Does the Catholic Church teach from the Bible?

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by Seede
1)A Roman Catholic Priest is a direct successor of the Apostles? Am I correct in that understanding?
2)If a priest commits sodomy can he forgive himself? 3) Or can another priest forgive him for sodomy? If priests can forgive the general populace of Catholics then surely they must have the authority to forgive each other. 4) Am I right on this or am I over reaching? 5) If they can forgive each other then they have a circle of being secure. Is this why, when exposed, they are simply shuffled around so to speak?

One other question which I have is this. 6) If Judas Iscariot was an Apostle among eleven other Apostles then why wasn't Judas forgiven for his betrayal to Christ? 7) Even committing suicide, could he not have been forgiven? 8) Or was he forgiven? 9) If I am not a Catholic and I sin, am I then not forgiven for that sin? 10) To enjoy heaven must I join the Catholic Church?

The reason I ask all of these questions is that when I read the bible I understand that all of these Apostles were Jews in the Jerusalem church. 11) When did they join the Roman gentile church? I understand the claim about Peter and all that but what about the other eleven? 12) Did each one of the other eleven have their own bunch of successors like Peter did?


I've added numbering to your original post for ease of answering.

1) No. The Bishops are successors. Priests would become successors upon consecration to the office of Bishop.

2) No. He must seek confession/absolution, regardless of the mortal sin he has committed, through another priest. All clerics, even the Pope, have a confessor (one to whom they confess regularly).

3) Yes. Being a priest only means they can perform the Sacraments (Confession, Communion, Weddings, Baptism, etc). Certain Sacraments are reserved for certain offices: The deacon, technically, is the one who distributes Holy Communion. All Priests are also ordained Deacons and distribute Holy Communion through their ordination into the Diaconate. Priests can do the Sacrament of Confirmation, via permission of the Bishop, and under his authority to do so, who is actually the general conferrer of that Sacrament. Anyone can Baptize if it's an emergency. For example, I, a laymen, come upon a car wreck and I believe someone is about to die-- I can baptize them being it's an emergency, as can anyone. The Priesthood itself has specific roles, of which, one is the Sacrament of Confession. The Pope, Bishops, and Priests all confess to Priests via the ability of that office. Bishops must be Priests first, and the Pope, being the Bishop of Rome, is also eternally a Priest and acts in this role, while remaining Pope, when conferring Sacraments in the role of the Priesthood.

4) You're right. See #3.

5) All confessions are secure. A priest cannot break the seal of Confession without permission from the confessed, be they lay, priest, Bishop, etc.. Joe Catholic could confess to being a murderer of a celebrity/politician/even the Pope(!) and the priest could NOT break that seal. However, the priest can withhold absolution if the confessed says they have no intention of not committing that sin again; and, the seal of confession does NOT extend to "future" sin, i.e. "I'm going to do X tomorrow". If it is something like murder, etc, in the future declaration, there is no seal on that and it must be revealed to prevent the crime being unable to be sealed in the confession due to lack of intent to not do it again.

The Vatican is livid at the shuffling around of priests, but it has nothing to do with the confessional. Only the confessed and the confessor would know, and even then there is no guarantee the confessor has any idea who the confessed is, depending on the style of confessional, etc. The Vatican web page's resources on the abuse of minors: www.vatican.va...

cont. next post due to space
edit on 13-9-2012 by Augustine62 because: to edit




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by Seede
1)A Roman Catholic Priest is a direct successor of the Apostles? Am I correct in that understanding?
2)If a priest commits sodomy can he forgive himself? 3) Or can another priest forgive him for sodomy? If priests can forgive the general populace of Catholics then surely they must have the authority to forgive each other. 4) Am I right on this or am I over reaching? 5) If they can forgive each other then they have a circle of being secure. Is this why, when exposed, they are simply shuffled around so to speak?

One other question which I have is this. 6) If Judas Iscariot was an Apostle among eleven other Apostles then why wasn't Judas forgiven for his betrayal to Christ? 7) Even committing suicide, could he not have been forgiven? 8) Or was he forgiven? 9) If I am not a Catholic and I sin, am I then not forgiven for that sin? 10) To enjoy heaven must I join the Catholic Church?

