My problem with Conspiracy Theories......NWO, Illuminati, chemtrails, etc..........

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posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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Ok, let me open by saying why I even bothered coming to ATS in the first place. For starters, I'm interested in the paranormal. Not so much as to do "scientific research" to "prove" hauntings or anything like that, but for the simple fact that whether you believe them or not, ghost stories have been entertaining man-kind since time immortal. And even if they are all false (which I am on the fence on due to my own personal experiences, which we can discuss privately or in another thread at another time), they serve as a fine example of the powers of the human imagination and exhibit some damn fine storytelling.

Also, I came to ATS because, like it or hate it, it is a damn fine alternative news source. I find out about news on this site, and then like a week later my wife will bring up some "breaking news story" that appeared on Facebook, and I'll have already read all about it from here. Plus, it's news written by ordinary people from all walks of life, from all over the world, which is what MSM is supposed to be in my opinion.

Anyways, I have a weird history on ATS. My original post (intro thread), I think was written when I was drunk and annoyed after reading a reptilian thread or something of that nature, so I openly apologize to the community for that thread. I'm truly sorry. It was utterly rude of me, and will not happen again, even though I can be crass at times, so I apologize in advance for that.

A bit about me, I am currently an active duty military guy (Army Paratrooper) stationed in Europe at the moment. Before that, I was stationed with the 1st Special Forces Group, 82nd Airborne Division, and 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team.

I've been an Infantryman, paper pusher, and everything in between. I have a combat tour in Iraq. Besides all of that, I am an ordinary guy with a semi ordinary life. I love European beer, love Marlboro cigarettes, 80's rock, Harley motorcycles, and the occasional video game.

Moving onward, I am not a sheeple, or a government plant, or a reptilian for that matter (in case it comes up). I'm basically a normal guy.

Now I browse this site very often and I don't post a lot. Mainly lurk in the shadows, read some stuff I'm interested in, and sometimes read some really crazy # on this site too, for entertainment. But, I have some problems with the conspiracies I see on this site that I want to address.

I REALLY love the huge posts with like 90 videos, and so many links that I get disinterested in the topic before I can read them all. (Perhaps the flouride in my water? j/k lol). So I really do appreciate ATS doing my homework for me on a lot of topics I would never research on my own. Kudos to you guys.

I do, however, have some questions for the community on things I just dont understand, or see any logic behind.

1.- If there is a NWO / Illuminati, where is the proof? I know some of you will say "Use the search button", or "research this yourself", but honestly, I have been to hundreds of sites and read hundreds of topics and seen hundred of videos on this, and I am not a believer that they exist. I will admit, there are bad big shots out there, and some of these guys may even influence world-wide political agendas, but I dont believe there is a "Super villain team-up", so to speak, of these guys. I believe most of these rich _____ tycoons, do have their own agenda, and may even come to agreements with each other or politicians, but it is mostly for their own goals, not some "hidden conglomerate of evil".

2.- If these guys do exist, what is the end goal? Say everything they want DOES occur, then what? Ok, so WW3 happens, they take away our rights, they successfully implemented "population control" through the wars etc, then what? Based on history, this conglomerate of evil would eventually break apart, and start competing with their other NWO rulers, which would then, in turn, cause us the "sheeple" to once again choose sides and fight for the one we thought is right. Then it would be no different then it is now, with countries / businesses competing for power, money etc....it would be the same scenario. Unless you believe in the "anti-Christ", and then the whole scenario might make sense, except, we have had an "anti-christ" in every time period in history, or so people thought. I do not buy into religion, so I dont believe this scenario at all. I believe religion itself is mostly evil, and is one of those "competing evils" who has their own agenda based on the religion.

3.- Who are the Illuminati members? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Illuminati the good guys back in the day? Also, no one can ever name who the "shadowy puppet masters" truly are. Sure we all hear the Bilderbergs, the Queen of England, the Rothchilds, etc...but I still couldn't put my finger on who the conspiracy theorists actually believe the "bad guys" are...

