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The Truth About Rape

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posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by antar
reply to post by Muckster
 


I agree and I am also going to share this with my Step Daughter who from the age of 4-7 was brutally raped by her stepfather, one of the worst cases in Kentucky/Tennessee history. She has become a beautiful and healthy young lady.


I am happy to hear that you have a strong survivor for a step daughter


This is something that the ignoramuses seem to be missing... They are assuming that most rape victims are the scantily clad girl walking down the street drunk at 2am. The fact is that most rape is committed by someone the victims knows, often related, and often in familiar surroundings.

I think that what some of these ignorant replies are displaying is nothing more than an attempt to justify the thoughts they have had, probably while out drinking... they knows it’s wrong, but rather than except responsibility for their thoughts and actions, they shift the blame.

By this logic a baker who puts tasty cakes in the bakery window is simply asking to be robbed


I just don’t get it!

Peace




posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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Anyone who actually believed any one of those myths to begin with is and always will be, a stupid piece of #.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
100% agree.

Again, I will bring this up. For it needs to be emphasized. Are yo referring to a case where a woman admits (without cohersion), that she was wrong. OR, are you referring, as most often is the case, where a judge determines that the rape hasn't taken place, as is most often the case, and then the victim is penalized horrendously on top of being raped and is massively raped in soul, by the courts.


I think anyone who reports a crime, who accusses someone of a violent act, and is intentionally lying, is despicable.

Women who have sex and change their minds later, who try to "get revenge" on a man, who deliberately set out to harm a man's reputation and to take away his freedom.....that is below contemptible.

However, the majority of rapes reported in the US are not lies. They are not false allegations.

Does it happen? Yes, and its wrong. But that's really another issue altogether.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by EndlessFire
reply to post by Libertygal
 


It is also her choice to think logically and with at least a bit of intelligence. Would you tell your daughter or wife that it was just fine to go out drinking by herself and walk down a street alone while drunk and wearing a mini skirt and heels? No, no one dresses to get raped, but you have to use some logic and reasoning when you live in a violent society, such as most of America.


That isn't even what was being discussed. Why would you even bring that into the discussion?

If, on the offhand chance, my daughter ended up drunk outside a bar at closing and could find no way home because her ride dumped her and she couldn't reach anyone by phone, I would still condemn the man that raped her. The situation is not her fault, nor would the rape be.

Making excuses, like this post does, is why we continue to have a violent society that disparages women.

No matter what scenario you or anyone else comes up with, violating a woman, man, or child is never right, ok, or permissible.

It wouldn't matter if she were naked laying spread eagle in the middle of the street, NO ONE has the right to violate her body against her will.

Is it wise? Certainly not, because vicous, malicous, self serving, self agrandizing, egotistical, maniacal humans are walking this planet.

The sooner people understand this basic principle, the sooner we can make the necessary changes in society. Until then, men, women, and children *will* have to be wary of what they do, where they go, with whom they go with, and where they end up.

That should be what people are concerning themselves with. Not what the victim was wearing.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Ya know, smyleegirl, you carry yourself with a poise and a strength I admire. You have obviously worked thru a great deal of this and you handle confrontation with dignity. You express yourself with clear words and comlete thoughts that, while emotionally charged, present a vulnerability that only displays your feelings of Truth.

Atta Girl!! Great Thread!



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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Uniquely qualified.... I have a friend that taught security to girls that work as exotic dancers. They are assaulted quite often as one would imagine. I also used to work with battered women in a shelter, dozens and dozens of them were assaulted.

There are two things that I would add here - 1. Run like your life depends on it. 2. Do not stir up a bees nest. Most of the women I worked with were assaulted by people with a history of violent towards them and yet would get up in there face, cuss them out or attempt to strike them. This makes a bad situation worse.

Reading this thread you should have a sense that all you can do is to be vigilant and prepared as much as possible. I dont recommend carrying a weapon unless you are prepared to use it. 85% of the cases my friend delt with where women pulled out guns they were taken away and used against them.

There is no singular oppinion - no singular experience to define all others. Statistics, oppinions and forum threads dont matter if you are attacked.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by Unity_99
100% agree.

