Does the Catholic Church teach from the Bible?

Originally posted by SolarIce
reply to post by truejew

 

we take our bodies to the afterall now?! I gotta remember to throw on a hoodie and my skate shoes then...and to think I wanted to be dressed neatly

Yes. When Jesus raised from the dead, His body was no longer in the tomb.

Originally posted by SolarIce

seriously do you know anything of the religion your breaking down? Your name imply s your Jewish, so I would guess thats your expertise, not catholicism...

Yes, I know the enemies of Christ.

The Church is the only valid Judaism.

Originally posted by Seede
reply to post by truejew

 

When a person dies the body returns to this earth and never rises again. To believe otherwise is not of Jesus but Judaic custom.

When Jesus was raised, His body was not found in the tomb.

"5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you." (Matthew 28:5-7 KJV)

Originally posted by Seede

Jesus teaches that the dead flesh, bone, and blood is gone forever and will never be allowed into the celestial kingdom. Only the spiritual body remains and it is the spiritual body which is judged,

1Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

The body is changed into a spiritual body in a twinkling of an eye at the Coming of Christ.

reply to post by truejew


truejew
Yes you are correct when you say Jesus' body was never found. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and not of man or woman. Mary was used as a vessel for his entry into this world but that was all. She is blessed above all women but she did not conceive Jesus. Jesus had no earthly mother or father and was conceived by celestial substance (whatever that is). Every living organism returns to its original state in death and Jesus returned to His original state. That is why you nor I can understand the celestial substance.

You also wrote
Quote - "The body is changed into a spiritual body in a twinkling of an eye at the Coming of Christ" Un Quote

If you mean that the living body at the time of the coming of Christ is changed in the twinkle of an eye then yes you are correct according to scripture. .

If you mean that a person who has been dead and in the grave is changed in a twinkle of an eye then no that is not true. The dead body has gone back to the earth and will never have any part in a future life.

As a person dies, that person whether righteous or unrighteous becomes a spiritual body. That spiritual body is immediately judged and sentenced. It then becomes either a naked spiritual body in hell or a celestial spiritual body in the kingdom of heaven. By naked is meant that a unsaved soul will never have the celestial covering that the saved soul shall have in the kingdom of heaven.

Once the terrestrial body is buried, it is forever gone back to its terrestrial elements only to be burned at the final day along with all terrestrial elements both earthly and heavenly. That means that this entire universe will roll up like a scroll and be destroyed back into whatever substance it came from.

Originally posted by Seede
reply to post by truejew

 

truejew
Yes you are correct when you say Jesus' body was never found. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and not of man or woman. Mary was used as a vessel for his entry into this world but that was all. She is blessed above all women but she did not conceive Jesus. Jesus had no earthly mother or father and was conceived by celestial substance (whatever that is). Every living organism returns to its original state in death and Jesus returned to His original state. That is why you nor I can understand the celestial substance.

What you are teaching, that Christ did not have humanity, is the heresy of Gnosticism. Paul wrote against it.

I am not surprised since the trinity is descended from Gnosticism.

Originally posted by Seede

If you mean that the living body at the time of the coming of Christ is changed in the twinkle of an eye then yes you are correct according to scripture. .

If you mean that a person who has been dead and in the grave is changed in a twinkle of an eye then no that is not true. The dead body has gone back to the earth and will never have any part in a future life.

A body is a body, whether alive or buried. All bodies will be changed to spiritual bodies.

How about the Catholic church give us their 10 commandments and see how this compares to the 10 commandments in the Bible for starters....This is the Divine Law of God...has the Catholic church faithfully preserved it?

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
How about the Catholic church give us their 10 commandments and see how this compares the the 10 commandments in the Bible for starters....

Funny name. Reminds me of this thing I saw on a blog: "This great Pope can bring both Anglicans and the SSPX back into the Church, but even he can't make the Jesuits Catholic again!" LOL. Sad, though, as St. Ignatius of Loyola was a great man and the Jesuits were amazing until they were infiltrated by Marxists and homosexuals-- theirs is an academic order, and Fr. Malachi Martin was one. It's rare for them to not achieve PhD's, including multiple ones.

As for your challenge, this article will answer all...

www.fisheaters.com...

reply to post by Augustine62


What happened to keeping the Sabbath Day? Who gave the Catholic Church charge to change the day from Sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown) the 7th day of the week to Sunday the 1st day of the week?

reply to post by Augustine62

There's still a "black Pope" and the SMOM - sovereign military order of malta, who are trained at Jesuit Universities and inhabit positions of power everywhere you look, who's members founded the CIA of all things. There's a lot of crazy and oftentimes wicked things connected to the Vatican to this day - not that I'm trying to demonize anyone in particular, only pointing out the strong impulse and desire by the RCC to have access to intelligence and raw, temporal power. Henry Kissenger is a hired political appointee to the Pope for pete's sake. At the highest level, they appear to play both sides of the fence from what I can tell.