4.- Moving on to chemtrails (sorry, my ADD), where is the proof for this as well? I have been all over the world and seen these things basically everywhere I go. Where are these planes from? With how much chemicals that are dropped all over the world on a daily basis, where are the huge vats that contain the chemicals? Where are the whistle blowers? How is the stuff basically approved to be dropped on every continent on earth, yet no one has ever come forward (to my knowledge) to spill the beans on this? Why does EVERY government basically allow this? I know cloud seeding occurs, but with how many "chemtrails" I have seen all over the earth the budget, personnel and aircraft to run this must be a huge amount! If you believe in this... We have backyard astronomers that can spot Nibiru and sun spots, but no one can get a decent picture of one of these "unmarked government" chem trail planes.

5.- If we are all so brainwashed by MSM and TPTB are in so much control of everything, then why not just keep that control and allow things to go on as they are? The only answer I can see to this, is that there is no NWO and it is basically rogue, powerful individuals prying for more control and wrestling with other powerful individuals.

I have many more, but I will stop for now. I am not trying to condemn or talk bad about ATS, because I do like this site, and use it as a "you heard it here first" new resource. I just have legitimate questions to the "hard-core" conspiracy theorists. The Alex Jones types......

Anyways, hopefully this ends up being an extremely constructive post and or debate, and I really hope to keep an open mind and learn maybe a thing or two. Thanks again ATS! Mods, please move this if I posted in a wrong or bad area...I'm still kinda new to posting.

First topic BTW!!!!!!!!!




posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Okay, I'll answer,

Even you choose to Ignore the fact societies such as Skull and Bones, CFR, The Rhodes Society, The Trilateral Commission and Builderburgers run 70% of the world behind closed doors, then all this CHAOS we see round the Globe is PURE COINCIDENCE.

You choose.

Who are the members of the Illuminati? See above societies and a handful of others.

If the NWO is happening (as many leaders and powerful people have ALREADY confirmed) why haven't they been stopped?

Maybe because they keep implementing new laws everyday to stop us taking action? and have used the tactic of Subversion.

Please see:



For a COMPLETELY fair and objective outlook.

Ex KGB Officer tells us the subversion tactics:

edit on 20-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Sinny
Okay, I'll answer,

Even you choose to Ignore the fact societies such as Skull and Bones, CFR, The Rhodes Society, The Trilateral Commission and Builderburgers run 70% of the world behind closed doors, then all this CHAOS we see round the Globe is PURE COINCIDENCE.

You choose.

Who are the members of the Illuminati? See above societies and a handful of others.

If the NWO is happening (as many leaders and powerful people have ALREADY confirmed) why haven't they been stopped?

Maybe because they keep implementing new laws everyday to stop us taking action? and have used the tactic of Subversion.

Please see:



For a COMPLETELY fair and objective outlook.

Ex KGB Officer tells us the subversion tactics:

edit on 20-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)


Ok, sorry not trying to argue, but that still leaves the motive behind the NWO. If it is simply "to rule the world", well arent they already doing that through the MSM, laws, police forces, pure brainwashing, etc?

It seems to me that many are convinced that they are already running everything, so what more do they want? If it is money, they already have that. If it political power, they already have that too in some peoples minds. If it is to be in control of every action you do throughout your mundane lives, well they basically are doing that as well, by owning the stuff you buy, who you work for, etc....

Yes, these group exist, but no one here has been to a meeting, so everything we "think" they are doing, is pure conjectures.

You also bring up all the chaos as pure coincidence, I believe that is the nature of the human experience. It appears to be all chaos, because no one can see the whole picture. Or it just really is pure chaos.

Also, how are such ruthless powerful men who crush anyone who gets in their way, what is the boundary or guidelines that keep them in check, and keep them playing nice with each other? Or is it all just a large scale chess game for their entertainment?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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Who are the Illuminati members?


The Synagogue of Satan

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. This evil cabal is few in numbers but, like a deadly octopus, its tentacles reach out to grip and strangle untold multitudes of innocent victims. The initiates of every secret society and internationalist organization, from the Council on Foreign Relations and the Jesuits to the Bilderbergers and the Order of Skull & Bones, obey the dictates of this sinister group and tremble when standing before its leaders.