Again, I will bring this up. For it needs to be emphasized. Are yo referring to a case where a woman admits (without cohersion), that she was wrong. OR, are you referring, as most often is the case, where a judge determines that the rape hasn't taken place, as is most often the case, and then the victim is penalized horrendously on top of being raped and is massively raped in soul, by the courts.


I think anyone who reports a crime, who accusses someone of a violent act, and is intentionally lying, is despicable.

Women who have sex and change their minds later, who try to "get revenge" on a man, who deliberately set out to harm a man's reputation and to take away his freedom.....that is below contemptible.

However, the majority of rapes reported in the US are not lies. They are not false allegations.

Does it happen? Yes, and its wrong. But that's really another issue altogether.


that Is not what I'm saying.

Again.

Do you think the ones who should be punished for "lying" are the ones who admit it, or are the ones who the judge has not believed. There is a vast difference between the two. Many rapists get off. Some of them go ahead and sue the victim and win, because its her word against his. I have read horrible cases in my life.

Again, is this self admitted and therefore proved beyond a shadow of a doubt she is lying or is it a miscarriage of justice where no one knows, her word against his?

If they could lock up rape victims who the judge doesnt believe is raped, NO WOMAN WOULD EVER PRESS CHARGES EXCEPT IN THE MOST SEVERE CIRCUMSTANCES OF EXTREME VIOLENCE. No date rate would ever be pressed. Only the kind where the guy rapes here and sets her on fire or puts her in the hospital for severe physical trauma.

No other woman wold ever press charges. Because many rapists walk free from court cases.

Do you not understand what I'm saying. No one approves of false cries of rape. But knowing when that is, 100% is not possible unless the person admits it or the evidence is overwhelming, not circumstantial mind you. People are on death row in the US for circumstantial.

The reason why criminal charges do not happen in rape cases traditionally, where the judge doesnt believe the alleged victim is because they know that if that happens, very few women who are geniune victims will ever come foward. Who would risk it if once you are disbelieved, which often happens, you are either imprisoned and or sued for millions of dollars.
edit on 21-8-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Such an incredible thread. Both tragic and triumphant. And I applaud everyone who has had the courage to speak out with their experiences. Your posts ooze with strength.

I have not been raped, but I have endured a large amount of unwanted attention since my teens. The way I look, it would seem, is attractive to men. This is highly uncomfortable for women who do not seek this kind of attention (I'm sure many of you can relate) and I don't appreciate this kind of attention. I'm not a 'man-hater' or 'anti-men' but I am a private woman who does not expect of accept crude like behaviour from men, who gives anyone the right to violate another person's space, environment or body?

Many years ago I took it upon myself to train in some form of martial art or self defense, anything that made me feel a little more comfortable in dealing with unwanted attention. And I advise that ALL women should have at least some knowledge in knowing how to defend themselves. It's not necessarily about muscle power or strength, you can outwit someone twice your size by knowing how to use their size as a disadvantage against them. Being prepared for such an attack and knowing how to respond could mean all the difference.

Once you begin training and building your confidence, you will find that you naturally exude an aura of strength, which in my experience, has been the perfect tool to literally stop any unwanted attention. For example, in my early twenties, I could walk past a group of men who would wolf whistle, stare and generally be rude. I would just keep my head down and avoid them, scurrying like a little mouse...

Some ten years later, I walk everywhere with my head held high, my walk is tall and strong, I do not totter around in high heels looking and feeling ungrounded or unsteady (nothing wrong with high heels if that's what you like to wear) and most importantly, I project my confidence through eye contact. If I happen to approach a group of men nowadays, I do not look down and scurry like a mouse. I look straight at them, standing my ground, letting them know I'm not someone who they can throw crude remarks at. In fact, it is those men who now look down, away from me, or quickly move out of the way to let me pass by.

Obviously, rape is still a worry that I have to, and always will, carry with me, as all women do. But I now feel far more confident in my ability to fight off, or distract an attacker, or even better, to put him off the idea in the first place by letting him know in subtle way that I will not be the easiest of targets.

So, to all the women reading this. Find a way to seek some sort of knowledge on self defense, either through reading, practice or even dvd's. ANYTHING will be better than knowing nothing.

*Please Note* This post does not reflect my experiences with all men. 80% of the time, the men I come into contact with are respectful and considerate.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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This is a good link:

www.ualberta.ca...