The reason I ask all of these questions is that when I read the bible I understand that all of these Apostles were Jews in the Jerusalem church. 11) When did they join the Roman gentile church? I understand the claim about Peter and all that but what about the other eleven? 12) Did each one of the other eleven have their own bunch of successors like Peter did?


....
6) Judas didn't ask to be forgiven. Had he asked, he would have been. St. Peter also betrayed Christ by denying he knew Him. St. Peter asked forgiveness. Judas just killed himself.

7) He could have been forgiven. He chose to engage in the mortal sin of despair and not trusting in God's forgiveness. God cannot forgive someone who does not ask for forgiveness.

8) We don't know for 100% sure, as that is between Judas and God. Nothing indicates he was forgiven on this side of time. We have no doctrinal reason to believe Judas was forgiven in eternity. Again, we have to ASK for forgiveness. Judas killed himself.

9) You can be forgiven that sin if you ask God to forgive that sin and truly mean it. If you truly desire forgiveness, you should also desire baptism, implicitly or explicitly, and desire to sin no more-- utilizing confession when you do.

10) All in Heaven will be Catholic, being members of the Church, by being part of the Mystical Body of Christ. That doesn't mean that only those who are visibly Catholic will be in Heaven. It's a nuance which must be carefully understood. See this blog entry on the intricacies and citations needed to understand that: jonbhorton.wordpress.com...

More importantly, watch this video from the Franciscans as he breaks it out very well:
www.youtube.com...

11) St. Peter and St. Paul preached in Rome and died in Rome. St. Peter, being Chief Apostle, and Bishop of Rome at the time of his death, established the officialness of the "Gentile" Church in Rome by officiating in his office of Bishop in Rome. Gentile Church, which is a misnomer- there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ- was non-existent. The Church is the Church. There is no Jewish Church or Gentile Church. The Church started in Jerusalem, but Catholic means Universal. It was never meant to stay local and colloquial. Christ said to go forth and preach and baptize all nations. St. Paul evangelized much of the Roman world, and the original Apostles spread out North, South, East, and West. St. John was up in Turkey, St. Thomas went to India, etc. It was all quite amazing, actually.

12) Yes, all Bishops are in some way descended (not by blood, but by succession of consecration) from the Apostles.
edit on 13-9-2012 by Augustine62 because: edit



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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The Catholic "Church" teaches absolutely CONTRARY to the word of God.

They teach that salvation comes only through the Roman Catholic Church.

Salvation ONLY comes by the blood of Jesus when a person is born again by the Spirit of God.

These satanic dogmas have cost many their eternal souls.

ALL false religions and cults are Illuminati mind control. PERIOD...




Pope John Paul II in Hell

"Then the Lord took me to a place where there was a very well-known man. Before now, I used to live as an ignorant young christian. I used to think that any person that died would go to Heaven; that those who celebrated mass would also go to heaven, but I was wrong. When Pope John Paul II died, my friends and relatives would tell me that he had gone to heaven. All the news on TV and other media would say: “Pope John Paul II has died, may his soul rest in peace. He is now rejoicing with the Lord and his angels in heaven” and I believed all of it.

But I was only fooling myself, because I saw him in Hell, being tormented by flames. I looked at his face and recognized him. The Lord said to me, “Look, daughter, that man that you see there, is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place being tormented because he did not repent.”

But I asked, “Lord, why is he here? He used to preach at church.” Jesus replied: “Daughter, no fornicator, no idolater, no one who is greedy and no liar will inherit My Kingdom.” (Ephesians 5:5). I replied, “Yes, I know that is true, but I would like to know why he is here, because he used to preach to multitudes of people!”

And Jesus responded, “Yes, daughter, he may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. He never said the truth. Although he knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He never told the truth; he would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists. Daughter, now he is here in this place.”

When I looked at this man, he had a large serpent with needles, wrapped around his neck, and he would try in vain to take it off. He pleaded with Jesus, Lord, help me!” The man would scream, “Help me, Lord; have mercy on me; take me out of this place; forgive me! I repent, Lord; I want to return to earth, I want to go back to earth to repent.” The Lord observed him and said to him, “You knew very well that this place was real… It’s too late; there is no other opportunity for you.”