The cabalist group I refer to is the Synagogue of Satan, an ancient, yet modern, elite so politically powerful and so fabulously wealthy that even past history has been twisted, reshaped, and revised to meet its preferred version of humanity's gloomy, totalitarian future.

Religious in nature, the Synagogue of Satan is, at its essence, a grotesque, satanic cult. It's high council is composed of High Priests of Lucifer; these are men who literally worship death while practicing sexual magick and occult rituals of the blackest nature. LINK



...where is the proof? I am not a believer that they exist...

We have been lied to our entire lives about everything...


"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality." ~ Michael Ellner


Human beings tend to be unthinking conformists and can't imagine that society has been thoroughly corrupted. Monkey see; monkey do. And most of what monkey sees is degrading and often disgusting. Link




WHY SMART PEOPLE OFTEN CAN'T SEE THE TRUTH

"Psychologists use the term Cognitive Dissonance to explain the brain’s inability to consider opposing evidence. Governments intentionally try to create this disorder in the population. That’s how they can get away with creating events like 9/11. Cognitive Dissonance is a form of government sponsored mind control." Source

So WHY are people in denial?

Why are people ignoring what is in front of them?




posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Who are the Illuminati members?


The Synagogue of Satan

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. This evil cabal is few in numbers but, like a deadly octopus, its tentacles reach out to grip and strangle untold multitudes of innocent victims. The initiates of every secret society and internationalist organization, from the Council on Foreign Relations and the Jesuits to the Bilderbergers and the Order of Skull & Bones, obey the dictates of this sinister group and tremble when standing before its leaders.

The cabalist group I refer to is the Synagogue of Satan, an ancient, yet modern, elite so politically powerful and so fabulously wealthy that even past history has been twisted, reshaped, and revised to meet its preferred version of humanity's gloomy, totalitarian future.

Religious in nature, the Synagogue of Satan is, at its essence, a grotesque, satanic cult. It's high council is composed of High Priests of Lucifer; these are men who literally worship death while practicing sexual magick and occult rituals of the blackest nature. LINK



...where is the proof? I am not a believer that they exist...

We have been lied to our entire lives about everything...


"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religions destroy spirituality." ~ Michael Ellner


Human beings tend to be unthinking conformists and can't imagine that society has been thoroughly corrupted. Monkey see; monkey do. And most of what monkey sees is degrading and often disgusting. Link




WHY SMART PEOPLE OFTEN CAN'T SEE THE TRUTH

"Psychologists use the term Cognitive Dissonance to explain the brain’s inability to consider opposing evidence. Governments intentionally try to create this disorder in the population. That’s how they can get away with creating events like 9/11. Cognitive Dissonance is a form of government sponsored mind control." Source

So WHY are people in denial?

Why are people ignoring what is in front of them?



But once again, none of that is based on proof! Satan is such a wonderful scapegoat! It's so easier to blame a "secret Satanist society" than to face the hard reality that life and people can be cruel, unkind, and "evil".

Plus all those other scenarios you pointed out like healthcare, education etc...I can point to motives behind their "self-destructive" behaivour, and it isn't Satan!

Satan could exist, but just because there is evil in the world does not justify the existance of a Satan....



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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Well, its quite simple really..

Complete GLOBAL Domination, that's currently in the making, not completed, and most likely, depopulation as well, I mean most people say that's "far-out" but if go back and look at history, they've already tested means of doing that.

A lot if it is there for the public to see, and yet because the MSM ARE them, we need to rely on alternative sources.

As to how and WHY people from around the globe actually GET TOGETHER and discuss these issues, that's simple to, its a common GOAL.

And we "eaters" are the common enemy.. If you don't know whats special behind the word "eaters", go look it up.

Also, no one needs to argue, we're all on the quest for truth, seriously watch those videos.

How is all coincidence though? Take the latest Libor scandal for example, we caught all the worlds big banks robbing us blind? They actually had to get together and discuss it for it to happen.

Look at "The creature of Jekyll Island"

Time and time again history has shown us conspiracies right in front of our eyes. Its all an accident that the 1% control 99% of the worlds resources?

edit on 20-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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Also, I'm not in denial....I'm asking for proof, or what caused you all to believe like this (not all of you I know).