Acquaintance sexual assault occurs when a person is assaulted by a person she or he knows. Most sexual assaults involve people who know each other.

In Canada, the law does not distinguish between acquaintance sexual assault and assault by a stranger. Both can carry a sentence of up to 10 years in prison; assaults involving weapons, threats, wounding, or endangerment of life carry longer sentences, up to life imprisonment...


Rationalizing Sexual Assault

Some people believe it is OK to force a person to have sex:

if the person hitchhikes
if the person is thought to be "a tease" or "loose"
if a woman goes braless
if the person pets
if the person gets drunk
if the person goes to the aggressor's home
if the person "leads them on"
if the person dresses in a way that is considered sexy or provocative
if the person "turns them on"
if a woman asks a man out
if they spend money on the person

In fact, forcing a person to have sex under any of these conditions is sexual assault. A person who forces another person under any of these conditions may not believe he has committed sexual assault, and he may be surprised to be charged, convicted and sentenced to a jail term for his actions....


And 1/4 is sexually assaulted, but this does not mean mean what I call raped. I think its higher, all of my friends have been sexually assualted, ie whereby someone was attempting something. I don't know a woman who hasn't had some attempt to force unwanted touch or worse happen. I think less than 1/4 are actually raped.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Maybe I've been influence by watching the Vengeance trilogy but if somebody raped me I think exterminating that person would become my new life goal. I totally get not reporting crimes, I've reported serious crimes and saw how little interest the police showed. Their help could be useful in terms of tracking down a perp through the use of dna typing, but it's unlikely any rapist's penalty will fit the crime if administered by our "justice" system. Just remember, the police don't keep you safe, you do.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Well your experience may wary. Everybody reacts different to the same experience. Some people go to war and end up traumathized, others think its fun. Same for rape, even if you are just annoyed by his actions, or even enjoy it, technically its still rape, even if in the latter example there is no accuser probably.


Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

I don't know if you have looked into the Assange sex crime allegations? But I would be interested to know whether you consider them to be rape? Here is a link to the translated allegations.www.nnn.se... I will understand if you don't want to go through it. just thought your perspective would be interesting.
edit on 20-8-2012 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)


I only read the section titled "The Rape"...if I read it correctly, she said rape because she'd asked him to wear protection and woke up to him penetrating her without wearing a condom. At which point she did and said nothing.

If that is what happened, then I have a hard time calling it rape. She consented, and didn't protest. But I don't know, that's a slippery slope so maybe I'm completely wrong.


If you want to talk about the assange case, thats its own can of worms. He isnt so firghtened about the allegations, allegedly he is concerned Sweden will extradict him to the us.

Also in Sweden the rapist has to prove he did not commit rape. In my opinion that is no way you can get due process, so everybody who is charged with rape in Sweden should be eligible for Asylum, until they change that law and put the proof of burden on the accuser, the way they do with every other crime.
edit on 21-8-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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I for one don't understand how anyone can even bring up Assange's case, which is a highly publicized type of hard ball, to try and stop information getting out, or leaks. It has nothing to do with real rape cases. Why in this thread is that politically charged case being brought up.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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I'm so sorry that some people misunderstand rape
But just a quick note, I really really deeply feel that rape victims should not go online and say "I was raped' and this is my story.
If you were to ask me why I wouldn't know how to explain it
But something deep inside tells me this is so wrong.

So rapists are the ones at fault, not the victim..agreed
But just like beating someone up and stealing their wallet in a dark alley means it's the thief that is wrong and not the victim it still doesn't mean it's smart for a potential victim to walk in a dark alley flashing an expensive watch 2am in Brownsville.
Some accountability is required on both ends, the thief must go to jail and he is the criminal and the victim was an idiot, and it was his fault that was an idiot too.

So how come nobody says "don't blame the victim, he should be allowed to walk in a dark alley with a flashing Gucci diamond encrusted watch drunk in brownsville, NY"?

