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Philosophy defends God

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posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by wittgenstein

BTW Humphreysjim is that Bobby Fischer, as your icon?


Yeah, see my sigline




posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


That is another issue that has been argued through out the years and there is evidence and Justified true belief of Absolute morals



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


books may be the worst form of evidence but what else do you suggest. Compared to the other things we have in our disposal they are better than most.

Secondly you are talking about the lack of evidence but I have noticed you have no definite evidence of what you are claiming.

and if books are so bad where do you get your info?



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Another thing people say is there are no absolute moral values there are morals that stay the same from culture to culture



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


There we go prime example of the weak following the blind.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


ask a hundred people if they think murder is wrong. They will probably say it is wrong

Relativity is the weakest theory in philosophy. It is self refuting



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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God is overrated.

If God is almighty he would be able to create a stone that no-one can lift.

If noone can lift the stone, God cannot lift the stone, therefore God isn't almighty.


Now I dont believe in any Gods, you could call me atheist or agnostic. Ive never murdered or raped anyone or even felt the desire to do so. What is it that makes you believe that if God did not exist we would all be raping massmurderers, i dont understand that part of the argument.
I see it a little like this. Morale is widely based on my background, culture and the golden rule. As you gain experience in life, your ethics are sometimes challenged, this can lead to changes in your morale and potentialy improve you into a better person. You'r version of morale is controled because of fear of God's punishment if you disbehave (correct me if im wrong).


edit on 21-8-2012 by Mimir because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by dpeacock
ask a hundred people if they think murder is wrong.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Ask 100 people comprised of disparate groups what constitutes "murder" and your answers will be all over the place.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by dpeacock
 


You are a very closed-minded individual. You will learn nothing, see nothing, unless you let go of your preconceptions.

In order to progress, you must first be willing to admit you might be wrong. And until you do so, you will not understand what we're trying to explain here.

Why try to learn if you only perceive what you want to perceive?



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by dpeacock
 


Premise 1 has numerous flaws. First off it presupposes that you need a God to get absolute moral values. This assumption, that one needs a God to produce absolute moral values OR that the existence of a God automatically implies the existence of absolute moral values, leaves the argument broken already.

What about other options, such as the idea that absolute moral values exist independently of a God, that they transcend any God that might exist.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by dpeacock
 


Insulting people on a website is a greater testament to your personal lack of intellect than to theirs.

Play nicely, now.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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“ask a hundred people if they think murder is wrong. They will probably say it is wrong
Relativity is the weakest theory in philosophy. It is self refuting”
dpeacock


You committed,
en.wikipedia.org...
Note, that I am not saying that what you believe is wrong or right (at least in this post). I am only saying that this particular argument of yours is invalid.

It would be helpful to keep in mind the other fallacies.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
If we constrain it to human consciousness we can pragmatically view morality as objective, but ultimately, it is relative in light of other consciousness whether alien or God. More to the point because of this scope of consciousness it's most realistic to view our morality as relative.

I think we're forced to consider it under the constraints of human consciousness. Having said that, I do find debate with you intellectually worthwhile and your ideas worthy of contemplation. How refreshing is that?

If I didn't feel the evidence lead me personally to theism, then I would certainly be a deist. The particular philosophical argument here is germane to a debate on relativism, however I believe that it has it's most power, and is the intent of the OP, for those inclined to scientific materialism and atheism.

Meaning you & I will probably only muddy the waters for that group if'n you get what I'm saying and I know you do. I look forward to seeing you around, brother.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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The GUT,
VERY GOOD!!! I can do the pseudo-intellectual walk also!!
PS: at the risk of being off topic, I present you this humphreysjim
www.chessgames.com...
Everyone remembers that! After all it was the game of the century!
However, this is more brilliant! www.youtube.com...
This next game is not so well known, but it rocks!!! A queen sac, etc and a king walk!!
www.youtube.com...



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by wittgenstein
The GUT,
VERY GOOD!!! I can do the pseudo-intellectual walk also!!

Already noted wiffgenstein!!


I'm sorry you feel left out, but I just haven't read anything from you on this topic that caught my attention. I even went back and reread your contributions and, alas, I still feel the same.


Probably, I'm not intelligent enough to perceive your brilliance. Really, that could be it. I don't deny it.

I note, by looking at your stats, that I'm not the only one who doesn't get you. It's lonely at the top, eh?


edit on 21-8-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm en.wikipedia.org... masquerading (www.madametussauds.com... ) as something profound! Leave the not so subtle Ad Hominems alone. And lets debate public.wsu.edu...
edit on 21-8-2012 by wittgenstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1


God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. Romans Ch. 1



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by ResearchEverything777
 



The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1


Christians have done just as much harm. And atheists have done just as much good as upstanding Christians.

This scapegoat bs needs to stop.



posted on Aug, 21 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried. -- G.K. Chesterton


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



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