Also, some chick on youtube vlogging is not really proving anything to me....



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 




4.- Moving on to chemtrails (sorry, my ADD), where is the proof for this as well? I have been all over the world and seen these things basically everywhere I go. Where are these planes from? With how much chemicals that are dropped all over the world on a daily basis, where are the huge vats that contain the chemicals? Where are the whistle blowers? How is the stuff basically approved to be dropped on every continent on earth, yet no one has ever come forward (to my knowledge) to spill the beans on this? Why does EVERY government basically allow this? I know cloud seeding occurs, but with how many "chemtrails" I have seen all over the earth the budget, personnel and aircraft to run this must be a huge amount! If you believe in this... We have backyard astronomers that can spot Nibiru and sun spots, but no one can get a decent picture of one of these "unmarked government" chem trail planes.


Vats and cauldrons aren't needed for chemtrails. For over a decade the government (U.S.) has been subsidizing and protecting nanotechnology. All you need is a small canister. These ultra-fine particles are amazing. Their surface area is out of all proportion to their size and they can obscure a sky faster than anything and persist almost forever because the particles can be engineered to remain separated unlike natural soots and dusts and ash which tend to clump together in the atmosphere and fall out as rain, hail, evaporated water etc. By introducing a charge between various particles, they can be smartened up so that they align in pre-arranged ways.

Illuminati - I guess the jist of your OP - aren't flying these planes or manufacturing these canisters. All of that is done by Joe and Jane Citizen, operating under the delusion that they are 'saving the planet' through geoengineering or enabling sunscreen because of heightened sun-spot activity or preventing riot and mass insanity by occluding the sky or just plain out of greed. There's a lot of money to be made with insider trading through what's called weather modification etc.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Poveglia
Also, I'm not in denial....I'm asking for proof


Believing in LIES is denial of the TRUTH....

MANY still believe that JFK was killed by a lone gunman...

MANY still believe 911 was a Bin Laden OP...

This is denial of the TRUTH....



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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OP hope you like to read…

Behold a Pale Horse
Tragedy & Hope
Propaganda
Pawns in the Game
The Case Against the Fed
What Has Government Done With Our Money?
Forty Centuries of Price and Wage Controls
The Federal Reserve Conspiracy
Bloodlines of the Illuminati
Morals & Dogma

YouTube is nice but treat it as a tertiary source and nothing more. Also understanding Logical Fallacies helps a bit too. Have fun!



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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Too many questions to answer, it would take me all night! Far better to point you in this direction I believe.

Just google "builderberg guardian" if you want to know who the "illuminati" are. Personally I hate that phrase, it makes the mega rich sound almost above reproach. Personally I like to call them the thieving scum who steal money from peoples bank accounts and avoid tax.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 



How about JFK Vlogging? lol

Also, Chemtrails IMO have been proven beyond a doubt, they admit to spraying for geo-engineering purposes, also, how do you explain the nano-particles in Morgellons disease sufferers?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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WESTERN CULTURE IS BASED ON DENYING REALITY...


Modern Western culture is based on denying objective truth and erecting a false reality in its place.

The New World Order is dedicated to replacing Truth with a solipsism created by the same people who create money from nothing and charge interest.

"We have already contrived to possess of the minds of the goy communities...[they are] looking through the spectacles we are setting astride their noses." (Protocols of Zion, 12)

Modern society is based on a solipsism created by Illuminati (Cabalist) Jewish bankers and their Masonic minions.

The word "solipsism" means a self-created reality that has little or no connection with Truth.

Instead of being dedicated to Truth, humanity has been hijacked by the bankers. The "New World Order" is a solipsism that stymies and enslaves mankind while increasing the bankers' power and wealth.

We are being drawn into a solipsism that inverts good and evil; truth and lies. We are being inducted into a satanic cult.

