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My problem with Conspiracy Theories......NWO, Illuminati, chemtrails, etc..........

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posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by GunzCoty
reply to post by Poveglia
 


Ok what about the ones we can prove?
Like the CIA's MK ultra, or the gulf of tonkin false flag?
That's just 2 conspiracy theories that turned out to be conspiracy fact.

Look at all the conspiracies that are real and ask your self if you believe everything they tell you, or if you believe they may be lying to you.




If all of that was proven, undeniably as fact, then we wouldn't be discussing it on a conspiracy website.

We still would be talking about it, just like i used the gulf of tonkin false flag to point out evil people try to run the world without a care for human life. If 911 was "proven, undeniably as fact" then we would say that "blank thing or date was an inside job because nothing adds up just look at 911 we now know that was a inside job."


The GOT incident involved more than one actual occurence, these were actions at sea that actually happened. One of the actions was deliberately exaggerated and afterwards the whole affair was used as a pretext for escalation. It's a favorite quote of modern 'false flag' fanatics, but in fact it technically was not a false flag operation in the sense of having being an 'inside job' or an orchestration by covert ops. North Vietnamese torpedo boats and the US Navy were messing with each other and in one incident they(NVN) did attack the USS Maddox, in another incident they(NVN) allegedly attacked again. It has since been shown that the second attack was exaggerated and was an error on the part of the US sailors. There is no big conspiracy here, not a 'false flag attack' at all.

I will add that most of the people who usually cite the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident as a conspiracy theory don't know the actual story other than as told by the like of Alex Jones. These people can typically be described as a bunch of muppets.



edit on 21-8-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Poveglia
Honestly, the time some people spend delving over conspiracy theories would be MUCH better invested in solving the money problem. How do we get away from using it and acting dependent on it?

MONEY is the true bad guy here....

We keep pointing to banks, businesses, and cooperations like they are individuals but they are not. Of course business and the like ARE the bad guys. Because their SOUL PURPOSE is to make as much money as possible, period. The CEO's are not the villains, the villains are our own trains of thought.

If you form a home or internet small business, what is your soul purpose? To make enough cash to live on. Then your business booms, you must hire more people to help it run, and invest in more resources to please your growing clientele, which make you think of even more ways to increase your businesses revenue stream.

Now, 20 years later, you are a world-wide economic powerhouse of a company...Fortune 500 stuff. At this point you are so high on the food chain that you may inadvertently or intentionally hurt people and other businesses to get your way and even increase profits further. You may partner with unlikely allies, you may even outsource workers to maximize your profits. If your company crashes, it is so big that it may actually damage a nation's or world economy. You have led your company from the ground up, and the now board of directors and stock holders (even though you originally started the business by yourself) want to keep you leading the company to greatness and making them vast amounts of money, so they give you huge bonuses and perks to keep you from outsourcing to rivals. If something goes bad, your the fall guy. If some legislation threatens your profits, you must attempt to bride politicians or give them incentives to keep you looking good to the board and the stockholders. An aggressive (some people say it's ruthless) businessman, but overall a success to the company.

NOW, picture ONE THOUSAND COMPANIES, exactly like yours! And they will step on you in a heartbeat if you play nice.

See this scenario? If you agree with my above posting then it is NOT the Illuminati you hate, it is NOT the NWO you hate, it is NOT the CEOs you hate, and it is NOT the politicians you hate.................it is Capitalism itself....

anyone agree?


Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I feel this is one of most important points/scenarios that I have brought up.

I truly believe money, and our false assumption that we need it, is our downfall. And the reason people dont REALLY stand up to the monetary powers and situation is not because we are unable to, or dont know where to start, it is because of fear...fear of the unknown.

If we eliminate money, it's a victory, but then what? Until someone comes up with a viable solution to this problem we will continue down this destructive path.

So we fear the unknown, and fear that we have too much to lose, that's why people don't fight.

Our energy and intellects should be spent on developing a cure for the disease, not treating the symptoms.....

The disease is money. And returning to the gold standard will not solve anything, because this too, is putting value on a pointless item. Food, health, life, love, and a skill that helps mankind or at least your neighbor is more valuable.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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Heres your proof.

Then after researching the History of the Prussian Education system in Europe in the 1850s and WHO brought it to America in the 1900s--you realize that the conspiracy is obviously a corrupted Education System. One that churns out mindless consumers--yeah, i was one myself--- This is an important key to why things are so.

NONE of this is possible without our willing participation.