Originally posted by truejew
It's not my interpretation. It's what Scripture teaches.

Um .. no. Read the link. Scripture states that those who have gone before us absolutely do hear us and are involved with what is going on here on earth. Read the link. It's all there ..

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
What happened to keeping the Sabbath Day?

Oh gosh .. you're a seventh day adventist? Look .. any supposed 'loving God' isn't going to damn people to hell simply because they make Sunday as their main day to worship Him rather than Saturday.

reply to post by FlyersFan


We are exploring on this thread if the teachings of the Catholic church are Bible based or otherwise.....not if you think one is going to heaven or turn to ashes.

By your own measure...'any supposed loving God' wouldn't required everyone be a Catholic in order to make it to Heaven but that is what the Catholic church teaches

Do you not teach that the wages of sin is death either Romans 6:23

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Christ fulfilled the Law (the Old Covenant was promised fulfillment in the Messiah, which is Christ); Christ did not abolish the Law, but fulfilled it. The New Covenant observes that which was promised in the Old, and this nuance is tricky, as it can lead to the erroneous misunderstanding of Supersessionism which posits God as a trickster and liar in effect. In fact, the New was always alluded to in the Old via typology. Jeremiah 31: 31-32:

[31] Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: [32] Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master." Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.

Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.

Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.

1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.

Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says "let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath."

2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of "another day," which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, which was on Sunday.

Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.

Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ.

Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.
Source: www.scripturecatholic.com...
------

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by truejew
It's not my interpretation. It's what Scripture teaches.

Um .. no. Read the link. Scripture states that those who have gone before us absolutely do hear us and are involved with what is going on here on earth. Read the link. It's all there ..

I don't read Catholic tracts to get doctrine. If you think you have Scripture proof feel free to post the Scripture(s) here.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

We are exploring on this thread if the teachings of the Catholic church are Bible based or otherwise.....not if you think one is going to heaven or turn to ashes.
By your own measure...'any supposed loving God' wouldn't required everyone be a Catholic in order to make it to Heaven but that is what the Catholic church teaches

Do you not teach that the wages of sin is death either Romans 6:23

edit on 23-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

Yes, there is no Salvation outside the Church... however, this has a nuance which is largely misunderstood.

It does not mean that only those to are (for lack of a better term) "visibly" Catholic go to Heaven, but that having attained Salvation, if in line with the Natural Law (cf. Romans 2) or by Baptism+Natural Law (Protestants), or whatever, they have attained Salvation through Christ (Catechism of the Catholic Church #846) who is joined to His Bride, the Church, which means all in Heaven will be Catholic no matter what false religion they had been in. This is to say, more simply, they are not saved BY their false religion, but IN it. This is why Romans 2 is important, as having no law established by Faith, non-Catholics (earth time) who are saved (eternity-- not linear time, but being), will have attained salvation through Christ, who is the Head of the Church. Salvation realized is in eternity, which is why are are commanded to work out our salvation in fear and trembling here in time: no "accepting" Jesus and do whatever you want junk.

All in heaven will be Catholic, but not all were Catholic in that very tangible sense on earth; rather, through the law God has placed in all human hearts, they have responded and are saved as all true Law leading to God is from Christ.

This is why the little pygmy in Africa isn't going to Hell unless he breaks said law. God provides all mankind with what is needed to attain salvation, but mankind must, as individuals, accept salvation.

Cf. Baltimore Catechism #3- Questions 510-513, Catecism of Pope Saint Pius X Question 27-29, and "Open Letter to Confused Catholics" by Abp. Marcel Lefebvre, Chapter 10, "Ecumenism".

reply to post by Augustine62


Thank you for your post... will answer it fully tomorrow and present you with some interesting Catholic Church quotes that officially go against the implied authority laid out in your response....off for the night -

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by truejew
It's not my interpretation. It's what Scripture teaches.

Um .. no. Read the link. Scripture states that those who have gone before us absolutely do hear us and are involved with what is going on here on earth. Read the link. It's all there ..

I don't read Catholic tracts to get doctrine. If you think you have Scripture proof feel free to post the Scripture(s) here.

There's actually too many example to post here... but this site has the SCRIPTURES listed... so, same difference since I could just as easily copy and paste and take up massive amounts of space:

www.scripturecatholic.com...-III

A body is a body, whether alive or buried. All bodies will be changed to spiritual bodies.

reply to post by truejew


truejew

Yes all earthly bodies will be changed and die and rot back into the earth. Then the spiritual body is exposed. When Christ comes again for the gathering of the righteous souls, those righteous living bodies will drop dead and the spiritual body will be immediately changed to celestial bodies and enter the kingdom of God. They have received judgment or they would not be taken up in the gathering. The living people who are not taken up are unrighteous and are left here on this earth.