Link



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Poveglia
 




4.- Moving on to chemtrails (sorry, my ADD), where is the proof for this as well? I have been all over the world and seen these things basically everywhere I go. Where are these planes from? With how much chemicals that are dropped all over the world on a daily basis, where are the huge vats that contain the chemicals? Where are the whistle blowers? How is the stuff basically approved to be dropped on every continent on earth, yet no one has ever come forward (to my knowledge) to spill the beans on this? Why does EVERY government basically allow this? I know cloud seeding occurs, but with how many "chemtrails" I have seen all over the earth the budget, personnel and aircraft to run this must be a huge amount! If you believe in this... We have backyard astronomers that can spot Nibiru and sun spots, but no one can get a decent picture of one of these "unmarked government" chem trail planes.


Vats and cauldrons aren't needed for chemtrails. For over a decade the government (U.S.) has been subsidizing and protecting nanotechnology. All you need is a small canister. These ultra-fine particles are amazing. Their surface area is out of all proportion to their size and they can obscure a sky faster than anything and persist almost forever because the particles can be engineered to remain separated unlike natural soots and dusts and ash which tend to clump together in the atmosphere and fall out as rain, hail, evaporated water etc. By introducing a charge between various particles, they can be smartened up so that they align in pre-arranged ways.

Illuminati - I guess the jist of your OP - aren't flying these planes or manufacturing these canisters. All of that is done by Joe and Jane Citizen, operating under the delusion that they are 'saving the planet' through geoengineering or enabling sunscreen because of heightened sun-spot activity or preventing riot and mass insanity by occluding the sky or just plain out of greed. There's a lot of money to be made with insider trading through what's called weather modification etc.


So every government basically in the world has aquired this nanotechnology, and is distributing it on their own people globally under the guise of weather modification? I understand this is a huge concern and issue for Americans, but how do you explain the exact same chemtrails I've seen over Holland, Japan, even Iraq....



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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I think we just have multiple greedy self centered powerful people who are trying to gain all the power they can. There is too much unrelated stuff going on to say it is organized. Greed and power are the drivers of this. I've looked at hundreds of different ideas for a single entity controlling this but can't find anything human behind the mess. People blame the banks when they borrow too much money and can't pay it back if something happens. The devil only instigates things, he doesn't make you do them. People don't think and that's the problem. If someone takes over the world it's because of our stupidity, not their allowing us to have everything we want and paying later.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Sinny
 


Isn't there evidence tying Morgellons disease to GM food?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Poveglia
 


Those countries all have the US in common



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by rickymouse
 


No idea, Ill look it up, all I know is, the nano-particles have been found all over the skin



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Poveglia
Also, I'm not in denial....I'm asking for proof


Believing in LIES is denial of the TRUTH....

MANY still believe that JFK was killed by a lone gunman...

MANY still believe 911 was a Bin Laden OP...

This is denial of the TRUTH....


If all of that was proven, undeniably as fact, then we wouldn't be discussing it on a conspiracy website.

I'm not believing in lies....I don't believe the official stories, but on the same note, I don't believe a bunch of you tube videos either!

Coming to conclusions before you really know what is going on is denying the truth as well.

How many 9-11 conspiracy books have been written and sold? How many documentaries and DVDs have been sold on the conspiracy as well? Same goes for the JFK story.

So the information that YOU believe is also coming from someone with an agenda as well. The agenda to either make money, or get you to distrust everything and anything. Then they sell you more based on that paranoia. Hell, if you believe 9-11 was an inside job, then you'll start to question any current event story. Then when a conspiracy book comes out, you'll buy that too.

I'm not believing the lies, I'm not ignoring the truth, but a conspiracy is deemed a conspiracy because all the facts are not know, and/or a lot of assumptions and circumstantial evidence is being used to formulate these theories. The second there IS undeniable proof of a conspiracy theory, then it ceases to be a "theory" and becomes a scandal....



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
I think we just have multiple greedy self centered powerful people who are trying to gain all the power they can. There is too much unrelated stuff going on to say it is organized. Greed and power are the drivers of this. I've looked at hundreds of different ideas for a single entity controlling this but can't find anything human behind the mess. People blame the banks when they borrow too much money and can't pay it back if something happens. The devil only instigates things, he doesn't make you do them. People don't think and that's the problem. If someone takes over the world it's because of our stupidity, not their allowing us to have everything we want and paying later.


Thats what they would like you to think... Ever heard of roundtable?



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