The Truth About Rape

reply to post by smyleegrl

I don't know how to handle the situation of false allegations, or determing if someone has made a false allegation. Like you mention, many people don't report rape because they don't feel they will be believed. I never told anyone what happened, although for different reasons.

The way to handle the false allegations, is the same way to handle the lack of reporting, and the same way to handle the pregnancy rate, and the same way to handle some of the issues that drive rape in the first place.

We HAVE to get more open about sex, and stop over-reacting to the slightest mention of it, and stop burying the discussions, and stop demonizing the victims, and stop pretending there is not a problem, and stop marketing everything from cheeseburgers to toothbrushes with sex as an undertone, and stop marketing 12 year old girls and cartoons in sexual situations, and stop equating all nudity with sex, and stop pretending that it is easy to be monogamous, and stop blaming sex for the downfall of values, and instead put the blame on the real things that are the downfalls like dishonesty, and repression, and unhealthy control mechanisms.

If the mere accusation of a rape didn't ruin a person's life, then the false accusations wouldn't be a big deal. If the mere accusation of being a rape victim didn't stigmatize someone then there wouldn't be a reluctance to report it.

People HAVE to get over this unhealthy denial of something that is so common in our society. SEX. Sex, sex, sex, everyone is having it, everyone is wanting it, so why do we pretend it is some evil entity out to get us? If we discuss it openly, then it ceases to be a problem.

I don't like spiders. Hate em. BUT, I prefer the spiders that I can see, over the ones that are lurking around in my shoes, or under my pillow! Get it out in the open and it's not scary anymore.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

I don't know if you have looked into the Assange sex crime allegations? But I would be interested to know whether you consider them to be rape? Here is a link to the translated allegations.www.nnn.se... I will understand if you don't want to go through it. just thought your perspective would be interesting.
edit on 20-8-2012 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



I only read the section titled "The Rape"...if I read it correctly, she said rape because she'd asked him to wear protection and woke up to him penetrating her without wearing a condom. At which point she did and said nothing.

If that is what happened, then I have a hard time calling it rape. She consented, and didn't protest. But I don't know, that's a slippery slope so maybe I'm completely wrong.


I wasn't there so I can't comment on THAT case, but I CAN comment on mine. I was taken from a parking lot to a field and raped, taken back to the parking lot and dumped out of the car. I had recenctly heard on some tv program to ask your rapist to use a condom. Somewhere in the survival part of me, I remembered that and asked him to do so. Without a word, he pulled a condom out of his back pocket and put it on....then raped me. i didn't resist. I knew I couldn't fight him alone. I knew no one would hear me no matter how loudly I might have screamed. So I didn't fight him...another thing I learned from that program, don't give them the satisfaction of the struggle. Quite often THAT is what turns them on and/or makes them more aggessive or violent. It probably saved my life.
Was it rape? MOST ASSUREDLY!! Just because he wore a condom and I didn't fight him doesn't mean he had my CONSENT! It isn't always about saying 'no', it can also be about NOT saying 'yes'.
To the person who thinks we who have been victims shouldn't tell our story, here's the deal: When you go through rape counseling, you learn to tell your story until it become just that, a story. You have to learn to put some of the emotion out of it to be able to learn the coping skills to get through it in a healthy way. THAT and to help others in whatever way possible is why I choose to tell my story. Unless you've been there and know what it's like, what the advantages are of telling your story or hearing someone else's, please don't comment.
When I was in the hospital the first time, I just wanted to talk with someone else who had been throught it. NOT someone who 'knew about it'. There is NO way to 'know' about it unless you've been there! Maybe me letting others know what I've been throught will help someone else get the help they need. I will NOT continue to be victimize or silenced because other people don't want to hear about it or think the topic is inappropriate. That just keeps the victims in the closet, not getting the help they need.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

All I am saying is reality is reality

It's difficult to argue this point, because I constantly tell my kids, "There are no such things as accidents!" Accidents are preventable, they are ALWAYS the result of poor planning, poor awareness, or pure incompetence or disregard for something. They are ALWAYS preventable. When an accident happens, someone is at fault.

So, are all crimes preventable? If we took every possible precaution, and we still fell victim to a crime, who is at fault? The criminal of course. What if we took 90% of the precautions, but we made a decision that it was safer to cross the street before the crosswalk and get to the front door quicker, but that decision results in becoming a victim. What if you decide to take the extra walk down to the crosswalk, wait for the light, but that decision results in becoming a victim? What if you decide you can't work that late, so you stay home, and that decision results in being a victim, because the criminal thought you would be at work. Is it your fault for not being at work that night?

I believe there are plenty of common sense precautions we can take, but once the crime occurs, there is only one guilty party, not two.

What if a woman dresses conservatively to go out to the club, doesn't drink too much, makes small talk, but doesn't flirt, and decides to go home early, while her friends stay out late getting hammered. All those conservative decisions make her seem like a bitch to some sicko guy, and he follows her out, follows her home, and rapes her out of vengeance. Does she deserve some accountability for not staying with her friends? Going home early? Dressing too conservatively and drawing negative attention to herself? If she dresses too slutty it's her fault, if she dresses too conservatively it's her fault. If she stays out to late it's her fault, if she goes home early it's her fault. If she talks too much, it's her fault, if she is too stand-offish it's her fault.

