thread is "The Truth About Rape." That topic can be discussed without taking tangential journeys into anecdotal discussion of penis size, public displays, and how many different code words someone can generate for discussion of the penis. Discuss the topic without traveling down the graphic highway, or don't participate in the thread at all.

Thank you,
burdman30ott6
Social Issues Forum Moderator



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by MikhailBakunin

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin
yeah... and without forced sexual intercourse, the world wouldn't be as thriving with variety as it is.

The info about the beetle was interesting, but not sure how it fits into a discussion about rape.


A male stalking and hunting down a female and violently thrusting his spiked shaft into her abdomen repeatedly until HE'S satisfied then leaves her without a care for her in the world has no part in a discussion of rape?
is this serious?

It's primitive actions and it's in our dna because it was a means of our species' survival. Hunting down a weak victim... forcing yourself on the subject for as long as you can... and leaving the subject for dead....

Now, of course, we cringe at seeing barbaric acts like... a mother eating her babies at birth... nature is disgusting... and as far as we try to act like we're not... we are still animals. And I've already said, I do not condone any illegal acts of any nature *no pun intended* but that doesn't mean it's not a huge part of our species existence.
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: had to drop a little more understanding on the subject, as I feel the OP to be bias
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: misspelling


So, how does a dead female help with reproduction? You state the female is left for dead...seems that might be a negative factor.

I guess my next question would be: are you a human, or a beetle? The beetle posses only the most basic of brains. It's basically a six legged brain stem, with the brain focused on the basics of life. Whereas humans have the cortex and frontal lobes.... We arent bound by instinct. We have the ability to reason.

And you bet I'm biased.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Smyleegrl!

Let me just say that I admire the courage you've shown in posting your story on a difficult issue. From experience I know that there are things one would rather just lock away than discuss - so kudos to you for using a negative experience to spread a needed and positive message. It shows a lot of character. Cheers!

~Heff



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin
yeah... and without forced sexual intercourse, the world wouldn't be as thriving with variety as it is.

The info about the beetle was interesting, but not sure how it fits into a discussion about rape.


A male stalking and hunting down a female and violently thrusting his spiked shaft into her abdomen repeatedly until HE'S satisfied then leaves her without a care for her in the world has no part in a discussion of rape?
is this serious?

It's primitive actions and it's in our dna because it was a means of our species' survival. Hunting down a weak victim... forcing yourself on the subject for as long as you can... and leaving the subject for dead....

Now, of course, we cringe at seeing barbaric acts like... a mother eating her babies at birth... nature is disgusting... and as far as we try to act like we're not... we are still animals. And I've already said, I do not condone any illegal acts of any nature *no pun intended* but that doesn't mean it's not a huge part of our species existence.
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: had to drop a little more understanding on the subject, as I feel the OP to be bias
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: misspelling


So, how does a dead female help with reproduction? You state the female is left for dead...seems that might be a negative factor.

I guess my next question would be: are you a human, or a beetle? The beetle posses only the most basic of brains. It's basically a six legged brain stem, with the brain focused on the basics of life. Whereas humans have the cortex and frontal lobes.... We arent bound by instinct. We have the ability to reason.

And you bet I'm biased.


Human or beetle? Is this some type of Kafka reference? o_O

"Franz Kafka's The Metamorphosis is a masterfully written short story about Gregor Samsa, a man who devotes his life to his family and work, for nothing in return. The underlying theme of The Metamorphosis is an existential view that says any given choice will govern the later course of a person's life, and that the person has ultimate will over making choices. In this case, Gregor?s lack of identity has caused him to be numb to everything around him. "

So we learn.... that in the acts of a beetle, in our case rape, does one learn the human aspects and their importance, using the existentialist concept.
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Excellent thread smyleegrl!!

It amazes me that we need this information but, as you have noticed, we get a lot of ignorance displayed on this subject.

Another myth that some people seem to believe is that it's not somehow a "real" rape if extreme violence wasn't used. Of course this is rubbish! Some victims simply freeze, out of fear and shock, once an assault begins, while other victims are drugged before the assault.

At the end of the day... Rape is Rape and No means No!!

Peace



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


You would think logically that a good portion of rapists are sexual sadists. They have a dominance fetish. I don't see why so many people think it's an either/or matter when it's quite obviously a combination of sex and dominance/control. I imagine a lot of men, if not most, have had fantasies about rape. Some are just more impulsive than others. There was that study done comparing the rhetoric of rapists and the talking points used in men's magazines...there is hardly a difference in their mindsets towards women.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Excellent thread smyleegrl!!

It amazes me that we need this information but, as you have noticed, we get a lot of ignorance displayed on this subject.

Another myth that some people seem to believe is that it's not somehow a "real" rape if extreme violence wasn't used. Of course this is rubbish! Some victims simply freeze, out of fear and shock, once an assault begins, while other victims are drugged before the assault.

At the end of the day... Rape is Rape and No means No!!

Peace


This happened to me when I was younger. I didn't initiate it, I didn't want it, but I froze up. He even blamed me immediately after for not vocalizing the word 'no'. I didn't say anything, but he could tell I didn't want any part of it, and he knew I was upset anyway. I felt so violated, yet I blamed myself too.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Charmed707
reply to post by jiggerj
 


You would think logically that a good portion of rapists are sexual sadists. They have a dominance fetish. I don't see why so many people think it's an either/or matter when it's quite obviously a combination of sex and dominance/control.


Sorry, I have to disagree. Sex is the medium that some psychopaths use to exert their dominance over others. If a psychopath gets it in his head to ram his car into someone else's car in order to make this victim feel fear and helplessness, do we call it an automobile fetish? Or is it all about power and control, with the car used merely as the weapon of choice?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


let me get this straight... Sandusky didn't have a fetish for little boys? he just needed a certain avenue to vent his anger for his football team's latest loss? And he just so happened to feel like a sailor in a shower with little boy?

you might be able to sell a refrigerator to an eskimo... but today... I'm not your eskimo...

there's more to it then it's just some random tool of destruction... Sandusky had a fetish for those little boys... he liked'em young and fresh...

edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: game.point.match
edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: Added a little "sailor in a shower" metaphor for emphasis



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

If a psychopath gets it in his head to ram his car into someone else's car in order to make this victim feel fear and helplessness, do we call it an automobile fetish?


No, it wouldn't be called a fetish because it's not sexual in nature. That sounds like sometheing a sadist would do. People can be sadists in general or purely sexual sadists. Sexual sadists act out their desires in the act of rape. That scenario doesn't apply to all cases of rape.

Rape without a doubt involves a component of sex drive. A woman's chances of being raped are highest when she's in her sexual prime and steadily decreases as she gets older.





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