The Lord said, “Look, daughter, I am going to show you the life of this man.” Jesus showed me a huge screen on which I could observe how this man offered mass many times to the multitudes. And how the people who were there were so idolatrous. Jesus said, “Look, daughter, there are many idolaters in this place. Idolatry will not save, daughter. I am the only One who saves, and outside of Me, no one saves. I love the sinner, but I hate sin, daughter. Go and tell humanity that I love them and that they need to come to Me.”

As the Lord was speaking, I began to see how this man received multitudes of coins and bills; money, all of which he would keep. He had so much money. I saw images of this man seated on a throne, but I was also able to see beyond that. While it’s true that these people do not get married, I can assure you, I’m not making this up; the Lord showed it to me, those people do sleep with nuns; with many women.

The Lord showed me these people living in fornication, and the Word says that no fornicator will inherit His Kingdom. As I was watching all of this, the Lord told me, “Look daughter, all of this which I am showing you is what goes on, what he lived and what keeps on happening among many people, among many priests and popes existing.”

Then he told me, “Daughter, go and tell humanity that it’s time to turn to Me.”

Prepare to Meet your God

YouTube - Pope John Paul II is in Hell




edit on 14-9-2012 by Murgatroid because: Added link



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


Hey Murgatroid,

What are your feelings on bearing false witness?

What do you think is more likely, that the person relating that story is A) Lying, B) Mentally Unstable or C) Accurate in their description?


Eric



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 11:23 PM
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The Catholic "Church" teaches absolutely CONTRARY to the word of God.

No, read the entire thread. We've given ample evidence to the contrary.

The head of the Catholic Church is Christ Himself. The entire liturgy of the Mass is very much biblical and according to the Word of G-d. The sacraments are biblical. The consecration during Mass is very biblical, and a direct order from Christ Himself.

So, no, you do not know what you are stating here.



They teach that salvation comes only through the Roman Catholic Church.


Salvation comes only through Christ. Incidentally, Christ is Head of the Church. He founded it, and he still rules it.

Despite attempts by the Devil to destroy the Church through infiltration, it still stands despite these attacks.



As the Lord was speaking, I began to see how this man received multitudes of coins and bills; money, all of which he would keep. He had so much money. I saw images of this man seated on a throne, but I was also able to see beyond that. While it’s true that these people do not get married, I can assure you, I’m not making this up; the Lord showed it to me, those people do sleep with nuns; with many women.


This is, perhaps, the most anti-Catholic, bigoted, evil, and disgusting accusation in this thread, and completely false. Pope John Paul II was a humble servant of G-d, and was the furthest from being involved in "schemes" to acquire money. He lead a prayerful, humble life, and was an inspiration to Catholics worldwide for decades based on his prayerful, humble, kind, and generous leadership qualities.

Pope John Paul II was a very public figure. Reading any of the popular biographies written by scholars and theologians that have studied his life closely would clearly refute these bogus charges.

These are false accusations from the Devil himself. The Great Deceiver using religious language to make false accusations.
edit on 14-9-2012 by CookieMonster09 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by EricD
What are your feelings on bearing false witness?

Two words: Catholic Deception


"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

I HIGHLY recommend listening very closely to what Jesus told us about casting stones at others...

The Catholic church is filled with nothing BUT falsehood, lies, and deceptions.

If you can''t see it, ask the Lord to remove the plank from your eyes.

THE FUNDAMENTAL LIES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 01:22 AM
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From your "Fundamental Lies..." link:




He shows how Catholics are first citizens of the Vatican, then citizens of the Nations wherein they were born, second: That they are bound to respect the ecclesiastical commandments, their canons and dogmas first, laws imposed on their conscience from the moment of baptism as an infant until death. And that they must confirm them as divine laws and superior to the human laws of any government.


1) The first allegation, Catholics being citizens of the Vatican, is flatly false. If I was a citizen of the Vatican, I'd know. Seriously, just go ask any Catholic if they're a citizen of the Vatican and prepare for the very confused look.