The full accountability of the crime rests with the criminal.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
So on to the myths concerning rape. This is a list compiled by the University of Minnesota Duluth, please visit this link to read more. Website

edit on 20-8-2012 by smyleegrl because: forgot those darn quotes...

I'm sorry for what happened to you and it's nice to see that you are able to move on.
All the items listed seem quite obvious to me.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Actually myth 8 is somewhat true I have a friend who just about went to prison because the girl he was with couldn't come to grips with telling her mother she had voluntary sex with him.... Instead she lied and said it was rape. Luckily for my poor friend one of the allegations she made was that he drugged her Orange juice with xanax to make her compliant. If that orange juice glass hadn't tested negative he'd probably be in prison right now as we speak. That and the 5000 dollar lawyer we chipped in to get him is all that saved him.

I can only imagine if he would have had a public pretender.... errr I mean defender what would have happened to this poor guy.

Because of this incident I tend to evaluate each rape accusation i hear of on it's merits and approach any such subject with caution. My basic point here though is no #8 isn't a myth it's real it happens and it's DEVASTATING on every level for those it happens to.

reply to post by Evil_Santa


Rape has life-long emotional and sometimes physical consequences affecting many other people besides those originally devastated by the act.

I've been a victim-by-proxy of rape by knowing women (and a few men) who've been through it. People who know the victims/survivors have to deal with the turmoil and pain that can come up on a daily basis.

The attitudes that can come to light regarding women's changing status in our historically patriarchical hegemony are sometimes startling and discouraging, but are to be expected in any era of social change, unfortunately.

But as an off-topic aside to "evil santa;" despite many decent remarks concerning the topic, I have to point out that all janitors aren't stupid. I know a few people who hold "menial" (i.e. low paying, offtimes "icky") jobs primarily because they don't really want or need much money and see themselves as doing something that needs to be done for society, for example.

I've also known plenty of people who hold stereotypically "intelligent" jobs, like doctor or lawyer, who are arguably quite stupid.

So, in discussions stereotypes might be usefull, but there are always exceptions.

I can't wait till the day when you will need a legal agreement between two parties to sexual consent. Or maybe a license to pro-create.

This may be one of the few regulations on personal freedoms I might actually support.

Kidding of course.

However, it does sort of raise a new question. I can imagine going down to the DMV with partner in hand and signing a legal document stating I agree and consent my loins to said partner and all possible physically, mental, and medical effects of this union may have is mine and said partners responsibility.

Honestly though, rape is a form of power and nothing more. I do agree however that women in modern society are viewed as sexual possessions instead of partners needing to be honored by their spouse. Men no longer compete for a womans sexual organs in days past because women are encouraged to be sexually free and men and encouraged to have sex with everything that walks. Competition for a womans heart in order to receive the honor of laying in bed with her is no longer needed.

In my opinion, checks and balances are sort of wacked. It hurts the possibility of true punishment of rapist and true sympathy of claimed victims, which is sad.

reply to post by jiggerj


When discussing pedophiles it's different because as consenting adults chose partners based on their sexual preference such as heterosexual or homosexual, the pedophile's sexual preference is a group that in no way can possibly be defined as consensual, thereby making all of their sexual encounters rape.

It's a completely different conversation IMO.

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
reply to post by Vandettas

 

If she consented to oral sex, then she consented to oral sex.

If she said no to him sticking his man-wand into her woman-cave, and he still did it anyways, then he raped her.

How's that hard to figure out?

What your proposing is that it's ok to force another person into coitus based on said person willingly engaging in other actions. If you really believe that, then let's go out for drinks and i'll slam one down your brown hole later, because you willingly went out with me for a drink.

edit on 20-8-2012 by Evil_Santa because: (no reason given)

You still didn't answer the question.

reply to post by tadlem43


I'm sorry again for what happened to you, and if you're comfortable, I have a couple of questions.

Did you call the police immediately, and where they helpful? Was he caught? Did you have to testify?

It seems like a defense attorney would use the facts that you asked him to wear a condom, and he complied, and you didn't resist, and he returned you to where he picked you up from instead of just leaving you, as evidence for the defense, and on top of that, a trial is often many months or years after the offense, so it seems if you followed the counseling advice, and told your story like a story, it would seem less credible to a jury.

I know a lot of girls are afraid to report these crimes, because they do exactly as you have suggested, and it is great advice, but then it is used against them. Did that happen to you? What would your advice be to a victim? Report/Don't Report? Expect support, or expect to be attacked?

reply to post by smyleegrl
Speaking as a man I feel I must inform you that we are already aware of these "enlightning rape facts" and have been since 1987,and may I add some of the "rape myths" are occasionaly sadly truth.
P..S..is 50 shades of grey mainly about female domination ?

Originally posted by councilglasses
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Speaking as a man I feel I must inform you that we are already aware of these "enlightning rape facts" and have been since 1987,and may I add some of the "rape myths" are occasionaly sadly truth.
P..S..is 50 shades of grey mainly about female domination ?