The conspiracy of the corruption of our Learning Institutions and the monopolies they have TODAY will prove without a shadow of a doubt that there are people that will stop at nothing for control of the population.

"Illuminati" is too cliché now. Better to look into its root definition. Are you aware of the meaning of the word? Its not us and them. Its dupes and adepts.
edit on 21-8-2012 by rainbowbear because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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Also to throw in there (and I think a lot of Soldiers will echo my opinion here), people sometimes ask me how I feel about our "illegal wars" or "going to war for profit", and I dont get angry or anything like that.

Big businesses, politicians, and lawmakers may start and end wars for their own profit, but it is not what keeps the Soldier fighting, and it is not why we are there.

We are there to protect you, the American citizen. If we go to war, no matter how we personally feel about it, we agree to go because the people have said they want us there. YOU the American citizen (not the politicians or government) told me and my brothers to go. So whether we believe the cause or not, I will go, because your voice is the reason we raised our right hand and signed on the dotted line.

Now, if ten years later, a vast majority of American people want us gone from there, then YOU must bring this up to the government, because I cannot. In the spirit of good order and discipline, I cannot protest my orders or those giving them. It is not because I am a mindless drone, or because I am a brainwashed system of a war machine culture, it is because I waived my personal rights and beliefs to uphold what you the American citizen feels is important.

And if you say "Not all of us wanted you guys to go to war", then I must ask "What did you do to prevent us from going?"

Most people did nothing to stop us from going, maybe a protest here and there and a phone call to their Congressman, but that is all.

If you remember after 9-11, most everyone in the US was pro-war. If it was brainwashing or tricks, then it is still the citizens blame. Not the politicians, not the President, not the businessmen, not the Generals. They had to get your consent to send us...............



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by rainbowbear
Heres your proof.

Then after researching the History of the Prussian Education system in Europe in the 1850s and WHO brought it to America in the 1900s--you realize that the conspiracy is obviously a corrupted Education System. One that churns out mindless consumers--yeah, i was one myself--- This is an important key to why things are so.

NONE of this is possible without our willing participation.

The conspiracy of the corruption of our Learning Institutions and the monopolies they have TODAY will prove without a shadow of a doubt that there are people that will stop at nothing for control of the population.

"Illuminati" is too cliché now. Better to look into its root definition. Are you aware of the meaning of the word? Its not us and them. Its dupes and adepts.
edit on 21-8-2012 by rainbowbear because: (no reason given)


Oh I agree, the Education system is very flawed. But is that all the system's fault or partially due to the "newer" generations of parents and their lack of parenting, partnered with a pampered lazy youth base?

There are still brilliant minds that leave our education system on a daily basis, learning the same material the mindless masses learn in school. But you can always research and educate yourself. The priorities of the youth must change, and the education system needs serious re-vamping, but that does not make them innocent in their individual lack of drive..........



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 


um. Are you sure you are defending our freedom? I sure dont feel free. How does doing a tour in the ME protect me?



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 


Oh dude, it's never our fault, it's always somebody elses fault



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 


why dont you learn something about how (AND WHO) our education was currupted instead of telling me what you think, which has no bearing on reality.

sorry bro, i love you but --this is really important for you to understand before I can go any further.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by rainbowbear
reply to post by Poveglia
 


um. Are you sure you are defending our freedom? I sure dont feel free. How does doing a tour in the ME protect me?


Whether I feel like I am defending your freedom or not is irrelevant, the fact that the American people thought their freedom and safety were in jeopardy is all that matters.

If soldiers had a choice to go to war, most wouldnt or dont want to. But we waive those rights and are used to "speak for those who cannot speak" and "defend the innocent". The choice to go to war or not was never my choice...it was the American people's....



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by rainbowbear
reply to post by Poveglia
 


why dont you learn something about how (AND WHO) our education was currupted instead of telling me what you think, which has no bearing on reality.

sorry bro, i love you but --this is really important for you to understand before I can go any further.



I believe that I do know what you are talking about, and why it is so important. One of the key points: "Seeking to replace the controlling functions of the local aristocracy, the Prussian court attempted to instill social obedience in the citizens through indoctrination. Every individual had to become convinced, in the core of his being, that the King was just, his decisions always right, and the need for obedience paramount"

So yes, basically a modern system of royalty and serfs. Dukes and squires. Intelligent and "kept in the dark".

Very Middle Ages to an extent. But, my point is that they lacked the information flow that we currently have right now.