2) We are CATHOLICS first, not citizens of the Vatican, and citizens of our respective nations second because GOD's Law trumps man's law; however, unless a law is directly contradictory to God's law, i.e. Obamacare, we are not only expected to follow said law, but exhorted to follow said law. The phrasing "citizens of our respective nations second" is actually a very insufficient way to describe the situation, as there is no Catholic passport, or citizenship in reality, as citizenship is understood by your link. As of 2011, Vatican City had ~572 citizens and 800 people total... with only 220 dwelling there in actuality. (www.zenit.org...)

For a global entity, the Vatican in total runs on a very, very shoestring budget.



The Holy See ran a deficit of nearly €15 million ($18.6 million) in 2011, the largest shortfall in recent years.

After posting a surplus of €9.8 million in 2010, the Vatican budget showed the red ink that had also appeared in the three previous years, the latest figures show.

After a July 3-4 meeting of the council of cardinals who supervise Vatican financial affairs, the Holy See released budget figures for 2011, explaining that the deficit was attributable to “the negative trend of global financial markets, which made it impossible to achieve the goals laid down in the budget.” In light of worldwide financial problems, Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Vatican press office, remarked that the result “does not surprise anyone.” Although the Vatican’s return on investments dropped sharply in 2011, donations increased by 7.5%. Gifts to the Peter’s Pence collection, which had fallen in 2010, rebounded by $2 million, from $67.7 million to $69.7 million—although they still remained well short of the figure for 2009. Contributions from dioceses rose by $5 million to $32 million (Note added by me- this is from the entire global diocesan structure... piddling, really.). The Holy See also received a €49 million ($60 million) gift from the Vatican bank, the Institute for Religious Works.

The expenses of the Holy See consist mainly of personnel costs, for the people working in the Roman Curia, and communications costs. The offices of the Holy See produce very little revenue, relying on donations and investment income to defray annual expenses.

The government of the Vatican city-state, which keeps a separate budget, produced a surplus of €21.8 million ($27 million) for 2011. The city-state maintains the Vatican Museums, which saw a €9 million boost in revenue as more than 5 million visitors passed through the Vatican collections in 2011.

www.catholicculture.org...


Its report said the Holy See saw revenues of 245.2m euros (£222m; $356m) against expenses of 235.3m in 2010.

But annual donations from churches worldwide - known as Peter's Pence - were down nearly $15m to $67.7.

The separately administered Vatican City State also made a 21m-euro profit due to strong ticket sales at the Vatican Museums.

The Vatican lost 4m euros in 2009 and was also in the red in 2008 and 2007.

Most of the Vatican's outlay is to cover the activities of Pope Benedict XVI (ya know, like traveling all over the world and its associated cost of travel and security, etc), and services such as Vatican Radio which is broadcast on five continents in 40 different languages.

The Vatican began publishing annual financial reports in 1981 when Pope John Paul II set out to challenge perceptions that the Vatican was rich.

www.bbc.co.uk...

----
Please, tell me a global entity that does things at the level the Vatican does, including media broadcasts in 40 languages on 5 continents, operating world famous museums, and with only 800 people at "HQ", only 220 actual citizens, and ~352 around the world-- all on a budget that is ridiculously low for its scope of operations. It's like God is nudging things along or something.
edit on 15-9-2012 by Augustine62 because: close tag



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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Two words: Catholic Deception


...followed by a link to an anti-Catholic bigot. Heck, the author isn't even an Islamic scholar.

Funny how the only evidence for this anti-Catholic bigotry is from people who aren't theologians, or even religious scholars. The best these bigots can do is quote from other anti-Catholic bigots with no credentials whatsoever.



The Catholic church is filled with nothing BUT falsehood, lies, and deceptions. If you can''t see it, ask the Lord to remove the plank from your eyes.

More bigotry. How very religious of you to condemn the few billion adherents to Catholic faith.

Your comments are followed by a link to a well-known anti-Catholic bigot, Avro Manhattan. Only this time, instead of being Islamic, Avro is of Jewish extraction.

You're covering the full gamut of anti-Catholic bigotry in this thread, eh? It's so hard to take you seriously when you link to web sites filled with hate, bigotry, and outright falsehoods about Catholicism from sources that have no theological nor academic credentials whatsoever.






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