Never read it.

Where to start... My stories first and then my point.

I have been sexually assaulted but not raped via penetration down below. My first encounter was when I was 5. I had no knowledge of sexuallity. My teenage male babysitter pushed me into doing things that I knew were somehow wrong. I had a flood of confusing emotions and wanted to stop but yet it felt good too. I was so relieved when a neighbor came to chech on us and he finally stopped. As a child I said no but he kept pushing. For a long time I thought it was all my fault. As a child my duty was to be good and do what the adults tell you to do.

Latter in my teen years I was forced by two different boys at different times to give oral sex. I did say no many times. Both these boys threatened to abandon me far from home as well as getting angry with me. Out of fear I complied and they were both very forcefull durring the act. Again I felt it was my fault.

The last situation was also in my teen years. I was at an amusement park with my boyfriend and his best friend. We were having a lot of fun running around like little kids. I was not doing anything more than holding hands occasionaly with my bf. At one point we went into a toddler play area and were in the crawling tunnels. The two of them on either side of my blocked me in. They tried to turn me over and part my legs. It seemed like I faught them off for a good 15 - 20 min. I screamed at them to stop and faught back till I was able to get by one of them and get out. I was terrified but had no clue how to handle the situation. They laughed it off. I called my mother to come get me early but, I was still stuck at the park with them for a good hour after. They seemed to have no guilt over what they tried. That was the end of that boyfriend. Again, I felt it was my fault.

Here is my point, in this day and age sex is everywhere. In movies and tv a kiss so often leads right into sex. Somehow I got the message to either do what they want or suffer worse. These guys used the fear to control me for thier sexual wants. It was about sex for them and the control. It is both of these things, imo.
What happened to just making out or a little petting?

I think that I felt it was my fault because of the myth that so many believe of "it's her fault for this reason or that". It is so deeply engrained in our thinking. In truth I said no many times to these guys. I am still just left thinking...why, why, why does it always need to lead to getting off? So, there are my thoughts on the subject. One does not have to be penetrated or violently assalted to suffer afterwards. After 20 years with my husband I still have times where feelings and fears arrise from the past and effects or sexual relationship.

Do they teach these myths in sex ed?

Removed. Probably not ATS material....

I was raped. How it happened... I won my trailer park neighbor who was shacking up with her boyfriend to God. She went home after church and told him that she no longer wanted to shack up with him anymore. He got mad at me for ruining a good thing, and he broke into my trailer and hogtied me and raped me [I was rolling my hair when it happened]. He wore a ski mask. I was hogtied with rope and duct tape.
I GOT PREGNANT.
My son is 22 years old now and Is getting married in December [yea, Big Jon!]
I already had 2 kids. Now I have 4. I was married to a domestic violent fool when this happened. To bring home a rape baby in an abusive situation when you are flat broke....
.... Abortion was not an option for me. Killing a innocent person does not lessen the pain. I was going to put him up for adoption but I brought him home...
My ex-husband told people that I had a boyfriend, and that I made that up to cover up the affair [idiot][grrrr]
I never got over it. I am divorced and have not gotten remarried [single since 1993]
Most people have vices... I gained a lot of weight after this happened. I went from 220-360 in 12 months....Maybe I was trying to make myself unattractive, I don't know.....

Just a question. How d you guys feel about statutory rape like a 19 yo and a 16 yo, something about that level? And also what about people having sex consensually and then regretting it after? Is thatrape? Cause people have been to jail for both of those issues?

When a 16 year old and 19 yr are both consenting it isn't rape. By the time your 16 you have the cognitive ability to choose sex. Once those two reach 18 & 22 no one sees it as a problem. They are both still teens and only a few years apart. It is only our society that marks 18 as some magic age. Perhaps if the years between them were greater and one was barely into thier teen years that could make a difference. Each case of statitory rape is an individual situation.
As far as regreting it after, that is guilt. If you willingly partake then regret it, that is not the other persons fault.

reply to post by smyleegrl

Interesting in a way op, I have not much to comment but its good that females who have been through all that, actually speak up on things and give there take on it. Silence on things or expecting people to guess your feelings, believes, and what you know on what you experienced does not make for anything but more confusion.

There are plenty of myths all aloud the world that are taken for fact, and it does nobody no service to let them circulate by keeping the silence. Because eventually that to will come around, and really in this world it's not about who is right or wrong most times, its about who makes the biggest noise about there cause.

Originally posted by MikhailBakunin
reply to post by jiggerj

 

let me get this straight... Sandusky didn't have a fetish for little boys? he just needed a certain avenue to vent his anger for his football team's latest loss? And he just so happened to feel like a sailor in a shower with little boy?

you might be able to sell a refrigerator to an eskimo... but today... I'm not your eskimo...

there's more to it then it's just some random tool of destruction... Sandusky had a fetish for those little boys... he liked'em young and fresh...

edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: game.point.match

edit on 20-8-2012 by MikhailBakunin because: Added a little "sailor in a shower" metaphor for emphasis

He liked to dominate them and FEEL like a BIG Superior MAN.