But --- t1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Today as people die one by one (because the gathering has not yet happened), the minute they die their souls face judgment and a sentence. They are all spiritual bodies but only the righteous spiritual souls are then resurrected into celestial souls and enter the kingdom of heaven. The unrighteous souls are spiritual bodies and are cast into hell.

Yes, everyone will have a spiritual body but everyone will not have a celestial body. When hell is cast into the lake of fire , that means that those unrighteous spiritual bodies, which are in hell, are cast into the lake of fire. But they are not celestial spiritual bodies. The old flesh, bone, and blood bodies are gone back to the earth and will never be known again. These old earthy bodies do not resurrect in a day of judgment. That belief is Judaic and not of Jesus. .

You might be mistaken as to believe that the body you have now will be changed but that is not what Jesus teaches. The body you now have will die and decompose back into this earth. When Jesus gathers the righteous people, their physical bodies will drop dead and their spiritual bodies will be changed into celestial bodies. That is the change that I believe you are confused about, Some Christians are conditioned to believe that the physical body disappears and is changed into a heavenly body. That is not scriptural. That is hollywood.

I don't quite understand what you mean by trinity. I have never mentioned a trinity in our discussions. actually I have reservations concerning a triune God Head. I do not see a third entity in Jesus' teachings. My belief is that the holy Spirit is just that. It is the same wording as the Holy Ghost. My understanding is that the Holy Spirit is God. I see no other spiritual God other than the Father of Christ. Now that is my own belief and not to be dogmatic as to say that my theology is the only right theology. In fact all of this is nothing but my understanding. I could be wrong just the same as any other person can be wrong. But to my knowledge I am not agnostic by any stretch of the imagination.

The substance of Christ was celestial and not terrestrial. How is that agnostic? After Jesus was put to death He appeared and ate with His apostles. Doesn't that teach you that He has power of life within Himself? When His friend Lazarus fell ill and died, didn't Jesus restore Lazarus to his former self? Jesus transcended all natural laws because He was celestial from heaven to the womb and to His death. His genetics were of heavenly substance just as is taught that He was conceived by God. He was not changed into a celestial soul because He was always a celestial soul. Now that did not change the fact that He submitted his flesh to die in the manner that it did. He suffered just as you and I would suffer and His pain in the flesh was just as much pain as you or I would feel. His flesh died the same as ours will die. But it ends there because He then returned to His original substance which was the substance of the Holy Spirit. You must accept this as the Apostles taught because you nor I will ever figure it out. The empty tomb is the proof.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
How about the Catholic church give us their 10 commandments and see how this compares to the 10 commandments in the Bible for starters....This is the Divine Law of God...has the Catholic church faithfully preserved it?

edit on 23-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

Seeing as how they are the 10 commandments from the Bible, I'd say that they compare pretty well.

Eric

Originally posted by Augustine62

There's actually too many example to post here... but this site has the SCRIPTURES listed... so, same difference since I could just as easily copy and paste and take up massive amounts of space:

www.scripturecatholic.com...-III

Just post a few of the Scriptures then. Sending me to a Catholic website for their opinion of what a Scripture is saying isn't proof. I want Scripture to Speak for itself.

All this thread seems to be doing now is showing how small differences in what is a same religious group still causes so much contempt between people. If you believe Jesus was the son of God your a Christian, wether Catholic, Protestant or orthodox, same as if you believe Mohammed was the last prophet sent by Allah makes you a Muslim wether you are Sunni or Shia. Says a lot about how humanity has "progressed" since a couple thousand of years ago how enlightened we are now as opposed to back then!!!!

Originally posted by Seede
reply to post by truejew

 

Yes all earthly bodies will be changed and die and rot back into the earth. Then the spiritual body is exposed.

Those who are dead, their bodies will be reformed as spiritual bodies. Those who are alive, their bodies will be changed to spiritual bodies. There will be no bodies left in the grave.

Originally posted by Seede

Today as people die one by one (because the gathering has not yet happened), the minute they die their souls face judgment and a sentence.

Judgement taking place at multiple times is not Scriptual. Judgement at one time after the coming of Christ is.

Originally posted by Seede

How is that agnostic?

Gnosticism, not the same as agnostic, teaches that Jesus did not have a human body.

Originally posted by Seede

You must accept this as the Apostles taught because you nor I will ever figure it out. The empty tomb is the proof.

The Apostles taught that Jesus had a human body and the Gnostics who taught Jesus did not have a human body were anti-christ.

"3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1 John 4:3-4 KJV)

The body of Jesus was the same as our bodies. His human body was changed into a spiritual body as our bodies will be. His human body did not remain in the tomb as our bodies will not remain in their graves.

Mary, is still in her grave and cannot hear prayers. If someone is answering prayers in her name, they are demons. Catholics are being deceived.