The way I talk, act, and my level of intelligence is based VERY minimally on my school years. A majority of what I know now is self taught. Also, private schools are readily available to those who wish to pay. Then there are always religious schools as well which are sometimes free to parishiners or church members. I understand these are very similar to the public school sector, but there are huge differences in their level of education.

The Prussian system may have been used diabolically in the past in Europe and quite possibly early America, but we have no excuse in the Age of technology.......



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by Poveglia

Ok, sorry not trying to argue, but that still leaves the motive behind the NWO. If it is simply "to rule the world", well arent they already doing that through the MSM, laws, police forces, pure brainwashing, etc?

It seems to me that many are convinced that they are already running everything, so what more do they want? If it is money, they already have that. If it political power, they already have that too in some peoples minds. If it is to be in control of every action you do throughout your mundane lives, well they basically are doing that as well, by owning the stuff you buy, who you work for, etc....

Yes, these group exist, but no one here has been to a meeting, so everything we "think" they are doing, is pure conjectures.

You also bring up all the chaos as pure coincidence, I believe that is the nature of the human experience. It appears to be all chaos, because no one can see the whole picture. Or it just really is pure chaos.

Also, how are such ruthless powerful men who crush anyone who gets in their way, what is the boundary or guidelines that keep them in check, and keep them playing nice with each other? Or is it all just a large scale chess game for their entertainment?


It really is a matter of good and evil. Those words work best. Why does a rapist rape? Why does a swindler swindle? "Just one last rape and then it's done?". These people have an insatiable hunger to dominate. What do you think happens in war? How does one make the decision to actually KILL another human? What about the command to KILL and the ability to accept collateral damage from behind enemy lines? Every single person who participates in War has their lives destroyed and the people commanding it KNOW THIS and still do it. Why? Because killing a bugs is without moral consequence.

There are Hitlers on this planet that are smarter and more powerful. You can't know them because they are so far outside your reality and scope of acknowledgement. Like Argentinian pop stars.. You don't know about them.

These people are born into power. Born into a reality so foreign to your own it's difficult to even acknowledge it's existence.

"what is the boundary or guidelines that keep them in check, and keep them playing nice with each other?"

They don't play nice with each other. The thing keeping them in check is goodness and resistance to their domination. They resist each other and they resist resistance. Your goodness and moral substance is their enemy.

This isn't star wars fantasy. It is real. There is evil in this world beyond anything you could ever care to imagine. And there is goodness in this world with power beyond anything we have likely experienced.

Take a look at a picture of a child killed from a drone bombing and ask how can it be real? WHO would do this? From the guy who pushed the button, to the commander who gave the command, to the society that unknowingly supports it. Try and REALLY stand up against it and see what happens. See who shuts you down. Who is their master?



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 

Congress has the power to send you off, its all fine and good as long as Congress isnt corrupt. Will you waffle about that too?

whats this "quite possibly" rubbish?

well, you havent learned this as fact then. the names, dates.

you arent sure of what you know. but, when you learn the true history of it--you are going to be mad. (ok,madder)

i know you have not because of your rhetoric. hey im not trying to pick on you but rather tough love because your only going half way about what you "know"

I want you to know. LEARN the names, and dates, and context of the dumbing down of our Country and the conspiracy is all around you.
edit on 21-8-2012 by rainbowbear because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 

yeah, and get this---

the Prussian Empire originally had a very powerful army. they also had great education. So good, that the soldiers eventually REFUSED to fight WARs without reason.

So guess what happened?

The Prussian Elite (they have names) began to dumb the education of their citizens asap.

Then it came to America.

EDIT: were clear that prussia turned into Eastern Germany, correct?
edit on 21-8-2012 by rainbowbear because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by Poveglia

Ok, sorry not trying to argue, but that still leaves the motive behind the NWO. If it is simply "to rule the world", well arent they already doing that through the MSM, laws, police forces, pure brainwashing, etc?

It seems to me that many are convinced that they are already running everything, so what more do they want? If it is money, they already have that. If it political power, they already have that too in some peoples minds. If it is to be in control of every action you do throughout your mundane lives, well they basically are doing that as well, by owning the stuff you buy, who you work for, etc....

Yes, these group exist, but no one here has been to a meeting, so everything we "think" they are doing, is pure conjectures.

You also bring up all the chaos as pure coincidence, I believe that is the nature of the human experience. It appears to be all chaos, because no one can see the whole picture. Or it just really is pure chaos.