How come nobody says that?
Because it's stupid, they know the guy is stupid
So yes he should have the right to do it, but he needs his head checked if he goes ahead and does it

Just my two cents



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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The polics of rapes, is, sometimes, the way one human group to stay conquared other human group...
That is not always on racial basis, that can be on national or class basis, too.
To frighten others, and similar. OR TO COMPLETELY DESTROY SOME TARGETED GROUPS.
Usualy in connection with some secret organisations...
edit on 21-8-2012 by dragnik because: adding



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Agree, in many cases, rape occurs because of the given situation, alone, dark, secluded area, drunk, attractive etc...including stupidity... even as a male.. i tend to be cautious around newly introduced people, i would not be alone with them, not be cause of rape, but other things... a sort of uneasy feeling you get when you are among people you don't know in a secluded place.

Even when we go to clubs with friends(females included) we always have a designated driver so our friends(who probably drunk) don't go off with strangers.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



Some accountability is required on both ends, the thief must go to jail and he is the criminal and the victim was an idiot, and it was his fault that was an idiot too.

So how come nobody says "don't blame the victim, he should be allowed to walk in a dark alley with a flashing Gucci diamond encrusted watch drunk in brownsville, NY"?



I disagree that some accountability is required on both ends. We should all feel safe everywhere we go, and it is a shame we are not.

Also, there are a lot of misconceptions about crime. Statistically, the most dangerous place in the world for a woman to be......... is at home with the one she loves. So, should we advise all women to avoid their homes and the ones they love? More murders, more rapes, more beatings occur at home, by a loved one. Unfortunately, the statistics are even more startling when the woman is pregnant!! A pregnant woman would be safer on the streets of Brownsville at 2 a.m., than home in her own bed.

I was with a group of guys that got jumped on the way into a strip club in New Orleans. One of the guys had just won a Rolex, and he was bragging and flashing it about, and some guys jumped on him and took it. To me, it was a little comical. Did he deserve any of the accountability? I don't think so. He was stupid, naive, excited, and he learned a valuable lesson, but it wasn't his fault that he was a victim. People are not supposed to victimize one another or take advantage of someone's naivety or trust. Later that night, I was pretty stupid myself. I stayed out later than the rest, and I found myself walking back to the hotel alone at 2 a.m., and I was approached by a couple of guys in a ghetto whip car, and I thought I was going to get robbed. Somehow my size, boldness, and directness bluffed me right on through, and I made it back to the hotel safely. If I had been smaller, or more afraid, I would probably have been beaten and robbed, or worse.

Of course, we train our loved ones to take precautions and not be naive, but really the only one's to blame are the predators. I don't believe being a victim necessarily means you deserve some portion of the accountability. If you die in a plane crash, do you deserve some of the accountability for getting on the plane? I don't think so.

ETA:
What if you live in a poor part of Brownsville, and you work two jobs, and you use public transportation. Is it still you're fault for getting off work at a Diner at 2 a.m., walking from a bus stop, and trying to get home and get to bed, to get your kids up for school in the morning? Is it irresponsible to try and be that provider?
edit on 21-8-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
that Is not what I'm saying.

Again.

Do you think the ones who should be punished for "lying" are the ones who admit it, or are the ones who the judge has not believed. There is a vast difference between the two. Many rapists get off. Some of them go ahead and sue the victim and win, because its her word against his. I have read horrible cases in my life.

Again, is this self admitted and therefore proved beyond a shadow of a doubt she is lying or is it a miscarriage of justice where no one knows, her word against his?

If they could lock up rape victims who the judge doesnt believe is raped, NO WOMAN WOULD EVER PRESS CHARGES EXCEPT IN THE MOST SEVERE CIRCUMSTANCES OF EXTREME VIOLENCE. No date rate would ever be pressed. Only the kind where the guy rapes here and sets her on fire or puts her in the hospital for severe physical trauma.

No other woman wold ever press charges. Because many rapists walk free from court cases.

Do you not understand what I'm saying. No one approves of false cries of rape. But knowing when that is, 100% is not possible unless the person admits it or the evidence is overwhelming, not circumstantial mind you. People are on death row in the US for circumstantial.

The reason why criminal charges do not happen in rape cases traditionally, where the judge doesnt believe the alleged victim is because they know that if that happens, very few women who are geniune victims will ever come foward. Who would risk it if once you are disbelieved, which often happens, you are either imprisoned and or sued for millions of dollars.
edit on 21-8-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)


Okay, I understand what you're asking (I think).

I don't know how to handle the situation of false allegations, or determing if someone has made a false allegation. Like you mention, many people don't report rape because they don't feel they will be believed. I never told anyone what happened, although for different reasons.