Also, how are such ruthless powerful men who crush anyone who gets in their way, what is the boundary or guidelines that keep them in check, and keep them playing nice with each other? Or is it all just a large scale chess game for their entertainment?


It really is a matter of good and evil. Those words work best. Why does a rapist rape? Why does a swindler swindle? "Just one last rape and then it's done?". These people have an insatiable hunger to dominate. What do you think happens in war? How does one make the decision to actually KILL another human? What about the command to KILL and the ability to accept collateral damage from behind enemy lines? Every single person who participates in War has their lives destroyed and the people commanding it KNOW THIS and still do it. Why? Because killing a bugs is without moral consequence.

There are Hitlers on this planet that are smarter and more powerful. You can't know them because they are so far outside your reality and scope of acknowledgement. Like Argentinian pop stars.. You don't know about them.

These people are born into power. Born into a reality so foreign to your own it's difficult to even acknowledge it's existence.

"what is the boundary or guidelines that keep them in check, and keep them playing nice with each other?"

They don't play nice with each other. The thing keeping them in check is goodness and resistance to their domination. They resist each other and they resist resistance. Your goodness and moral substance is their enemy.

This isn't star wars fantasy. It is real. There is evil in this world beyond anything you could ever care to imagine. And there is goodness in this world with power beyond anything we have likely experienced.

Take a look at a picture of a child killed from a drone bombing and ask how can it be real? WHO would do this? From the guy who pushed the button, to the commander who gave the command, to the society that unknowingly supports it. Try and REALLY stand up against it and see what happens. See who shuts you down. Who is their master?


And once again, while a very passionate post, you provide no evidence.

It's like when my Soldiers come to me and say "They said this" or "They said that", I always ask..."Who is they, I'd love to meet them!"

It's ALWAYS like this on this site, sorry to say.

They are real, they are evil, they exist, they will attempt to control and kill us all, yet what is this based on? Have you sat in on an Illuminati meeting or Freemason meeting for that matter? "Secret societies" are sooo easy to blame because, unless your in the society, you dont know what they do, therefore, it must be evil or else why would it be secretive?

This is illogical on so many levels.

As for war and soldiers, it is terrible. I've cried, become numb at times, but you know what...I am a man and a human being.

Even if wars did not exist, chances are everyone in their lifetime would still see something horrible like a rape, dead child, etc.

That is life. Not to be insensitive or anything but there is enough "evil" in the world to be upset about, that we dont need a mythical group to point our fingers at.

How many non Soldiers REALLY feel sad or terrible when you read a title "3 dead in Afghanistan"? Do you even stop to look at their pictures? Ever send a letter of condolence to a family of a soldier? Ever pull a dead brother in arms out of a blown up vehicle when you were out drinking with him 3 months ago?

Chances are, most people will say no. But a child gets hit on accident by a drone bomber and that is something that sticks with people for the rest of their lives and they bring it up in conversations like this....

Both instances are tragedy. How many kids may be alive right now because that Soldier who died may have rescued or helped. Take a look at these pics if you have facebook (and can see them). Read the captions:
EDIT: Broken link sorry
edit on 21-8-2012 by Poveglia because: fixed a broke link



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by rainbowbear
reply to post by rwfresh
 

yeah, and get this---

the Prussian Empire originally had a very powerful army. they also had great education. So good, that the soldiers eventually REFUSED to fight WARs without reason.

So guess what happened?

The Prussian Elite (they have names) began to dumb the education of their citizens asap.

Then it came to America.

EDIT: were clear that prussia turned into Eastern Germany, correct?
edit on 21-8-2012 by rainbowbear because: (no reason given)


No offense taken....

Obviously, my education on this matter is limited. I never claimed to have a vast understanding of every topic, everyone's areas of interest, and everyone's subject matter expertise. If I had this, I certainly wouldnt be in the Army ;P

If you are very read up on this particular topic, and you feel it is vitally important and relevant to our current state of being, or your perception of our current state of being, then by all means formulate your knowledge into a thread and educate us all.

But if you want to continue to talk in code to me and expect me to eventually come to the same conclusions you have come to, I'm afraid you'll be dissapointed. I need it at least summarized for myself and with helpful links, etc..

I'm not being rude, I am truly interested, but I can't be expected to know everything without a nudge or two in the right direction. If you do start a thread, please by all means, link it here! Thanks man!



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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I tend to agree with you and also enjoy reading the posts on this site. There are a lot of people on this site that have some pretty over the top views. I think the key here is to use a filter based upon your own beliefs. My beliefs and views as a middle aged man are a lot different than they were when I was younger. I tend to be a lot more skeptical now than I used to be. Especially of all things Government. I also tend to be a lot more open minded to things that as a younger man I thought of as being impossibly crazy. I have never seen a ghost or a UFO or any other phenomenom that I could not explain with rational thought, but I know perfectly sane people who claim that they have. Not only do I respect their beliefs, but they have caused me to have a more open minded view about the posibility of such things. It is my opinion that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes in the world right now than most people know. Or would feel comfortable knowing. I also feel that there is there is a drastic "restructuring" coming and when it does it is going to redefine the world as we know it. With that said I think this site is a good forum for people to put together the pieces of truth not offered by the MSM. So to restate, I think the key here is to use your own filter. By the way I was also stationed in Germany. HHT Regimental Headquarters 11th Armored Cavalry, Fulda West Germany 1988-1990. When first stationed there we were told that we were nothing but a speed bump. A year later the wall fell. The point being sometimes things can change very quickly and without much notice.
edit on 21-8-2012 by ozarkdiver because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by ozarkdiver
I tend to agree with you and also enjoy reading the posts on this site. There are a lot of people on this site that have some pretty over the top views. I think the key here is to use a filter based upon your own beliefs. My beliefs and views as a middle aged man are a lot different than they were when I was younger. I tend to be a lot more skeptical now than I used to be. Especially of all things Government. I also tend to be a lot more open minded to things that as a younger man I thought of as being impossibly crazy. I have never seen a ghost or a UFO or any other phenomenom that I could not explain with rational thought, but I know perfectly sane people that claim that they have. Not only do I respect their beliefs, but they have caused me to have a more open minded about the posibility of such things. It is my opinion that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes in the world than most people know. Or would feel comfortable knowing. I also feel that there is there is a drastic "restructuring" coming and when it does it is going to redefine the world as we know it. With that said I think this site is a good forum for people to put together the pieces of truth not offered by the MSM. So to restate I think the key here is to use your own filter. By the way I was also stationed in Germany. HHT Regimental Headquarters 11th Armored Cavalry, Fulda West Germany 1988-1990. When was first stationed there we were told that we were nothing but a speed bump. A year later the wall fell. The point being sometimes thing can change very quickly and without much notice.


I salute you brother and thanks for your service...

I'm actually stationed in the Netherlands though, not Germany, though close. NATO unit for that matter (I know, the conspiracy theorists think NATO are the real, real bad guys lol)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 


You can find Bad in everything if you look hard enough.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 


You say there is no proof? You can tell a tree by it's fruit.

You make up fairy tales about why bad things happen on a massive scale. When the evidence tells us there are people in this world that have a bigger sphere of influence then ourselves. This is just common sense.

When you see organized evil (pointless and illogical/immoral wars happening) it is under the direction of people who's sphere of influence makes it possible.

Are you able to organize enough people in the world to create peace in the middle east? Someone is in command of the US army right? Do you have a say on what and who bombs who?

What about the financial markets. How much say do you have on what goes on. Do you have a say on whether or not Goldman Sachs gets 2 trillion in tax payer dollars?

You want names? Satan. The peon's you know about. Rothschild, Rockefeller, Goldman Sachs... What good is a name if you won't even acknowledge the influence on the state of the planet? If you acknowledge their influence you can start to understand who they are beyond their name.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 


S&F bro. Good read. I read every post in this topic because I have asked some of the very same questions you have. I too am a veteran. I served in the Army for 3 years, and spent some time in a combat zone (Iraq).

Some of the conspiracy theories I read about really do make me groan out loud. I'm not sure where I stand on the NWO. I'm sure that there are some very corrupt individuals with too much power and money trying to influence things to further their agendas, but I find it unlikely that they are all working together towards some overt diabolical plan. As you suggested, if they were working towards world domination then as far as the mass population is concerned this supposed NWO could already assert their dominance. So why haven't they? I mean if you ask me, its a lot easier to control people when they don't know they are captives as opposed to openly letting them know that they are enslaved.

Now I'm not saying that backroom policies and deals don't happen, I'm just saying it is highly unlikely that most of them are organized towards some ultimate endgame resulting in complete world domination. I like your post describing a situation where someone is a self-made millionaire and ends up walking on the backs of others to do it. Then go on to say that there are many more corporations doing this as well. It paints such a better picture of what is really going on. Complete unregulated chaos.
edit on 21-8-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)





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