How do you prove someone's lying? I guess it comes down to that....and I don't have the answer. When its he said/she said....who do you believe?

Again, I don't know. I'd like to say there should be evidence if an assault took place, but that's naive. Some rapists use condoms, or date rape drugs that leave no evidence of assault. So how do you prove those cases?

I wish I had a perfect answer, because I think the question you ask is an important one. But I'll be honest. I just don't know.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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The 2% Figure of false accusations is citing a very feminist number. False accusations are extremely hard to calculate. 41% is cited by a lot of male rights groups. The truth about rape is the entire act starting from the claim needs to be treated and handled more delicately. Women do have an unfair advantage. Men need to prove their innocence in almost every case instead of given the benefit of doubt before a real investigation even takes place. Our laws sway in favor of women in almost every instance.

This is why character of BOTH parties need to be taken into consideration.

I am not advocating the protection of rapist or even bias against women. I just believe that everyone needs to be proven guilty before their lives are ruined because we as a society automatically side with what we believe is the victim.

There is no doubt that rape is a terrible crime and can take many forms, can strike anyone, and can be done by anyone.

I believe many seniors, disabled, and mentally disturbed people in the care of people are subjected to abuse probably on the regular more so than anyone else. Children next. Then "able bodied" women.

My claim of course can never be proven because the people I mention are almost incapable of reporting it or even aware its happening.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
I disagree that some accountability is required on both ends. We should all feel safe everywhere we go, and it is a shame we are not.

That is an idealistic view and unrealistic
It's like acting as if you are out of tune with reality and there's zero crime in the world


Originally posted by getreadyalready
Also, there are a lot of misconceptions about crime. Statistically, the most dangerous place in the world for a woman to be......... is at home with the one she loves. So, should we advise all women to avoid their homes and the ones they love? More murders, more rapes, more beatings occur at home, by a loved one. Unfortunately, the statistics are even more startling when the woman is .

I don't know if this is true or not but do agree most rape victims know the rapists as the OP states
Unfortunately some accountability is still required at home, because many people stay at that home and do not call the authorities after repeated beatings or rapes

It's tough to be the one who speaks with his brain and not only his heart but it's the truth


Originally posted by getreadyalready
I was with a group of guys that got jumped on the way into a strip club in New Orleans. One of the guys had just won a Rolex, and he was bragging and flashing it about, and some guys jumped on him and took it. To me, it was a little comical. Did he deserve any of the accountability? I don't think so.

You don't think so?


Originally posted by getreadyalready
He was stupid, naive, excited, and he learned a valuable lesson,

Apparently you do think so
The mere fact that you say he was stupid and naive to me means that you do agree that he deserved some accountability.


Originally posted by getreadyalready
If you die in a plane crash, do you deserve some of the accountability for getting on the plane? I don't think so.

Who's the criminal in that example?
The plane???

Completely irrelevant analogy


Originally posted by getreadyalready
What if you live in a poor part of Brownsville, and you work two jobs, and you use public transportation. Is it still you're fault for getting off work at a Diner at 2 a.m., walking from a bus stop, and trying to get home and get to bed, to get your kids up for school in the morning? Is it irresponsible to try and be that provider?

Again irrelevant
Did he walk in a dark alley?
There's a few people taking the bus in Brownsville at 2am, he's not in an empty bus
A bus is not a dark alley where you can be cornered and beaten up in secrecy

So I disagree with the relevance of your analogies
But yes of course it's more the fault of the criminal all the time, he's the one that has to go to jail
All I am saying is reality is reality



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Agree, in many cases, rape occurs because of the given situation, alone, dark, secluded area, drunk, attractive etc...including stupidity... even as a male.. i tend to be cautious around newly introduced people, i would not be alone with them, not be cause of rape, but other things... a sort of uneasy feeling you get when you are among people you don't know in a secluded place.

Even when we go to clubs with friends(females included) we always have a designated driver so our friends(who probably drunk) don't go off with strangers.



I believe this Lifetime straight to TV movie scene is the LEAST likely situation to play out. As I said above. Rape probably happens more regularly to people whom cannot report it. Like seniors, bed ridden, mentally disturbed or disabled people, children, etc.



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